Small Observations General Thread (things not worth separate threads)

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Feels like it unlocks at Shipbuilding to me. Given the techs that appear before/after it. If that’s the case, there’s still a race for the new world.
I feel like it will be at Cartography and that icon with the anchor might symbolize it. I think the Age of Exploration's inspiration starts less with crossing the Atlantic Ocean, but more likely the various voyages of the Indian and Pacific Ocean from Eastern cultures, which happened way earlier.
 
I feel like it will be at Cartography and that icon with the anchor might symbolize it. I think the Age of Exploration's inspiration starts less with crossing the Atlantic Ocean, but more likely the various voyages of the Indian and Pacific Ocean from Eastern cultures, which happened way earlier.
A white icon with no background appears to be a unit unlock in Civ7. An ability would be a plus-shaped icon. Shipbuilding has the Caravel/Carrack and an ability, the icon for which appears to indicate a unit upgrade (little person with up arrow), so it does seem like a good candidate for the deep water transit unlock... especially since the Caravel tech is traditionally the one that does it.

(Civ7 doesn't seem to care much about the name of the tech being appropriate to what it unlocks.)
 
A white icon with no background appears to be a unit unlock in Civ7. An ability would be a plus-shaped icon. Shipbuilding has the Caravel/Carrack and an ability, the icon for which appears to indicate a unit upgrade (little person with up arrow), so it does seem like a good candidate for the deep water transit unlock... especially since the Caravel tech is traditionally the one that does it.

(Civ7 doesn't seem to care much about the name of the tech being appropriate to what it unlocks.)

Although it's not impossible that the Mastery version of Cartography is related to navigating across open waters. The Carrack-like unit unlocked at Shipbuilding might just be better at it.
 
A white icon with no background appears to be a unit unlock in Civ7. An ability would be a plus-shaped icon. Shipbuilding has the Caravel/Carrack and an ability, the icon for which appears to indicate a unit upgrade (little person with up arrow), so it does seem like a good candidate for the deep water transit unlock... especially since the Caravel tech is traditionally the one that does it.

(Civ7 doesn't seem to care much about the name of the tech being appropriate to what it unlocks.)
I'd also like to point out there seems to be missing icon instances (there's random gaps in certain techs in the list).
 
Although it's not impossible that the Mastery version of Cartography is related to navigating across open waters. The Carrack-like unit unlocked at Shipbuilding might just be better at it.
Anything's possible, but the Mastery techs are supposed to be optional. Deep water navigation doesn't seem optional.
 
Anything's possible, but the Mastery techs are supposed to be optional. Deep water navigation doesn't seem optional.
Since the Exploration Age is also about Organized Religion, it is possible you'll want to stay home and dominate the old world. Besides, if you see you're mostly landlocked, or adjacent to the wrong part of the ocean to easily traverse, it might not be worth it to explore the new world.
 
Since the Exploration Age is also about Organized Religion, it is possible you'll want to stay home and dominate the old world. Besides, if you see you're mostly landlocked, or adjacent to the wrong part of the ocean to easily traverse, it might not be worth it to explore the new world.
I figured someone would say something like that.

Allow me to rephrase: mastery techs are supposed to be optional improvements to the underlying tech. Deep water navigation doesn't seem like an optional improvement to an underlying tech.
 
I figured someone would say something like that.

Allow me to rephrase: mastery techs are supposed to be optional improvements to the underlying tech. Deep water navigation doesn't seem like an optional improvement to an underlying tech.
That's assuming Deep water mastery isn't also available at Shipbuilding

Having 2 possibilities
Cartography mastery allows you to start exploring early (ie 2 "techs" in v 6 techs in for shipbuilding))
and Shipbuilding lets you start actually colonizing with armies (while also enabling

Seems possible

What might be more likely:
Cartography Mastery lets you "hop" ie you can do the Viking route to the new world
Shipbuilding lets you take the Columbus route

Finally, hopefully it won't entirely be a race for the new world, it might be a better investment to build up at home maybe weaken some neighbors.
 
