So, what would be your ideal civ roster?

Ikael

King
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Dec 2, 2005
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Ok, so now the final list of the initial 19 civilizations have been revealed, and noone seems to be happy about it on this forums. From cries of eurocentrism to glaring omissions of civ staples such as Persia, everyone has something (negative) to say about this list of initial civs.

So that makes me wonder: what would be for you a well thought, balanced rooter of civilizations?

In order to add some realism to this debate and avoid it being a collection of huge lists of 60+civs, let me add some limitations:

Initial civs: 19+1 preorder bonus
First expansion: 6 extra civs
Final expansion: 6 extra civs

With these rules on mind, these would be my personal picks:

Initial civs:

European civs: France, England, Germany, Spain, Russia, Rome, Greece
American civs: America, Aztecs, Inca
African civs: Ashanti
Middle east civs: Arabia, Ottomans, Persia, Egypt
Asian civs: China, India, Japan, Mongols
Preorder bonus civ: Summer (middle east region)

That is, every "must" classic civ in (America, Rome, China, etc), with extra focus in the middle east and the usually much neglected South American continent, thus making vainilla "real location, earth map friendly" since day 1. As a couple of my personal pet peeves, Africa is represented by its most glorious civ ever (Ashanti!) rather than the Zulu, and the pre order bonus is, of course, the very first civilization that ever existed (so you get the first for being the first civver to civ!).

First expansion: Mali, Etiopia, Zulu, Khmer, Indonesia, Vietnam

Africa and S-E Asia gallore. Mali and Etiopia cover the West and East African Coasts respectively, while the Zulu covers South Africa while adding a much needed warmonger to the civ rooster. Meanwhile, the Khmer not only covers a great S-E area, but also adds one of the most fascinant civs that ever existed, and the Mapuche offers

Final expansion civs: Afganistan, Mapuche, Netherlands, Bizantium, Gran Colombia, Portugal

Netherlands is a civ that offers lots of gameplay possibilities (terraformation! channels! colonialism!), Gran Colombia is a great "what if" about a United States of South America which managed to exist for a brief period of time, the Afgans represent a much negleted world region (central asia) while offering a "silk route" type of civ, the Mapuche makes the case for a more unknown native american civ while adding geographic diversity, and the rest are civs which simply have lots of interesting gameplay possibilities.
 
Base civilizations :
1. USA
2. England
3. France
4. Germany
5. Rome
6. Greece
7. Russia
8. Arabia
9. Ottomans
10. Egypt
11. Persia
12. Sumer
13. China
14. Japan
15. Mongols
16. Aztecs
17. Inca
18. India
19. Ethiopia
20. Spain (pre-oder bonus)

First expansion : Portugal, The Netherlands, the Khmer, The Mayans, Mali and Korea
Second expansion : A norse civ (Denmark, Norway or Sweden), Poland, Thailand, Carthago, Brazil and Kongo.

Damn, it's too hard too chose when there are still so many deserving civs, specially when six civs per expansion is even less than civ 5 !
 
Please note that the initial number of civs is 19 + a preorder extra one, making it 20 civs total on the release + 12 more with expansion. 32 civs ain't too shabby, me thinks.

But yeah, choosing is hard, hence why this speculation exercise is interesting :3 and realistic, since Firaxis doesn't have infinite resources :) it is almost impossible to put every single relevant civ in, even if we would add 10 additional slots.

Me and a friend worked this out a while back: our ideal list would be:

America (Pre-order bonus)

Holy crap, that's genious XDDD (and I am being serious here, but this is a "why did nobody thought about it before?" type of idea.
 
Persia
Rome
Sweden
Hittites
Britain
France
Arabia
Ottomans
China
Germany
Russia
Spain
Greece
Mongolia
Japan
Egypt
Aztecs
Inca
Ethiopia
Songhai
 
Base civilisations:
1. America
2. Arabia
3. Aztec
4. China
5. Egypt
6. England
7. France
8. Germany
9. Greece
10. India
11. Japan
12. Khmer (SEA representation)
13. Mongolia
14. Ottoman
15. Persia
16. Rome
17. Russia
18. Spain
19. Zulu
20. Pueblo (pre-order bonus)

First expansion: Akkadia, Babylon, Georgia, Korea, Maya, Sumer
Final expansion: Carthage, Celtic, Ethiopia, Inca, Mali, Tahiti
 
I'm a fan of Rhys's and Fall - DoC, so I arrange the rooster based on DoC's Civs..

