So what city-states are you missing?
- Thread starter chaotoroboto
- Start date
migkillertwo
Prince
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2010
- Messages
- 404
this, also I'd like to see Jerusalem
Mango Elephant
Deity
We need Great Zimbabwe!
And great list, btw.
And great list, btw.
SJSerio
Centurion
You talking to me or somebody else?
(btw, the list I posted isn't mine, but from the majority of people who posted in this thread. I just organized it a bit for quick reference.)
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
A number of important "city-states" are clearly missing.
For instance, the Swahili city-states, which played an important role in the Indian Sea Trade Routes:
- Mogadishu
- Mombasa
- Zanzibar
- etc.
And then the Central Asian cities that kept the Silk Road alive for centuries and fought each other and were fought over by powers such as the Chinese, Turks, Indians, Persians, Mongols, Russians, and Arabs:
- Samarkhand
- Bukhara
- Tashkent
- Kashgar
- Khotan
- Kabul
- Kandahar
There are also some important sites such as Amsterdam, Constantinople, Babylon, and Cuzco that are missing, but I'm assuming they're not there because the developers are planning to add their respective civilizations in later.
This is not to mention that other important cities previously mentioned, such as Jerusalem (which I am shocked to see not included, given its extreme importance to three religions (i.e. about 2/3 of the world population, if I remember correctly), as well as its historical importance).
It's unfortunate to see that there are so few city-states available. I hope that modding in new city-states will be very easy.
For instance, the Swahili city-states, which played an important role in the Indian Sea Trade Routes:
- Mogadishu
- Mombasa
- Zanzibar
- etc.
And then the Central Asian cities that kept the Silk Road alive for centuries and fought each other and were fought over by powers such as the Chinese, Turks, Indians, Persians, Mongols, Russians, and Arabs:
- Samarkhand
- Bukhara
- Tashkent
- Kashgar
- Khotan
- Kabul
- Kandahar
There are also some important sites such as Amsterdam, Constantinople, Babylon, and Cuzco that are missing, but I'm assuming they're not there because the developers are planning to add their respective civilizations in later.
This is not to mention that other important cities previously mentioned, such as Jerusalem (which I am shocked to see not included, given its extreme importance to three religions (i.e. about 2/3 of the world population, if I remember correctly), as well as its historical importance).
It's unfortunate to see that there are so few city-states available. I hope that modding in new city-states will be very easy.
SJSerio
Centurion
At least a few of those are in the list that I compiled (of suggestions throughout the thread) on the previous page.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
Wow. Didn't notice that. Very impressive list you got there.
Anyhow, I just remembered that another group missing were important cities from nations already "included" in the city-state list. For example:
- Saigon for Vietnam (there's already Hanoi, but what about Saigon?)
- Brasilia, Sao Paulo, and so forth for Brazil
- Krakow for Poland
- Pyongyang for Korea
And so forth.
Mauybe we can pitch in to make a city-states mod when Civ5 comes out.
Anyhow, I just remembered that another group missing were important cities from nations already "included" in the city-state list. For example:
- Saigon for Vietnam (there's already Hanoi, but what about Saigon?)
- Brasilia, Sao Paulo, and so forth for Brazil
- Krakow for Poland
- Pyongyang for Korea
And so forth.
Mauybe we can pitch in to make a city-states mod when Civ5 comes out.
SJSerio
Centurion
Wow. Didn't notice that. Very impressive list you got there.
Anyhow, I just remembered that another group missing were important cities from nations already "included" in the city-state list. For example:
- Saigon for Vietnam (there's already Hanoi, but what about Saigon?)
- Brasilia, Sao Paulo, and so forth for Brazil
- Krakow for Poland
- Pyongyang for Korea
And so forth.
Mauybe we can pitch in to make a city-states mod when Civ5 comes out.
That depends on what modding tools are available and how easy it is to create new ones. Unfortunately, I am not a programmer. If anything, I compiled the list as a quick reference for modders.
