Something i don't understand about the Military

The Balrog

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Okay, in the bible it says: DO NOT KILL(Maybe written different)
But, when Marines and so on are preparing for an attack/invasion a priest comes and blesses the men.
What is this about?
 

Jimcat

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There are a few different ways to look at this.

Answer 1: Most branches of Christianity recognize the concept of a "Just War". This is, broadly speaking, a war to defend against a threat to the survival of a nation. You can pretty well rationalize any war as a just war if you want to. In the Persian Gulf in 1991 we were defending Kuwait against Saddam. In Vietnam, we were defending the South Vietnamese from the Communists. In the Spanish-American War, we were defending the Cubans, Filipinos, etc. from colonial oppression. (Insert your least favorite war here.)

Answer 2: No one wants to believe they're out of favor with their God, especially not when they're being asked to possibly sacrifice their lives. It's simply a morale builder.

Answer 3: Regardless of the moral status of the war itself, the individual soldiers deserve a blessing as they do their duty as they understand it.

Answer 4: People are sinners and hypocrites. God tells us unequivocally not to kill, but we kill anyway and invent all sorts of justifications for it. They're all going to Hell.
 

VoodooAce

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As God said in the Onion, "What about 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' do you not understand? I made it perfectly clear." :D

Rally, as usual, you can interpret the Bible to mean pretty much what you want it to mean. When a tome is written by numerous authors over a period of hundreds of years, you're going to get that.

Want to find in there were it says its ok to kill someone, you can find it. Want to get a divorce, you can find justification. Want to NOT get a divorce, you can find what you want.
 

Padma

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OK, time for a quick linguistics/history lesson.

The King James Version of the Bible states "Thou shalt not kill". I think there will be no argument about that statement.

Now the fun begins.

In King James' day, the verb "to kill" meant what we now call "to murder". If they had meant to say DON'T KILL (modern interpretation) they would have said "Thou shalt not SLAY".

Translators going back to the original (or as close as possible) scrolls have said that this interpretation is correct. (Sorry, I don't have the sources handy. I remember this from when I was studying linguistics back in the '70s.)

This allows the tie to a "Just War", as in Jimcat's post. Heck, the ancient Jews were a bit of a warmongering bunch, even after receiving this commandment. The semantic difference being, they were at war, not committing murder.

VoodooAce, you're right. You can interpret the Bible to mean pretty much whatever you want. Especially if you use the KJV. Language use has shifted over the centuries, so there's always a question of "does it mean what it SAYS?"
 

Lefty Scaevola

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Originally posted by The Balrog
Okay, in the bible it says: DO NOT KILL

WRONG, only inferior or poetical translations say that. In the Hebrew text, the word used means ONLY murder, unlawful killing. At the time writeen into the bible murder was the killing, without just excuse, of an adult male citzen of the hebrew kingdom, killing children, women, or foreigners was not a serious crime, only a civil property matter settled by compensatory payment. In the oldest oral tradtion times where the commadment, literaly translated to "Murder not" was used, it would applaied only to the killing of the patriach of your extended familily. Later it was extend to any adult male of the family, then of the clan, then of the tribe, then of the kingdom.
 

VoodooAce

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Ok. It says murder rather than kill.

Kill....Murder....Kill....Murder. Yup, I see the difference.

The difference is the guy that's doing the murdering says:

"Dude, don't worry about it, its ok. I'm going to kill him, not murder him."
 

Becka

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Originally posted by VoodooAce
Ok. It says murder rather than kill.

Kill....Murder....Kill....Murder. Yup, I see the difference.

The difference is the guy that's doing the murdering says:

"Dude, don't worry about it, its ok. I'm going to kill him, not murder him."

Think of it this way- all American Bald Eagles are birds; but all birds are not American Bald Eagles.
Murder is killing, but not all killing is murder.

God said "Thou shalt not kill" (or murder), but He gave the Isrealites victory over their enemies in many wars.
 

allan

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Like becka said.

"Murder" is killing under specific circumstances. I.e. without just cause.

