So how is your current game going?

[SuperNoobCamper]

I'd put Zulu above Mongolia now (skirmisher doctrine really hurts Mongolia), below Songhai, and evenish with Sweden?

Promoted Zulu infantry are probably best in class now, but getting there requires work. Zure a ticking time bomb from a military perspective, kind of like Korea with late game science. Songhai and other early game warmongers can take Zulu out before it gets going. Zulu needs units with the full Buffalo line and then some upgrades to really roll.

I haven't played against a Zulu AI yet to see whether the AI is picking the Buffalo line.

I partially agree with you, they are more of mid game warmongers which is kind of weird given they need to be constantly in war to level up their melee units but they are neither particularly strong militarily in the early game nor have any bonuses towards anything other than leveling up their melee units to compensate for it.
Sure their Impis are absolutely the strongest land melee unit in the game by a far margin but surviving till renaissance with no bonuses to anything is just not particularly good in my Book compared to other strong warmongers.
on the other hand if you look at Sweden, Mongolia, Songhai, The Aztecs even Iroquois and Inca with their movement bonuses in rough terrain or Denmark with their funky pillage and runaway thing they all get direct bonuses to warfare (GG bonus, Siege weapons movement, attack bonus in case of Sweden, Steppe nomads for Mongolia, Songhai, The Inca, Iroquois movement in rough terrain and extra gold for capturing cities/barb camps for Songhai) that's available from the very beginning of the game and get their early game of snowballing going.
Don't get me wrong, i really like the current Zulus kit as it's extremely fun and satisfying to min/max but it's more difficult for the AI to use properly.

 

[tothePAIN]

I partially agree with you, they are more of mid game warmongers which is kind of weird given they need to be constantly in war to level up their melee units but they are neither particularly strong militarily in the early game nor have any bonuses towards anything other than leveling up their melee units to compensate for it.
Sure their Impis are absolutely the strongest land melee unit in the game by a far margin but surviving till renaissance with no bonuses to anything is just not particularly good in my Book compared to other strong warmongers.
on the other hand if you look at Sweden, Mongolia, Songhai, The Aztecs even Iroquois and Inca with their movement bonuses in rough terrain or Denmark with their funky pillage and runaway thing they all get direct bonuses to warfare (GG bonus, Siege weapons movement, attack bonus in case of Sweden, Steppe nomads for Mongolia, Songhai, The Inca, Iroquois movement in rough terrain and extra gold for capturing cities/barb camps for Songhai) that's available from the very beginning of the game and get their early game of snowballing going.
Don't get me wrong, i really like the current Zulus kit as it's extremely fun and satisfying to min/max but it's more difficult for the AI to use properly.

It's an overstatement to say that they have no bonuses to anything - they also have an XP reduction for promotions, which is key to their warmongering. They can have a Fully promoted Buffalo line Swordsman at only 45 xp, which is very attainable.

I agree that they aren't a strong warmonger early on - they really take off in the mid game after armories. Orders are huge for them. Once the buffalo line gets going, they can have very strong infantry units. Its balanced out because their other units may not be highly promoted, like Sweden's units.

I ended up going Tradition / Statecraft / Imperialism / Autocracy with them in a game to found early and then for the XP quest rewards, which worked out really well. I actually tried to not create very many units, or upgrade them, until I had the Ikanda so that I could promote for the buffalo line.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

had a totally free day today so i sank sometime into another game as Sweden Progress/Fealty that ended really quickly in early renaissance era t316 with domination victory.

Emperor difficulty - small size communitu79 V2.0 terra start - strategic balance - events on - ruins on - Epic speed - 6 civs -12 CSs.
Unlike the Zulus game, this time i had a busted start on floodplains so i had no trouble keeping up in the early game despite having Greece with their Hoplites.
Edit: stole Siam's early settler, a filthy move ... i know but they literally sent it unprotected so they were asking for it i guess

Spoiler Shrine first into Spirit of the desert for an easy religion, Founded 4 cities + a capital with early Petra and called it a day. :

