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Sol has a friend?

Bozo Erectus

Master Baker
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
22,389
Evidence Mounts For Sun's Companion Star

The Binary Research Institute (BRI) has found that orbital characteristics of the recently discovered planetoid, "Sedna", demonstrate the possibility that our sun might be part of a binary star system. A binary star system consists of two stars gravitationally bound orbiting a common center of mass. Once thought to be highly unusual, such systems are now considered to be common in the Milky Way galaxy.

Walter Cruttenden at BRI, Professor Richard Muller at UC Berkeley, Dr. Daniel Whitmire of the University of Louisiana, amongst several others, have long speculated on the possibility that our sun might have an as yet undiscovered companion. Most of the evidence has been statistical rather than physical. The recent discovery of Sedna, a small planet like object first detected by Cal Tech astronomer Dr. Michael Brown, provides what could be indirect physical evidence of a solar companion. Matching the recent findings by Dr. Brown, showing that Sedna moves in a highly unusual elliptical orbit, Cruttenden has determined that Sedna moves in resonance with previously published orbital data for a hypothetical companion star.

In the May 2006 issue of Discover, Dr. Brown stated: "Sedna shouldn't be there. There's no way to put Sedna where it is. It never comes close enough to be affected by the sun, but it never goes far enough away from the sun to be affected by other stars... Sedna is stuck, frozen in place; there's no way to move it, basically there's no way to put it there -- unless it formed there. But it's in a very elliptical orbit like that. It simply can't be there. There's no possible way - except it is. So how, then?"

"I'm thinking it was placed there in the earliest history of the solar system. I'm thinking it could have gotten there if there used to be stars a lot closer than they are now and those stars affected Sedna on the outer part of its orbit and then later on moved away. So I call Sedna a fossil record of the earliest solar system. Eventually, when other fossil records are found, Sedna will help tell us how the sun formed and the number of stars that were close to the sun when it formed."

Walter Cruttenden agrees that Sedna's highly elliptical orbit is very unusual, but noted that the orbit period of 12,000 years is in neat resonance with the expected orbit periodicity of a companion star as outlined in several prior papers. Consequently, Cruttenden believes that Sedna's unusual orbit is something indicative of the current solar system configuration, not merely a historical record. "It is hard to imagine that Sedna would retain its highly elliptical orbit pattern since the beginning of the solar system billions of years ago. Because eccentricity would likely fade with time, it is logical to assume Sedna is telling us something about current, albeit unexpected solar system forces, most probably a companion star".

Outside of a few popular articles, and Cruttenden's book "Lost Star of Myth and Time", which outlines historical references and the modern search for the elusive companion, the possibility of a binary partner star to our sun has been left to the halls of academia. But with Dr. Brown's recent discoveries of Sedna and Xena, (now confirmed to be larger than Pluto), and timing observations like Cruttenden's, the search for a companion star may be gaining momentum.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060424180559.htm

Fascinating, a new important member of the Sol 'family'. Opens up a whole bunch of questions. Ive got two for now which Im sure the OT Science Brigade can answer:

1. Why havent we been able to detect the companion through direct observation? Is it like a brown dwarf or something?

2. The article states that both would be orbitting a common center of gravity. Does that mean that theyre both orbitting something unseen (like a mini blackhole:eek: ), or do they merely mean that the stars happened to ensnare each other with their gravity fields, like a bola, two missiles that twirl around each other held together with a string?
 
I hope theres no blackhole anywhere near Earth. I'm terribly scared of those things, big or small. Even a small one would throw off our orbit enough to freeze us and all life on this planet.
 
Godwynn said:
I hope theres no blackhole anywhere near Earth. I'm terribly scared of those things, big or small. Even a small one would throw off our orbit enough to freeze us and all life on this planet.

Scientists can creat miscrscopic black holes in lab conditions. FEAR THEM!!!!!
 
I'm not sure I quite understand this, if Sol does have a companion it must be a very small dim star, or very very far away. You should be able to predict the existence of a large mass the size of a sun by looking at planets in some sort of proximity? For example the peturbation Jupiter causes to the sun and vise a versa is clearly measurable. What are they suggesting this sun is exactly and where is it?

I'm not sure that's true silver do you have a link, if they can then it's likely they are claiming it's a black hole without absolute proof? Then again I've been wrong about this sort of thing before, so..?

There are no black holes of any size near Earth as far as we can tell, but there's a super massive one and I mean super massive :eek: at the centre of every Galaxy and it seems they are essential for galaxy formation.
 
Sidhe said:
but there's a super massive one and I mean super massive :eek: at the centre of every Galaxy and it seems they are essential for galaxy formation.
Why do you think theyre essential to galaxy formation, because they provide a center of gravity and organize all the matter?
 
It's what gives a galaxy it's cohesion in early formation I seem to remember something like that, I suspect someone else knows, it's a few years since I saw the documentary on it or looked at any other evidence.

