Some people are never happy....

[aneeshm]

There is a particular breed of "intellectuals" in India, normally of the Communist or Leftist breeds, which loves to denigrate and try to degrade all aspects of Indian culture. The epics are one of their favourite targets. They love to try to destroy or somehow taint the image heroes have in the popular imagination.

They are also rank hypocrites.

When Krishna has 16,108 wives, it is sexual exploitation of the wives - no matter the fact that he is an incarnation of saguna God, and thus can keep them all happy and content, because he can take as many bodies and forms as he wishes.

When Draupadi has the five Pandava brothers as husbands, it is now Draupadi who is being exploited. This, in spite of the fact that she once expressed the desire that she had also had the sixth hero, and a brother of these five, as a husband, in addition to the five she already married.

This is quite an intriguing question, actually - if a man marries more than one wives, he is exploiting them. But if more than one man marries a woman, it is the woman who is being exploited! It seems that no matter what you actually do, it is always the woman being exploited in these people's view.

 

[Xanikk999]

When Krishna has 16,108 wives, it is sexual exploitation of the wives - no matter the fact that he is an incarnation of saguna God, and thus can keep them all happy and content, because he can take as many bodies and forms as he wishes.

When Draupadi has the five Pandava brothers as husbands, it is now Draupadi who is being exploited. This, in spite of the fact that she once expressed the desire that she had also had the sixth hero, and a brother of these five, as a husband, in addition to the five she already married.

This is quite an intriguing question, actually - if a man marries 1+n (n being integral greater than zero) wives, he is exploiting them. But if more than one man marries a woman, it is the woman who is being exploited! It seems that no matter what you actually do, it is always the woman being exploited in these people's view.

Its just a myth, nothing to get offended about. Im sure these people have the right to think and say what they want in india dont they?

 

[aneeshm]

Its just a myth, nothing to get offended about. Im sure these people have the right to think and say what they want in india dont they?

Yes, they do, and they should. Again, that is not the point. The point is that they are hypocritical to the extreme, and will use any argument, no matter how self-contradictory, to denigrate popular heroes.

 

[aneeshm]

And for a lot of people, it's not just a myth, it's just a colourful version of history. Most of us believe that Rama, at some time, existed, that Krishna existed, that all the major characters existed, and that there is a kernel of truth behind the epics' embellishment.

 

[Leonel]

You think that's bad? Try living in America. There are millions of people like that and growing!

 

[Nylan]

You think that's bad? Try living in America. There are millions of people like that and growing!

Tell me about it, they criticize anyone and anything that doesn't agree with them in any and all ways possible.

It seems to me they're trying to gain a powerbase of some kind. It's truly saddening that they feel they must destroy your culture and be hypocrites to do so. My thoughts: expose the hypocrisy as a counter movement and get rid of them!...although understandably that might be easier said than done.

 

[scipian]

Don't worry. Liberals are the same here in America.

Remember. The white Christian male is always wrong. Or, I suppose in India, the Indian Hindu Male.

 

[Prince_Imrahil]

Remember. The white Christian male is always wrong. Or, I suppose in India, the Indian Hindu Male

It's always the Males in Most Positions of Power that are wrong, corrupt, evil, etc...

 

[silver 2039]

So...they're just fairy tales why does it matter?

 

[aneeshm]

So...they're just fairy tales why does it matter?

As I said, they're not just fairy tales.

 

[silver 2039]

There was never a demon king with 10 heads that ruled Sri Lanka, nor was there ever a flying chariot, nor did monkeys build a bridge, nor was there an arrow that was actually a nuke. Its just a myth like the Greek myths.

 

[GenMarshall]

Single? Yep, I'm not happy in my state .

 

[silver 2039]

Hahah did you even read the OP?

 

[aneeshm]

There was never a demon king with 10 heads that ruled Sri Lanka, nor was there ever a flying chariot, nor did monkeys build a bridge, nor was there an arrow that was actually a nuke. Its just a myth like the Greek myths.

You are an excellent example of what I mean when I say that these people don't understand the epics.

There is a kernel of truth behind every epic story. What is it that we can know of history from the Ramayana?