Had a tradition Siam to the North and Progress Carthage in the northernmost part of the original continent, Tradition Greece to the south, Authority Japan to the southeast and Authority Aztecs to the east opposite to me across the big barren desert.
Founded first with COE and Orders and spent some time spreading to Japan and Siam that failed to Found delaying the enhancement till Haghia Sophia while trying to avoid any early unnecessary war with Montezuma due to religion even more giving him gold to stay friends until i'm done with Greece.
Avoided constructing any unnecessary wonders and focused on the absolute necessities like Terracotta, Greatwall (mainly to deny it and also the free GG is nice for Sweden) and Haghia Sophia ... later i built Notre Dam to get a golden age and the Cathedral worked well with Petra in that floodplains start.
Enhanced with Haghia Sophia later with Mosques (was a bad choice retrospectively) and Symbolism (Inquisition was the correct choice retrospectively)
the game truly started when Greece declared war and brought hoplites, used a choke point below Sigtuna to hold them off while composite wear them down.
I knew another war was coming and i won't be able to do anything until i get rid of Alexander so -again- went lower part of the tech tree powered by COE and old faithful Researching Steel, Physics and Machinery then switching to units production before Alexander catches up in tech and it worked.
during the time i spent researching military techs Japan and Greece went to war wearing each other down making both of them extremely vulnerable, Montezuma exploiting the opportunity DOWed Japan then easily taking their capital and their second city leaving them with only one main land city.
had a DP with Tradition Siam immediately above me so i switched to operation taunt and tricked him into DOWing me to avoid fighting Siam and consequently losing all of my trade routes to Carthage that passes through his territory.
after a long war i captured both the OG capital of Japan and the Aztecs Capital and all of the Mainland cities of the Aztecs forcing them to capitulate.
I had a considerable army but i was not sure if i can conquer Siam and their tradition capital yet so turtled a bit and fixed my infrastructure especially the low production cities with some ITR and engineer specialists then waited till gunpowder got me Cannons and the last GG upgraded my Canons to 3 range so i was sure i can do it.
Carthage helped me by DOWing Siam taking down their army but they could not get anywhere near the capital without losing their units so my objective was clear, surround the Capital with tercios to prevent Carthage from stealing it and fire cannons from as far as possible to avoid losing them to capital ranged attack and it fell in like 5 turns.
Carthage was obviously the next target and they knew it starting with denouncing me the spreading their religion to my cities and stealing on of my CS ..... they had an actual army so yet again bee-lined metallurgy to get Hakkapeliitta and Cuirassiers and once it got researched my entire army got upgraded thanks to Crusaders Zeal and in like 7-10 turns of absolutely no resistance against waves of elite cavalry forces Carthage was also
eliminated.

Spoiler Not so optimized conquest, would have done much better with authority and different religious choices but still a fun match. :

Wanted to test the Caroleans but never got a chance tho as the game ended quicker than i thought

 

[andersw]

had a totally free day today so i sank sometime into another game as Sweden Progress/Fealty that ended really quickly in early renaissance era t316 with domination victory.

Wanted to test the Caroleans but never got a chance tho as the game ended quicker than i thought

I have similar issues atm, I stomp on emperor and immortal games I've tried just end up in a stalemate with at best I'm sort of on par in tech grinding endless AI units.
Here as decent 8 city Shaka, god of open sky, hero worship, orders, scholarship (no buildings left to take) and zelotry.
In hindsight Council of elders would possibly have been a bit better.
I got Stonehenge and Terracotta failed one wonder and are now far far away from having even a chance on any more ones.
Incas are 6 techs ahead Brazil 5 (so roughly half an era).

Original idea was to quickly take out brazil, just as I was getting ready and had a decent position authority Inca hit massively.
He did do some missteps and I managed to take one city but in the end I just had to peace out, other faraway AI's dogpiling or more likely bribed like crazy on me.
And my units were taking so so much damage while tickling his.

So looking for advice.
I've considered taking out some (or atleast one) of the 3 citystates around me at southwest but they have a LOT of combat strength but I guess wont restock army like immortal AI.
Gunpowder still 16 turns away so no impis yet and dont want to poke at brazil without those.

Spoiler :

 

[Zarggg]

Let me show you how my current game is going

https://i.imgur.com/eXkEJJT.jpg

 

[tu_79]

Let me show you how my current game is going

https://i.imgur.com/eXkEJJT.jpg

There's a guide for this kind of starts, but you need to realise it earlier that you were isolated. Basically, go for great lighthouse and focus on fast science. Your only advantage is not needing military units for a while.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

I have similar issues atm, I stomp on emperor and immortal games I've tried just end up in a stalemate with at best I'm sort of on par in tech grinding endless AI units.
Here as decent 8 city Shaka, god of open sky, hero worship, orders, scholarship (no buildings left to take) and zelotry.
In hindsight Council of elders would possibly have been a bit better.
I got Stonehenge and Terracotta failed one wonder and are now far far away from having even a chance on any more ones.
Incas are 6 techs ahead Brazil 5 (so roughly half an era).

Original idea was to quickly take out brazil, just as I was getting ready and had a decent position authority Inca hit massively.
He did do some missteps and I managed to take one city but in the end I just had to peace out, other faraway AI's dogpiling or more likely bribed like crazy on me.
And my units were taking so so much damage while tickling his.