Initial civs:
* Egypt
* China
* India
* Persia
* Rome
* Japan
* Arabia
* Spain
* France
* England
* Russia
* Aztecs
* Greece
* Germany
* Mali
* Sweden
* Thailand
* Congo
* Ethiopia
* America (Pre-order bonus)

First expansion: "Trade to Far East"
* Mongolia
* Korea
* Indonesia
* Moors
* Phoenicia
* Poland

Final expansion: "Exploration to the New World"
* Inca
* Maya
* Portugal
* Netherlands
* Turkey
* Babylonia
 
If I had to choose 18 for the base game:

Ancient Eurasian
1. Greece
2. Rome
3. Egypt
4. Persia
5. Sumer
6. China
7. India
8. Japan

Medieval Eurasian
9. Arabia

Modern Eurasian
10. England
11. France
12. Germany
13. Spain
14. Russia

American
15. Maya
16. Inca

Southeast Asian
17. Khmer

Subsaharan African
18. Mali

If we really must have the US, I too like the idea of throwing it there as a pre-order bonus.

----
After the above, I'd have, in no specific order (new to the series in red):
- Phoenicia
- Babylon
- Assyria
- Armenia
- Korea

- Mongols

- Norse
- Celts, or maybe Scotland
- Portugal
- Netherlands
- Italy
- Turkey
- Romania
- Poland

- Morocco
- Ethiopia
- Kongo
- Angola
- Ashanti
- Songhai
- Nigeria

- Mississippi
- Iroquois
- Pueblo
- Aztecs
- Tupi

- Thailand
- Burma
- Indonesia
- Vietnam

And if you have the US, I guess you can have Brazil too.

That rounds up very nicely as 50 civs in total.
 
My 18 Civs would be:

Rohingya
Cherokee
Aztec
Navajo
Wiradjuri
Uyghur
Mohe
Mordovians
Sami
Sparta
Sicilia
Tupi
Gaul
Samoan
Zulu
Chewa
Copts
Kurds

I hope that's 18.
 
I know this list would never get approved because it doesn't have modern day countries, I just prefer going back to the old indigenous tribes of the world and using them.
 
1. Rome
2. Greece
3. England
4. Germany
5. France
6. Spain
7. Russia
8. America
9. Aztec
10. Inca
11. Mississippi
12. Egypt
13. Persia
14. Arabia
15. Turkey
16. India
17. China
18. Japan
19. Mongolia
20. Khmer (pre-order bonus)

Exp pack 1 (focused on trade, colonization and independence)
1. Netherlands
2. Portugal
3. Brazil
4. Maya
5. Iroquois
6. Kongo

Exp pack 2 (grab bag of other civs, not sure how to fit them in to a theme)
1. Byzantium
2. Kilwa
3. Mughal
4. Korea
5. Vikings
6. Polynesia
 
I would keep the 18 Civs slated for the base game so here's my extra Civs for expansions.

Americas.
Mexico, Canada, Colombia, Inca, Souix,

Asia/Pacific
Korea, Phillipines, Vietnam, Australia, Mongolia

Middle East
Persia, Babylon, Assyria, Hittite, Israel, Phoenicia

Europe/Africa
Romania, Italy, Ireland, South Africa, Carthage
 
I would do something rather crazy, and reserve the base-game for Mediterranean and Middle-Eastern civs only.

  • Assyria
  • Athens
  • Ayyubids
  • Babylon
  • Carthage
  • Crete
  • Egypt
  • Hittites
  • Israel
  • Macedon
  • Morocco
  • Ottomans
  • Persia
  • Portugal
  • Rome
  • Saba
  • Sicily
  • Spain

Bonus Civ: Sparta
 
New to the game.

Base 18
1. USA
2. England
3. France
4. Rome
5. Greece
6. Russia
7. China
8. Japan
9. India
10. Arabia
11. Persia
12. Ottomans
13. Egypt
14. Ashanti
15. Khmer
16. Brazil
17. Inca
18. Romania
Pre-Order Bonus
1. Sumer
DLC Civs
1. Canada
2. Pueblo
3. Argentina
4. Germany
5. Australia
Expansion 1: Colonization
1. Spain
2. France
3. Aztec
4. Maya
5. Seminole
6. Vikings
7. Inuit
8. Dutch
9. Kongo
Expansion 2: Nomads & Empires
1. Mongols
2. Scythia
3. Sioux
4. Zulu
5. Mali
6. Carthage
7. Portugal
8. Hittites
9. Babylon
 
Well, I have assembled a super-long dream roster, and I would actually do it like this:
Vanilla - 20 civs
Two expansion packs with 12 civs each
Two "civ packs" (instead of just single civ DLCs) with 10 civs each.
This is a crazy total of 64 civs, covering almost every corner of the globe.