We know that:

a) Dasaratha, his wives, and Rama, and his brothers existed as rulers with their capital at Ayodhya
b) That Ravana existed as a ruler of Lanka (the number of heads is irrelevant)
c) That powerful tribes and kingdoms existed in the Kishkindha region (the Vanaras)
d) That Ranana kidnapped Sita
e) That Rama invaded Lanka with the help of the Vanaras to get her back
f) That he succeeded in that invasion

What can we know from the Mahabharat?

a) The lineages of different kings
b) The political situation of India at that time
c) The customs and manners of the people of India at that time
d) That a conflict between two sets of cousins took place
e) That a master strategist, statesman, and spiritually advanced soul existed, in the form of Krishna
f) That the loss of life and power was so great that it took hundreds of years for India to recover
g) That the ruling dynasties of the day were destroyed (the Yadavas, the Kurus, the Purus, and so on)



There are many things we can learn from the epics, much more than just the history. Unless you grow up in an Indian atmosphere, I don't think you'll understand. Only we can understand how the Greeks felt about their myths, you can't. The epics are alive/

Can you read the Devanagari script, and do you know Hindi? If you can and if you do, I'd recommend you read the Gita Press' translation of the Ramayana into Hindi. If you can't read Hindi, then read it in English (the Gita Press has an English translation, too). The cost is minimal - less than 300 Rs., IIRC.

The last Kanda (the Uttara Kanda), however, was added later, by people seeking to justify their power. Unless you're interested in the lineage of Ravana, and in lots of other mythological lineages, and unless you're a mythology geek, I'd recommend you skip that.

 

[silver 2039]

Perhaps that may have vauge historical refrences to them however one can hardly consider them trustworthy historical sources as things have undoubtdly been embellished and romatacized. The Illiad too has a historical basis yet one cannot consider it to be accurate. Did the people exist? Possibly, did the war happen? likley, but for the same reasons in the myth? Unlikley, and the events that occured are equally unlikley. Those myths and epics should be merely looked upon as just that myths nothing more.

Also my knowledge of Indian languages is to the extent that I can understand spoken Kannada, and I could proabaly speak horrible mangled Kannada if I wanted to, and I can insulte people in Hindi....

 

[aneeshm]

Also my knowledge of Indian languages is to the extent that I can understand spoken Kannada, and I could proabaly speak horrible mangled Kannada if I wanted to, and I can insulte people in Hindi....

I always believe that it is better for people to find out on their own, rather than have me preaching. So I suggest that you go and buy the English version of the Gita Press' "Valmiki Ramayana" (NOT the Ramacharitmanas). It's in two volumes, and the whole thing costs only Rs. 300. Given what you've told me about your parents, though, I don't think money will be much of an issue - I'm sure they'll be willing to spend this amount if it gets you to read the Ramayana .

And trust me - it's a great story. Quite engrossing. Earlier, I thought it would be boring religious stuff, but because I had decided that I would read all the world's great religious literature, I decided to go for it. Turns out it wasn't like that at all - the story itself is very compelling, and the religious aspect is a very small part of the main narrative.

You're currently in Bangalore, right? If you are, then you can find the books at the following address:

Bangalore

Gita Press Gorakhpur Ki Pustak Dukan,
15, 4th 'E' Cross, K. S. Garden,
Lalbagh Road, Bangalore - 560027
Phone : +91-80-22955190

If you're residing somewhere else in India, then you can get the list of outlets here. If you want to order directly by phone, you can do that too, at this number: +91-551-2331250. In case you want to order by phone, you can tell them you want book codes 452 and 453.










You see, it's far better that you find out stuff on your own, and come to your own conclusions, instead of me constantly telling you stuff you won't fully understand because of very few common reference points. Read it, see it, if you like it, great, if you don't, then at least your parents are happy that you've read it (or tried to), and the book itself being a collector's item (hard bound, excellent book quality overall, and great translation effort), you haven't lost anything.

 

[GenMarshall]

Hahah did you even read the OP?

Shhhhh, you'll spoil the fun .

 

[Mise]

Err, I'd say that it's the other way around.

If a girl is sleeping with 5 guys at the same time, she's a slut, but if a man is sleeping with 5 girls at the same time, he's a friggin hero.

This is quite an intriguing question, actually - if a man marries more than one wives, he is exploiting them. But if more than one man marries a woman, it is the woman who is being exploited! It seems that no matter what you actually do, it is always the woman being exploited in these people's view.

To me, the idea that women are always the exploited ones is repugnantly sexist. As if the woman is so feeble and helpless that she can't possibly choose such an existence and therefore must have had it imposed upon her against her will.

 

[Truronian]

I fail to see why they are hypopcrites, other than because you disagree with them...

 

[stuge]

"Communist or Leftist breeds."

Priceless. Tell us, of which breed are you?