That's assuming Deep water mastery isn't also available at Shipbuilding

Having 2 possibilities
Cartography mastery allows you to start exploring early (ie 2 "techs" in v 6 techs in for shipbuilding))
and Shipbuilding lets you start actually colonizing with armies (while also enabling

Seems possible

What might be more likely:
Cartography Mastery lets you "hop" ie you can do the Viking route to the new world
Shipbuilding lets you take the Columbus route

Finally, hopefully it won't entirely be a race for the new world, it might be a better investment to build up at home maybe weaken some neighbors.
Deep Water Navigation of any kind was only marginally available before the Exploration Age.

Yes, Roman, Greek, and Indian sailors sailed from the Egyptian Red Sea coast to India and back, but much of that was along the Arabian and Iranian coasts (Note that Alexander sent his fleet commander back along the coast from India long before the Romans ever got their feet wet or any known Greek was sailing the Red Sea). Likewise, the big grain freighters used by Imperial Rome sailed between Ostia/Naples and Alexandria in Egypt, but again the route was either Italy - Sicily- North African coast to Egypt or Italy - Dalmatian/Greek coast to the Levant to Egypt. Even in the Mediterranean there was very little 'open ocean' Classical sailing.

What is true is that Long Distance Coastal Navigation was possible. We are fairly certain now that classical Phoenician and Greek sailers circumnavigated Africa and sailed the North Sea as far as Norway and possibly circumnavigated the British Isles (they accurately described its overall shape, anyway). They may have been 'hugging the coast' but they were hugging a Lot of coast. Trade Routes from the Bronze Age were traced from Mesopotamia through the Mediterranean and up the Atlantic coast to Cornwall in England. Again, a lot of coast-hugging going on, and good enough at it to make the trade route profitable, which excessive losses would have made impossible (there were always the alternative metal sources of Afghanistan and Spain if the sea route was suffering a high percentage of losses)

So, 'Cartography' or 'Ship Building" (preferably the latter) could make some kind of extended distance sailing possible (possibly represented by extending or establishing Sea Trade Routes)

Another possibility, with Cartography, would be a Half-Way Measure: you can sail into a Ocean tile, but only if you end your turn in a Coastal Tile, and then have Ocean Tiles along the coast: Presto! Your ships are severely limited in how far they can sail without some additional Tech. (I freely admit this is inspired by Humankind, which does have Deep Water tiles right along the coast, seriously curtailing any sea travel early in the game)
 
Since the Exploration Age is also about Organized Religion, it is possible you'll want to stay home and dominate the old world. Besides, if you see you're mostly landlocked, or adjacent to the wrong part of the ocean to easily traverse, it might not be worth it to explore the new world.
this has been suggested to be the real-world reason why the ottomans abandoned the idea of new world colonies, so this feels pretty fair to include.
 
this has been suggested to be the real-world reason why the ottomans abandoned the idea of new world colonies, so this feels pretty fair to include.
That, and the fact that the Ocean Navigation explorations were started primarily because the Ottomans, among others, had cut off Europe from desired goods from the Orient.

It's easy to forget that there was extensive land (Silk Road) and sea (Egypt to India) trade during Imperial Roman classical times, to the point where there were worries about Rome exporting too much silver in payment for spices and other luxuries from India and Southeast Asia. That trade died with the western Roman Empire, but was revived after 1000 CE.

When that trade was blocked by the Ottoman's rise, nobody in power in Europe was willing to just say, "Oh well, back to salted beef and turnips." They started financing Expeditions looking for Ways Around - Africa was the Main Direction, but there were also expeditions to Arctic Russia (which got no further than Murmansk) and, a real 'Long Shot' - across the Atlantic, which after a twisted path paid off in the end.
 
Was that trade even really blocked by the Ottomans if they were trading on a massive scale themselves, and they were often in friendly relations with many European powers? Most notably France, but Commonwealth was also often on good terms with Ottomans, England and Netherlands had no reasons to fight them, and even Italian states traded with them all the time. Besides, Atlantic caravel expeditions began way before the Ottoman conquest of Egypt (1519) which would be required to truly "cut off trade with Asia" (which brings back the original question, why would Mamluks trade but not Ottomans - the former brutally fought crusades, the latter were allied to France).
 