Vanilla:
English
Germans
French
Spanish
Greeks
Romans
Russians
Arabs
Babylonians
Persians
Indians
Mongols
Chinese
Japanese
Khmer
Egyptians
Songhai
Americans
Aztecs
Inca

Civ pack 1:
Britons (more specific, instead of the usual Celts)
Danes
Austrians
Hungarians
Byzantines
Turks
Koreans
Carthaginians
Zulu
Iroquois

Expansion pack 1:
Swedes
Scots
Dutch
Poles
Hittites
Armenians
Assyrians
Nabataeans
Thai
Indonesians
Ethiopians
Maya

Civ pack 2:
Lithuanians
Venetians
Portuguese
Kongolese
Cherokee
Pueblo
Taino
Brazilians
Australians
Hawaiians

Expansion pack 2:
Romanians
Bulgarians
Georgians
Israelites
Uzbeks
Myanma
Dahomey
Malagasy
Haida
Muisca
Tongans
Maori
 
Ok, this is an interesting thought exercise, but only if you stick to the limiting factors. So I will do 18 civs + 1 preorder + 1 DLC (as Firaxis is doing). 2 expansion packs seems likely, but I will stick to 6 per as requested in the OP, even though I know they will have more than that (probs more like 8-10 each, but oh well. 6 is more challenging!)

Also, I will try to use the Civs that I actually think they will do this time. So they had Assyria and Babylon in 5, so they will have Sumeria in 6.

Vanilla
-Have to have the Civs that literally define Civilization
1) China
2) Rome
3) Greece
4) Egypt
5) Sumeria
6) Persia
-Add in the obvious extra contenders and Civ staples
7) India
8) Japan
9) England
10) France
11) Germany
12) Russia
13) America
14) Aztecs
-Add in some geographic/cultural coverage
15) Inca
16) Scythia (I think this is somewhat replacing Mongols, playstyle-wise)
17) Khmer (they used Siam last time)
18) Kongo (they used Songhai last time)

Preorder has to be culturally unique but not so staple that people will complain
19) Brazil
DLC has to be wacky enough that people want it enough to bother, but commonly wanted enough that a lot of people will be interested
20) Pueblo

Expansions need a theme, because there will need to be game mechanics worth focusing these Civs around and introducing with the expansion. I think the first expansion will be about the mid-game and the second will be about the late-game, as usual. I will use the Exploration theme for the first (to get all the colonizers and civs they discovered), and then a Globalization theme for the second (to get a world congress and corporations).

I'll explain how each one fits the theme, and why they're here

Expansion #1: A Whole New World (exploration theme)
1) Spain (most important Euro not in vanilla, and the obvious choice)
2) Portugal (trade and exploration focus, exactly matches theme)
3) Mongolia (Marco Polo travelled during the Pax Mongolica, and need a playstyle that goes against the theme or some players will be bored as hell)
4) Mali (Africa needs more representation, and Mansa Musa's pilgrimage is something that can be molded to be exploration related)
5) Indonesia (island exploration plus trade, and also doesn't fit anywhere else and probs wont be popular enough to be DLC)
6) Maya (can't do an exploration theme without the last big American civ)

Expansion #2: Land of Tomorrow (Diplomacy and Modern theme)
1) Ottomans (trade for corporations, religious tolerance but warlike is a good diplomatic niche)
2) Venice (trade for corporations, small with trade everywhere is a good diplomatic niche)
3) Arabia (trade for corporations, religious domination + trade is a good diplomatic niche)
4) Ethiopia (religious and insular is a good diplomatic niche, and much of its known history is modern)
5) Austria (interesting diplomatic niche with City-states)
6) Korea (need something completely other and Asian. Science turtle Civ?)

And more DLC, because these are again Civs that people would be interested in and don't quite fit the other themes

33) Norway (Vikings, would be under Exp. #1 for finding Newfoundland)
34) Sweden (protestant renaissance era focus, would be under Exp. #2 for diplo niche)
35) Byzantium (no exp theme to fit, but very popular civ)
36) Poland (no exp theme to fit, but very popular civ)
37) Carthage (would fit under trade or exploration, but very popular and can only fit 6 per)
38) Gran Columbia (would fit great under Exp. #2 for modern, but only so much space)
39) Native American tribe that grants permission for Firaxis to represent them (this changes every time, so I didn't want to assume where it belonged. Cherokee? Shawnee? Lakota? Iroquois?)
40) Zulu (I'd rather not, but Firaxis might)

Even 40! If that were 10 Civs per expansion pack, that'd be doable.
 