It's also why the galaxy appears to behave in a way where models without super dense matter appear not to behave, the spiral arms movement only works if the super dense is included in the model, the other indirect evidence is stars whizzing around the centre at enormous speeds it is theorized could only be explained by superdense clusters of neutron stars or a massive black hole or something else we have no knowledge of.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2000/massivebholes.shtml

I found this site which references the Horizon documentary.

EDIT: We also have a 50/50 - a bit speculative though - chance of being destroyed in 3 billion years when Andromeda and the Mily Way colide, to be honest with the difuseness of matter in a galaxy I think it more likely we will be spared a grim fate of being tossed into space or into the centre of the galaxy.
 
Bozo Erectus said:
1. Why havent we been able to detect the companion through direct observation? Is it like a brown dwarf or something?
Yeah, it would have to be a very low mass object

Bozo Erectus said:
2. The article states that both would be orbitting a common center of gravity. Does that mean that theyre both orbitting something unseen (like a mini blackhole:eek: ), or do they merely mean that the stars happened to ensnare each other with their gravity fields, like a bola, two missiles that twirl around each other held together with a string?
The latter, two gravititationally bound masses orbit around a common point known as the Barycenter.

Godwynn said:
I hope theres no blackhole anywhere near Earth. I'm terribly scared of those things, big or small. Even a small one would throw off our orbit enough to freeze us and all life on this planet.
Don't worry, there's no reason to believe one exists in the Sol system.

silver 2039 said:
Scientists can creat miscrscopic black holes in lab conditions.
Those reports are highly tentative. Exercise cuation with these statements. ;)

Sidhe said:
I'm not sure I quite understand this, if Sol does have a companion it must be a very small dim star, or very very far away. You should be able to predict the existence of a large mass the size of a sun by looking at planets in some sort of proximity? For example the peturbation Jupiter causes to the sun and vise a versa is clearly measurable. What are they suggesting this sun is exactly and where is it?
Well at this time they aren't suggesting any particular location, but if I were to hazard a guess it would be on the order of 150,000 AU (Sedna's Aphelion), at such distances gravitational perturbation of planets would be minimal.
 
Thanks perfection: that makes sense, we should be able to find it if it exists then :)

EDIT: Bit of a needle in a haystack search though.
 
You know how the matter in Saturns ring system is organized by 'shepherd moons'? Maybe this companion acts like a 'shepherd dwarf' on the Oort cloud? Does that sound plausible?
 
That would be horrible news if true. A companion star runs the risk of unleashing a comet barage upon Earth. Google for "nemesis, end of world".
 
Sidhe said:
Thanks that makes sense, we should be able to find it if it exists then :)
Well, part of the problem isn't just finding it, but distinguishing it from all the other stars in the sky!
 
Too quick for me, I posted an edit, but you got in there before I did :)

SeleucusNicator said:
That would be horrible news if true. A companion star runs the risk of unleashing a comet barage upon Earth. Google for "nemesis, end of world".

I'm not sure that's true it would probably draw out comets but I would imagine that they would be more likely to be so far off as to be of no real threat or be drawn into or around that sun since Sol would have a comparitively negligible pull on them.

If anything it might make comet impacts slightly less likely.
 
Bozo Erectus said:
You know how the matter in Saturns ring system is organized by 'shepherd moons'? Maybe this companion acts like a 'shepherd dwarf' on the Oort cloud? Does that sound plausible?
Maybe to an extent, but the gravitational effect of the companion on certain worlds that come very close would be much much greater than that of the shepard moons. The far greater distances between the companion and the sun and the more comparible masses would render the gravitational impacts significantly different. I wouldn't think such an anology would suffice.

SeleucusNicator said:
That would be horrible news if true. A companion star runs the risk of unleashing a comet barage upon Earth. Google for "nemesis, end of world".
Nemesis theory behind the Earth's mass extinctions is not seriously considered.

Sidhe said:
Too quick for me, I posted an edit, but you got in there before I did :)
:ninja:
 
Perfection said:
Maybe to an extent, but the gravitational effect of the companion on certain worlds that come very close would be much much greater than that of the shepard moons. The far greater distances between the companion and the sun and the more comparible masses would render the gravitational impacts significantly different. I wouldn't think such an anology would suffice.
According to the article, it seems to have had an impact on Sednas unusual orbit. Sedna is actually larger than Pluto isnt it? I assume an effect on Pluto can be ruled out because somebody long ago would have realized there was something odd about its orbit too.

Is Sedna so far out, that its being influenced by the companion, but Pluto, which is much closer, isnt?
 
Bozo Erectus said:
According to the article, it seems to have had an impact on Sednas unusual orbit. Sedna is actually larger than Pluto isnt it?
No, Sedna is smaller. You're probobly thinking about 2003 UB313.

Bozo Erectus said:
I assume an effect on Pluto can be ruled out because somebody long ago would have realized there was something odd about its orbit too.
Pluto is far more controlled by Neptune then anything else. The planetary interactions would drown out the slight impact of a low-mass star at a very large distance.

Bozo Erectus said:
Is Sedna so far out, that its being influenced by the companion, but Pluto, which is much closer, isnt?
Yeah, that's the basic idea.
 
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