Was that trade even really blocked by the Ottomans if they were trading on a massive scale themselves, and they were often in friendly relations with many European powers? Most notably France, but Commonwealth was also often on good terms with Ottomans, England and Netherlands had no reasons to fight them, and even Italian states traded with them all the time. Besides, Atlantic caravel expeditions began way before the Ottoman conquest of Egypt (1519) which would be required to truly "cut off trade with Asia" (which brings back the original question, why would Mamluks trade but not Ottomans - the former brutally fought crusades, the latter were allied to France).
Absolutely right, and I should clarify.

The Spice Trade was what drove the Indian Ocean sea trade between Indonesia, south India, Sri Lanka, southern Arabia and Egypt.

After Rome fell out of it in the 5th century CE, Arab and Indonesian sailors took over, but the market for luxury goods like spices in western Europe flat-lined - the trade was all with Byzantium/Constantinople and the Middle East. By the time western Europe was a decent market again, after the 8th - 9th centuries CE, the trade across the Mediterranean was dominated by the Italian City States, especially Venice, Genoa, and to a lesser extent Pisa, Ancona, and Ragusa.

As stated, the Italians traded extensively with Caliphate, later Ottoman, Egyptian and southern Arabia tribes. The problem was, they held a monopoly at the selling end in Europe, and as sea trade developed after 1000 CE in northern and western Europe, the non-Italians increasingly wanted to break that monopoly and get their hands directly on the enormous profits to be made. As they developed ships with better long-distance capabilities, like the Portuguese Ballingers (the direct ancestors of the Caravels) Portugal took the lead in expeditions down the African coast, 'around' the direct Mediterranean routes dominated by the Venetians and Genoese.

I should have made it clear, the problem was not conflict with the Arab/Ottoman world or polities, but with the European 'Middle-men' in Italy. The original European historians' assumption was that it was part of the Christian-Islamic conflicts, but that has been thoroughly debunked by, among others, Braudel's research into Mediterranean trade in the late middle ages. The internal conflict (among 'Christian' states) continued as Portugal got around Africa first and started (no later than 1507 CE) a concerted effort to gain an absolute monopoly on Indian Ocean trade that would, basically, cut off traffic through the Mediterranean completely before the goods even got there. That led the Spanish to look for alternatives, which led directly to financing Columbus' cross-Atlantic voyage(s).

The fact remains, it was the search for alternatives to the 'old' routes of trade through the middle east (especially from southern Arabia and Egypt) and across the Mediterranean that led to the development of longer-range sailing and cross-ocean exploration by Europeans. Without the goal of major profits to be made from that trade, the expeditions never would have been funded.
 
Starved for new content, I have made possibly the most minor and inconsequential observation possible: the gameplay reveal trailer on the Australian channel of Playstation (of all things I got recommended on the front page of Youtube) differs in at least one shot:
Spoiler :
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The jerseys don't match! Why would they not? Why would Egypt get Australia's primary jersey on the Australian Playstation chanel? All I know is that I have too much free time on my hands...
 
Starved for new content, I have made possibly the most minor and inconsequential observation possible: the gameplay reveal trailer on the Australian channel of Playstation (of all things I got recommended on the front page of Youtube) differs in at least one shot:

The jerseys don't match! Why would they not? Why would Egypt get Australia's primary jersey on the Australian Playstation chanel? All I know is that I have too much free time on my hands...
was yellow and green not the primary jersey for egypt in civ 6 or am i imagining things
 
was yellow and green not the primary jersey for egypt in civ 6 or am i imagining things
Yeah, you're right, my mind made a different association at first, Australia got my head mixed up
 
Starved for new content, I have made possibly the most minor and inconsequential observation possible: the gameplay reveal trailer on the Australian channel of Playstation (of all things I got recommended on the front page of Youtube) differs in at least one shot:

The jerseys don't match! Why would they not? Why would Egypt get Australia's primary jersey on the Australian Playstation chanel? All I know is that I have too much free time on my hands...
I think what's likely is that you also choose your colors at the beginning of the game, that way your empire's colors are also consistent across the game.
Also, if you look closely Rome's purple is darker in the Australia one too and the harbor placement is different, so it has to have been a different game.
 
I think what's likely is that you also choose your colors at the beginning of the game, that way your empire's colors are also consistent across the game.
Also, if you look closely Rome's purple is darker in the Australia one too and the harbor placement is different, so it has to have been a different game.
I agree. Also the jersey and roof colors roughly correspond too.
 
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