1. America – Thomas Jefferson
2. Aztec – Topiltzin Cē Ācatl Quetzalcōatl
3. Babylon – Hammurabi
4. Byzantium – Julian the Apostate
5. China – Qin Shi Haung
6. Egypt – Akhenaten
7. England – Richard the Lionheart
8. France – Louis IX
9. Greece – Pericles
10. Holy Romans – Charlemagne
11. India – Gandhi
12. Japan – Tokugawa
13. Outremer – Godfrey of Bouillon
14. Norse – Leif Erikson
15. Rome – Marcus Aurelius
16. Russia – Nicholas II
17. Sioux – Sitting Bull
18. Spain – Charles I

Unapologetically eurocentric. Not many new civilizations (only Outremer), but many new leaders.
 
BASE GAME
(Multiple leaders for most Civs)
America ~ Jefferson, Lincoln
- I'm kinda meh on modern Civs, but there will never be a Civ game without it so...
Arabia ~ Harun al-Rashid, Salahaddin
Aztecs ~ Nezahualcoyotl, Cuauhtemoc
Babylonia ~ Hammurabi, Nebuchadnezzar, Sharrukin (Sargon) of Akkad [DLC]
Brazil ~ Pedro II
China ~ Qin Shi Huang, Gaozu of Tang, Yongle [DLC]
Egypt ~ Sneferu, Akhenaten, Cleopatra [DLC]
England ~ Elizabeth I, Victoria
- No, I don't really care that Victoria ruled "The United Kingdom". It's not that big of a deal.
Ethiopia ~ Ezana of Aksum, Zara Yaqob, Taytu Betul [DLC]
- Ethiopia should really be a staple of Civ base games...
France ~ Henri IV, Napoléon Bonaparte
Germany - *Pre-Order Bonus* ~ Barbarossa, Bismark
- P/O Bonus purely for the sake of Europe being crowded enough to begin with from a gaming perspective, and to flip the bird to Eurocentrism from a personal ethical perspective.
Greece - Pericles, Alexander the Great
Inca - Pachacuti, Túpac Amaru II [DLC]
India - Ashoka, Akbar, Shivaji [DLC]
Japan - Himiko, Tokugawa Ieyasu, Emperor Meiji [DLC]
Khmer - Suryavarman II
Mali - Mansa Musa
Persia - Cyrus the Great, Khosrow I (Anushirwan), Nader Shah [DLC]
Rome - Julius Caesar, Trajan, Constantine [DLC]
Russia - Vladimir the Great, Ivan the Terrible, Catherine the Great [DLC]

EXPANSION 1
Cherokee - John Ross
Indonesia - Gajah Mada
Maya - Siyaj K'ak, Yuknoom Ch'een II
Mongols - Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, Timur [DLC]
Spain - Isabella, Charles V
Turks - Alp Arslan, Süleiman the Magnificent, Abdülmecid I [DLC]

EXPANSION 2
Haiti ~ Toussaint L'Ouverture
Kilwa ~ Suleiman ibn al-Hasan ibn Dawud
Kongo ~ Nzinga a Nkuwu (João I), Ana Nzinga [DLC]
Korea ~ Sejong the Great, Queen Seondeok
Mapuche ~ Lautaro
Portugal ~ Henry the Navigator

Extra DLC
Because I can't resist...

Hittites ~ Puduhepa, Suppiluliuma
Netherlands ~ William of Orange
Tamils ~ Rajaraja Chola
Thailand ~ Ramkhamhaeng, Narai
Scythia ~ Tomyris, Tirgatao
Norse ~ Ragnar Lodbrok
Byzantium ~ Theodora, Alexios Komnenos
Carthage ~ Dido, Hannibal

This was quite difficult to compile/balance, and in aiming for that balance I had to omit some Civs I'd really want/that most players would really want... Proof that the base games really should be broader (up to 30 Civs), with the expansions bringing the list up to 60+. Otherwise, it's really not doing justice to the scope of human history.
 
This was quite difficult to compile/balance, and in aiming for that balance I had to omit some Civs I'd really want/that most players would really want... Proof that the base games really should be broader (up to 30 Civs), with the expansions bringing the list up to 60+. Otherwise, it's really not doing justice to the scope of human history.

Well, it would seem that my topic archieved its intended goal then ;)
 
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