So looking for advice.
I've considered taking out some (or atleast one) of the 3 citystates around me at southwest but they have a LOT of combat strength but I guess wont restock army like immortal AI.
Gunpowder still 16 turns away so no impis yet and dont want to poke at brazil without those.

Spoiler :

View attachment 567305

What was your reformation belief? I see you are not doing very well gold-wise which might slow you down when you finally unlock gunpowder for upgrades.
I think you are kind of underestimating your powerspike at gunpowder; level 4 impis are near invincible especially with authority heal on kill .... Cannons devestate cities defenses and you don't seem to have done much conquering so you are not set back by the obscene warmonger fervor ... I think you have really good chances especially against Brazil.
I do think you can try to flip these CS if the difference in influence is not huge but you can try conquering them to neutralize as many enemies as you can before going to the more important conflict.

 

[andersw]

While I went to hammer on LaVenta Brazil attacked me, I stayed in defensive positions until I got gunpowder then I rolled him hard, really hard.
Vassaled him at one city, the difference with authority and tradition AI is so huge when it comes to reinforcements.
Of course most of the other faraway AI's later dogpiled on me but I took a cs and brazil.
I consider a payback attempt on the Incas, now with a decent amount of impis, musketmen and cannons, probably need another forward citadel but thats the benefit of Heroworship, I get lots of the generals.
Happiness have been down the bottom but a bit better now.
I'm a bit worried long term about Assyria.

 

[andersw]

What was your reformation belief? I see you are not doing very well gold-wise which might slow you down when you finally unlock gunpowder for upgrades.
I think you are kind of underestimating your powerspike at gunpowder; level 4 impis are near invincible especially with authority heal on kill .... Cannons devestate cities defenses and you don't seem to have done much conquering so you are not set back by the obscene warmonger fervor ... I think you have really good chances especially against Brazil.
I do think you can try to flip these CS if the difference in influence is not huge but you can try conquering them to neutralize as many enemies as you can before going to the more important conflict.

I wanted to fill up the land before warmongering, also warmongering too early makes lack of infrastructure to easily backfire.
I probably could have skipped a few cities and done an early rush on brazil but I feel thats a bit cheezy.
Cannons devastate defenses on lower difficulties not as impressive on immortal, there also need to be vision, room and places for defensive units to move in and out.
Yes lvl 4 Impis are awesome vs a lot of AIs, some are however obnoxiously defensive.

But yes a post inbetween where I described the fall of Brazil.

Edit: not been able to reform yet, not enough followers/cities and the religious pressure from the AI have been brutal.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

I wanted to fill up the land before warmongering, also warmongering too early makes lack of infrastructure to easily backfire.
I probably could have skipped a few cities and done an early rush on brazil but I feel thats a bit cheezy.
Cannons devastate defenses on lower difficulties not as impressive on immortal, there also need to be vision, room and places for defensive units to move in and out.
Yes lvl 4 Impis are awesome vs a lot of AIs, some are however obnoxiously defensive.

But yes a post inbetween where I described the fall of Brazil.

Edit: not been able to reform yet, not enough followers/cities and the religious pressure from the AI have been brutal.

I'm kind of intrigued to see how will this game work out, keep us updated.
I have not played Immortal in a long time, Emperor is not so hard and i kind of stomp the AI once i get rolling.

 

[andersw]

I'm kind of intrigued to see how will this game work out, keep us updated.
I have not played Immortal in a long time, Emperor is not so hard and i kind of stomp the AI once i get rolling.

Sure will post a bit more info as the game goes along.
In my previous attempt I did well but ended up in the spanish endless wall of flesh with a lot of coastal cities.
I'm worried something similar could happen with the Incas but we'll see.

I've tried a bit of different lvl up strats for impis but I'm still not sure what is best.
Upgrading Landsknechts and having city assault sure helps the echonomy but in some situations I just cant afford city assault and have to go both stalwart and march before that.
Upgrading sword/longswords is nice for the cover.
Move 4, overrun and a lot of other things are nice but have to wait (on emperor you can basically just go move 4 -> march and just eat up the map) and with the strong and agressive AI's there are barely any room to get quests from CS (for city conquer in particular).

The extra HP from shaka upgrades are very very nice but it doesnt make units immortal.

Oh and when I hit bottom my happy was at 29, I'm back above 40 now.