BluebeardRex
Chieftain
Can't access the Zipped file unfortunately, but that a great list Thorburne - good work compiling it so nicely. It saved me a lot of time reading back through the thread to see what was suggested before I repeat everyone else.
Though I am Irish, and kind of pleased to see Dublin mentioned, I do think that it is one of many cities that are nods to fan bases and nations rather than a genuine historical representative of a city state, even if Ireland is becoming ever more Dublin-centric. That said, the idea of city states is fantastic, and to be honest, you could call them Phil, Jimmy and Maria and they will still have the same impact on the gameplay.
But of course, there are some admittedly eurocentric cities I would have thought might have made it.
Burgundy - It just kept cropping up in different forms the common era, as a Duchy, two different kingdoms and various forms of provinces
Konigsburg / Kaliningrad - A strangely historied city that has wandered between chiefly Teutonic and Prussian history now in Russian hands, and yet sandwiched between Poland and Lithuania. Definitely a culture city.
Another idea that I would like to see happen in the game, and I think that in time it may come to pass is that a conquered city from a vanquished civilisation might eventually break and become a city state. Presumably with a grudge against the civ that vanquished their former civ.
And while I am at it, how about a Hanseatic league? I am sure that there are variations on all continents, but this is the only one I know anyway well. I always thought that it would be a good addition to have a trade league among civs, but now that there are city states, it could become a reality!
Hmm. Maybe I should move to another thread....
Though I am Irish, and kind of pleased to see Dublin mentioned, I do think that it is one of many cities that are nods to fan bases and nations rather than a genuine historical representative of a city state, even if Ireland is becoming ever more Dublin-centric. That said, the idea of city states is fantastic, and to be honest, you could call them Phil, Jimmy and Maria and they will still have the same impact on the gameplay.
But of course, there are some admittedly eurocentric cities I would have thought might have made it.
Burgundy - It just kept cropping up in different forms the common era, as a Duchy, two different kingdoms and various forms of provinces
Konigsburg / Kaliningrad - A strangely historied city that has wandered between chiefly Teutonic and Prussian history now in Russian hands, and yet sandwiched between Poland and Lithuania. Definitely a culture city.
Another idea that I would like to see happen in the game, and I think that in time it may come to pass is that a conquered city from a vanquished civilisation might eventually break and become a city state. Presumably with a grudge against the civ that vanquished their former civ.
And while I am at it, how about a Hanseatic league? I am sure that there are variations on all continents, but this is the only one I know anyway well. I always thought that it would be a good addition to have a trade league among civs, but now that there are city states, it could become a reality!
Hmm. Maybe I should move to another thread....
chaotoroboto
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2010
- Messages
- 151
I have been led to understand Civ 2 had a secession mechanic but 3 and 4 neither one did.
When Umbrieus and I have discussed this hanging out, we think that a secession mechanic that might be playable is one where unhappiness accumulates just like happiness does, but if you get too much unhappiness, then a city will secede and become a city state.
We've talked about a lot of different ways to handle it from there, but that seems pretty reasonable and should be playable.
We've also discussed possibilities for commercial city states (trade route bonuses, special buildings, one-off luxury resources) and late game updates - research cities, free trade zones, corporate cities on the East Asian model - but secession and religion have gotten most of our talk, as those are the two that would add the most gameplay depth but also would require the most decisions before implementing.
You should check out the holy city states thread, it's linked to in a ton of people's sigs.
Sahkuhnder
Delusions of grandeur
Malta: Militaristic
Historically has often been close to the very definition of a Civ5 City-State. Malta is a City that is an independent sovereign State, has its own state interests and friends and enemies, but has no desire to expand in the way a standard Civilization would.
Historically has often been close to the very definition of a Civ5 City-State. Malta is a City that is an independent sovereign State, has its own state interests and friends and enemies, but has no desire to expand in the way a standard Civilization would.
j51
Blue Star Cadet
(Thorburne, I tried to open your list, but my excel must be too old.)