Just cause for KILLING could include self-defense, defense of others, lawful punishment (capital punishment--no I don't agree with it really, but it is still "lawful" in some places), or a wartime situation (where in many cases it IS self-defense, or defense of your loved ones). Even in war, "murder" can still happen--intentionally killing unarmed civilians who are not building weapons that could be used against you or your country, for instance--and murder is still a prosecutable offense, as we saw in the My Lai trials....

So the DUUUDE (I hate hearing people talk like that.... :p ) who says, "I ain't gonna murder him, just kill him", is INCORRECT, that is, if his killing would actually be murder. Get the distinction?
 

Knowltok

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Originally posted by Adebisi
Perdonally I dont like the way America asks for God's blessing at the declaration of every war. Jesus more or less condemns war however you look at it, we are allowed to defend ourselves but we cant expect God to bless our sinning. If you read the NT and then the OT and think "phew, wars aint nothing! God loves wars!" you've read the bible wrong. Jesus said what he did at the mount to change the way the people thought and deal with the past.

Isn't this the same as hoping that God agrees that we are defending ourselves? That our cause is just? I can't believe that God would be neutral, so asking for his blessing makes sense. It is like saying, "Well, here we go into an uncertain thing. We think we are doing the right thing for the right reasons, and we hope that that is really the case." i.e. God Bless us.

Perhaps we could ask for Satan's curse on our activities, but I don't think that would be as palatable...
 

CornMaster

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Originally posted by The Balrog
Okay, in the bible it says: DO NOT KILL(Maybe written different)
But, when Marines and so on are preparing for an attack/invasion a priest comes and blesses the men.
What is this about?

You think the Military has ANY care what Religion says!!

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

Oh...that's funny.

Religion is a scape goat. What ever we do is justified....and religion is how we can blame everyone but ourselves.

I'm actually offended by talk of religion.

Like the woman I bought my car from....she preached to me for about an hour when I made my last payment. I never told her my real beliefs....I just smilied and nodded (that's what we have to do to blend into your world) (We = Members of the Church of Common Sense. "For **** sakes man...think!!!" Is our moto. ;))

But after preaching for an hour...she proceded to over charge me $400 for my car!!! Was it a ploy to try and rip me off?!? I think so....of course...I went back and got it fixed.

Anywho.....
 

Lefty Scaevola

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Originally posted by Adebisi
Perdonally I dont like the way America asks for God's blessing at the declaration of every war.

Not doubt it would be more effective to invoke the devil-dude's more tangible assistance, we would just have to find a volunteer to give his a soul each time.
:satan:
 

allan

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Funny, but "Thou shalt not kill" could be interpreted to mean not killing ANYTHING, including NON-humans, yet it is understood by most everybody that only humans were meant by that (well, maybe some Christians DO interpret it to mean all living things, and are the type of vegetarians that eat only fruits and such that don't involve killing plants).

So obviously as it is written, it isn't all-inclusive. Therefore, if it is shown that the old Hebrew meant "to murder", this shouldn't be hard to swallow either.

As for giving blessings, soldiers are going out into a dangerous situation. They MUST go out, that is the orders of their government, and put themselves in danger of being killed. Therefore, since many of these soldiers are believers in one god or other, I suppose the blessing would serve to comfort them somewhat, just as a blessing before climbing a mountain, entering an auto race, etc., might. As for those who don't believe, I don't think they mind necessarily either given the circumstances and that they like everyone else are working hard not to sh*t their pants at the present moment. ANY kind words would be welcome to them, methinks.
 

VoodooAce

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Originally posted by rmsharpe
When God flooded the world in order to rid the world of sin -- he killed. Does this make God a murderer, and does it make God a murderer for not saving those that have been killed?

Hhhmmm....interesting question. Maybe I'll start a new thread.
 

Toecutter

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Quote:

"Most branches of Christianity recognize the concept of a "Just War". This is, broadly speaking, a war to defend against a threat to the survival of a nation. You can pretty well rationalize any war as a just war if you want to. In the Persian Gulf in 1991 we were defending Kuwait against Saddam. In Vietnam, we were defending the South Vietnamese from the Communists. "

Yes and Lee harvey Oswald shoot Kennedy ;)
 
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