 

[TaylorItaly]

Really amazing your Mod is now ; with the latest hotfix France , Poland and Japan simultaneously declare war to me.
They robed me two cities. :-(
Then peace treaty and as it ran out , France is again attacking me.
I have really a hard time in this game , but i love it.
It is nearly perfect, maybe i should not play Emporer Difficulty. ;-)

 

[andersw]

Saw I could build great altar, did and reformed with Crusader spirit.
I took out Bratislava (east side in pic) which was allied with Inca, waited with peace on AI's and declared on Inca and then peaced out with other AI's to circumvent pacts.
Impis, muskets and cannons absolutely wrecked the Incas, I quickly took 4 cities + the capital and then vassaled him.
Got Himej, Alhambra, Petra and Cathedral of crap and a nice buffer towards Polynesia.
A lot of Impis with Stalwart, City assault and March.
I completed fealty, religious pressure is still bonkers (I have grand temple) and failed Leaning Tower (austria built it).

Despite that I was last in science (not the case anymore) AI's keeps stealing from me .... spy now moved from inca -> home, would like to prefer to spy on Assyria but cant afford it.
Will take a southern route and declare on the Arabs so I then can go for Assyria.
Assyria is 2 policys ahead and went (authority -> fealty) -> rationalism and have 10 wonders.
Happiness as you can see is an issue, I've started some public works and need to get the courthouses done.
I'm almost considering not to finish rifling, its bad if someone steals it.
I'm fine on tech par with impis.

Austria have 11 votes in WC polynesia is second with 4 ...

This is Pangea with low seas and standard 16 CS.
I have most cities with 17, Assyria 2nd with 9 and Austria is last (not counting vassals) on 5 cities.
Not sure if I want to go industry, rationalism or imperialism but probably have to go imperialism for the cost reduction on unit upgrades.

Main question is how long I can roll with impis, they get a lot weaker when they upgrade and drop the spear throw.
Good thing is that no AI have a very late super powerful UU.

There's been complaints that all AI goes authority, here AIs went
Assyria Authority - Fealty - Rationalism
Celts Progress - Fealty
Austria Tradition - Statecraft
Polynesia Progress - Statecraft
Inca Authority - Statecraft
Arabs Tradition - Artistry
Brazil Tradition - Artistry

Spoiler :

 

[chicorbeef]

I'm still finishing up a game on the June patch, playing Sweden. I'll try the beta as Zulu and compare the two. Sweden is an absolute monster, even on Deity it's fairly easy to just steamroll the opposition, I was warmongering early on with a Spearman/Statue of Zeus rush and kept it going with Pikemen/Caroleans, I've now dominated my Continent and am about to upgrade my Caroleans/Cannons and invade the other continent.

It's a pretty standard domination game, I went God of All Creation, rushed Bronze Working, took Pottery, then rushed Iron Working for Catapults. Rushed Babylon, then stole Morocco's religion, the only religion on the continent, enhanced it with Orders/Zealotry, went back and took Babylon's Capital, then attacked Venice and left them on one city as my third vassal. My policies were Authority-->Fealty, started Imperialism.

I was kind of in support of making Caroleans be a unique Fusilier at Metallurgy, until I'm realizing just now how utterly OP that would be. The Tercio spike is at a good spot right now, especially with the Cannon at the same tech. I probably should have just went Field on all of them for Logistics, I split them between Field/Siege and I'm kind of regretting it now.

 

[arthurF]

Update on the game.

Well, seems like leveled up Impis are invincible, i have not lost a single one even without kill on heal from authority .... The hardest part of the Conquest was crossing that long bridge between China's OG cities and Poland's defenses.

Spoiler When you have +40 melee land units but that's the only way across. :

View attachment 567057

Won a DV, funnily enough i got the last two capitals (Morocco and Germany) in the same turn.

Spoiler T364 on Epic speed DV, not super optimized but was super fun. :

View attachment 567058

Not fair dude. Germany is trying to fight you off with catapults, while you attack with riflemen??

 

[anastazjasz]

Did first testing game on new beta (was finishing my other run, also waiting for planes to be fixed) I guess I didn't expect Spanish Inquisition.

Japan, immortal, communitu 1.17, epic, 15civ/24cs, huge, lower sea, rest standard.

Game finished fast, its turn 136, I've just got religion as 4th, met all the 15 civs I've put into the game, with 11 I'm at war...(some of them also fight each other). Also my happines is 34 so no more units production.

Gandhi (4 cities, tradition) just took one of my cities, he has fielded 11 units which I can see atm, Rome took another city at turn 132, he has 5 cities (authority) and 10 units close to my borders, I have 3 cities and 1 puppet taken from Maya, which just DoW me and is gonna take the city back next turn. My army was 14 units at its peak (used sword&shields decision from event mod).