For the past few weeks I've been working on my own list. Its of the states I'm going to replace the game's list with before I even play it.
It's of mostly pre-20th century smaller states from all over the world. I've also kept the same ratio of militaristic to cultured and maritime cities. There are blanks where I don't what to give a state for its personality.
The city/states that I'm keeping from the original game (as of now) are underlined. What I've changed about those cities is in italics.
I hope the attachment works!
For the past few weeks I've been working on my own list. Its of the states I'm going to replace the game's list with before I even play it.
It's of mostly pre-20th century smaller states from all over the world. I've also kept the same ratio of militaristic to cultured and maritime cities. There are blanks where I don't what to give a state for its personality.The city/states that I'm keeping from the original game (as of now) are underlined. What I've changed about those cities is in italics.
I hope the attachment works!
Sahkuhnder
Delusions of grandeur
Ribannah
Fighter Druid
Tiahuanaco is the Spanish spelling of Tiwanaku.
SJSerio
Centurion
(Thorburne, I tried to open your list, but my excel must be too old.)
For the past few weeks I've been working on my own list. Its of the states I'm going to replace the game's list with before I even play it.
The city/states that I'm keeping from the original game (as of now) are underlined. What I've changed about those cities is in italics.
I hope the attachment works!
If you have a version of office older than 2007, you should be able to open it by installing the compatibility pack from Microsoft.
I couldn't open your list. I downloaded it, but, apparantly, it doesn't have a file extension. What type of file is it?
my 2 cents is:
Celje
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celje
but since rarelly who can spot my country which is very small...doubt the name will get in
Celje
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celje
but since rarelly who can spot my country which is very small...doubt the name will get in
BluebeardRex
Chieftain
my 2 cents is:
Celje
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celje
but since rarelly who can spot my country which is very small...doubt the name will get in
Interesting option for a Slovene city state, eschewing Maribor / Marburg and Ljubljana / Laibach - I knew nothing about it before now, and embarrassingly thought Koper to be bigger. Mention of it makes me think of Trieste / Trst / Triest / Trieszt though as a city of multiple countries, and apparently a city state under UN protection after the war. Now, like Derry / Londonderry in Northern Ireland, it is separated from a large part of its multi-ethnic hinterland by a penstroke or two.
It also led me on to think of Abzhazia, currently being disputed by Georgia but recognised by Russia - almost a holiday destination city state of the modern era. Likely too controversial to add just now, but an interesting modern equivalent.
Finally opened the two zips - great lists both of you. Thorburne, I'll pm some suggestions to fill in blanks!
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
Definitely Jerusalem
op suggestions (Buenos Aires, Lagos, Nairobi) are good
(although I can say exactly why TaiwanMacao is not included)
Jakarta definitely
Madrid
Amsterdam
Lisbon
Carthage
(although their absence may indicate that they are planned DLC)
op suggestions (Buenos Aires, Lagos, Nairobi) are good
(although I can say exactly why TaiwanMacao is not included)
Jakarta definitely
Madrid
Amsterdam
Lisbon
Carthage
(although their absence may indicate that they are planned DLC)
Pretty sure the first and last aren't there because of future expansion potential.
The other two, not as much. We'll almost certainly see Spain and Carthage before Portugal and any incarnation of the Netherlands at any rate.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
Actually, what I'd really like to ee is City-States that are part of civs that aren't in This game
So if the Americans aren't in the game, then the Citystates of New York, Richmond, and Austin might be in the game
If England isn't in the Game the City-states of London, Ontario, and Sydney might be in the game
If Greece is in the game, then the City-States of Athens and Sparta can't be.
This way you could allow for DLC and still have large City-State variety
So if the Americans aren't in the game, then the Citystates of New York, Richmond, and Austin might be in the game
If England isn't in the Game the City-states of London, Ontario, and Sydney might be in the game
If Greece is in the game, then the City-States of Athens and Sparta can't be.
This way you could allow for DLC and still have large City-State variety