Also Gandhi manage to take out 2 of my spears (full hp) in one turn (+ GG which I had on forest tile with them), that was impressive.

Considering all it was refreshing experience so I'm gonna tone down a bit.

 

[andersw]

Update on Shaka vs the World.
I rolled over poor Arabia, two smaller cities and capital fell in quick succession -> capitulate.

Moved over towards Assyria, had to conquer Aoteora which already was taken by Budapest so HP was low, one turn to gain nearby land to Assyria.
Forward general and I laid siege to Kanesh, Assyria had quite a massive amount of fieldguns and the land I had to work with was highly annoying desert/desert mountains, rivers without roads, so I had to grab a handful of workers who built roads while I pounded with siege.
A second Citadel towards Assur and then I had to cheese it, worker erase the last and put a third citadel even closer to Assur.
The bad was I lost a bit too many high exp units, I feel its almost inevitable on this lvl but I guess could have been done better.
(of course not remotely close to how many the AI lost)
Assyria is not ready to cap yet, but its close and he's refilling with landsknechts.

I got Sistine Chapel in Kanesh and another 6 wonders from capital, that was only HALF of Assyrias wonder hoard.

Sitting on about 16 fusiliers and 8 field guns with zelotry for refill if needed.
Threw away maybe 4 fusiliers 2 muskets and 2 cuirassiers I think.

I'm two techs behind (managed to steal steampower) assyria who have gatling guns.
I'll be first to archeology, its good for happiness which btw is doing far better than normal, probably because of a slower city capture pace.
I expect the rest to be a mop up if I cap Assyria.

With the help of an engineer I managed to build Neuschwanstein, the first wonder I got after Terracotta (I also got stonehenge).

I went Imperialism and I'm equal at the top with 3 policys in (I was only one or two behind before not three).
I expect to go full murder hobo into autocracy later.

Spoiler :

 

[JamesNinelives]

I thought it might be fun to share our current games and what's going on in our Civ lives. Not intended to be a place for tips, advice or criticism, but just to see what's going on. Just for fun!

I've started a new game as Korea. I'm usually a wide player and wanted a change, so am trying a more tall based approach. I thought Korea's bonus of +1 science to specialists is good synergy. I've took tradition and have an engineer already working in my capital and I also managed to get the Goddess of Wisdom pantheon for extra science and faith to specialists. Mega specialists so early on! I'm aiming for a base of 4-5 cities to begin with and see how it develops from there. Only potential thorn in my side is my neighbour to the east...

Let's see how your current game is going!

Are you using a resources mod?

 

[salty mud]

Are you using a resources mod?

I am, yes. The "More Resources for Vox Populi" mod, amongst numerous other submods.

 

[andersw]

Finished. edit: this game was on 8.16.2
...and I was pretty much correct.
Assyria capitulated very soon after last post and I decided to not greed for his wonders (after all most are only good if I build them).
I managed to notice Assur had syncretism so I didnt convert his capital, it was a 15+% empire wide science increase, a far better price than any wonders.
So I declared on Austria.
Austria looked like she could put up a fight, however, no authority, flat terrain, probably less promos? and too much skirmishers.
Skirmishers are great when there is room and the area is well prepared for its use, in a tight defensive position they just get deleted (I lost two of my own vs Assyria) which is why I like the Parthian Tactics so much better than logistics (if I manage to get there).
Boudicca was a quick run-by and Polynesia just got rolled over.
I took autocracy and went Lebensraum, Iron fist, police state (felt so good to max tax Assyria without him being able to do anything).

Lessons learned.
Try to choose my wars carefully, beware of coastal wars (like that with spain in a prev game).
I was a bit lucky that the Incas didnt have more mountains to abuse.
Conquer all CS that are in the way, use GG for citadels a LOT (didnt do that to the same extent in last game).
First to found, last to enhance, with some religious nutters (Celts are closest here) it would have been even worse (Monty and Spain for example).
I was lucky I had no runaway warmonger on the map, Assyria was strong and could probably have gotten somewhere but never really set for conquest.
Wonders seems to be a nono, there's always atleast one AI doing way better.
There is a LOT of wars and agression and dogpiling on Pangea on this patch, I like that.
Beware of AI Shaka, the promos and extra hps are really strong.
Assyria is a science monster, he was on par with me at 50 techs when game ended.

Continental must be a lot harder with having to have atleast one if not several big navys as well.

Probably chill with a random civ emperor before another try on Immortal.

Spoiler :

Starting location, a bit short on food in early game, eles are good but not good enough for me to rush with them on immortal.

Spoiler :