1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Dismiss Notice
  6. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

Space Colonization modmod

Discussion in 'C2C mod mods' started by pepper2000, Jan 22, 2016.

  1. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    22,572
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    These are modular edits. They are basically saying during the loading process, if any of these buildings don't have these prereqs in the core mod definitions, add these prereqs to these buildings. I've seen this kind of thing in the core file though and that should never happen, though it does, interestingly enough, seem to work out in the same manner even if it is in the same core file as the previous entry - I haven't yet 100% verified that though.
     
  2. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,211
    Location:
    Poland
    These were in core Tech Infos.
    I removed them.
     
  3. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    22,572
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Before deleting, did you ensure that the techs that were listed there had all these techs as prerequisites? If not, just update them real quick. Otherwise, yes, this kind of chafe in the file is not advised to hang onto but tends to come from merges into the core.
     
  4. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,211
    Location:
    Poland
    Yes, I checked them if they have correct prereqs.
    But then I checked them for any redundancy prereqs.
    That is if X is required by Y, that is required by Z (Y may be a lot of techs in between), and Z requires X, then I changed that so Z doesn't require X as it is indirectly required.
    I did that to all techs up to Transhuman Lifestyle.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
  5. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    22,572
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I know. It's probably a good thing to do that I've just never found important enough to do myself and therefore the kind of thing we brought you on for. It must be nice to not have to feel powerless to address these niggles eh? It's been good to have ya helping with these kinds of things.
     
    raxo2222 likes this.
  6. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,211
    Location:
    Poland
    I noticed, that Information Lifestyle and later lifestyle techs have multiple ORs equirements
    Can I change them to AND requirements and just leave single OR requirement?

    Information Era has 5 ORs: Guided Weapons, Volcanology, Space Stations, Composites, Extreme Sports.
    Nanotech Era has 5 ORs: Jovian Exploration, Marine Architecture, Affective Alghoritms, Personalized Health, Graphene Alloys.
    Transhuman Lifestyle has 6 ORs: Cloaking, Personal Robots, Lunar Trade, Designer Microbiology, Hypothetical Biochemistry, Supercharged Crystallography.
    Galactic Lifestyle: 2 ORs: Nuclear Pulse Propulsion, Nanotroids.
    Cosmic Lifestyle: 2 ORs: Neutrino Communications, Folding Space.
    Transcendent Lifestyle: Grand Unification Biology, Mensiokinesis, Fantasy Materials, Cosmic Engineering, Stable Time Lops, Tachyon Communications.

    I wrote down every tech, where I removed redundant AND prereqs, so it is easy to change techs at X lifestyle techs.
    For now I treat other OR requirements as if didn't exist, just one highlighted on tech tree, when I select AND prereq of tech, that I'm checking.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
  7. pepper2000

    pepper2000 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    790
    Were those in a separate file? Probably a vestige of when the Megacities and Nano-Architecture techs were part of the modmod.
     
  8. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,211
    Location:
    Poland
    Those were in core tech infos file.
     
  9. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    22,572
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Absolutely not please. Very intended to be OR rather than AND.
     
  10. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,211
    Location:
    Poland
    Okay.
    I guess it is to diversify tech tree as Modern and earlier lifestyle techs have only one OR prereq.
     
  11. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    22,572
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    It's a bit of a method difference between Hydro and I. Hydro wanted gateways to make it hard to not get most techs before the era's end. DH didn't want gateways because he wants techs to more commonly be capable of being routed around and left behind for a bit, if not forever if it doesn't apply. Thus he doesn't want gateway techs at all. I'm in the middle and need gateway techs more to establish that there is only one way into the era so that we have a singular tech platform for placing factors that enter play due to entering a new era. In many cases, the only reason I didn't assign all the immediately previous x-grid techs as an OR prereq was only due to a limit on how many OR prereqs could be assigned due to some poor programming choices made by much earlier programmers. (Poor because there's a better way to work with that which would've been more memory and processing efficient without having to have established a limit at all - which I'll probably fix someday if I ever get to finish my infinite projects.)

    Anyhow, Hydro set up the first ones and I set up the later ones and effectively, the diversity shift you see can be justified in other ways but largely it's just a difference in designer and our priorities and game theories.
     
    raxo2222 likes this.
  12. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,211
    Location:
    Poland
    @pepper2000 Were there any conflicts with your changes to tech tree?
    I removed redundancies including those, that you wanted to remove.
    Also I moved techs on Ygrid and switched AND/OR prereqs with each other to clean white arrows covering themselves and to connect floating techs.
     
  13. pepper2000

    pepper2000 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    790
    I don't know; I haven't take a close look yet. But I can easily work around your changes as needed.
     
    raxo2222 likes this.
  14. Snofru1

    Snofru1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    955
    Location:
    Germany
    I have pretty well advanced in my game with Kation´s Compact Space Map and have built colonies on all planets and the Kuiper region and Oort cloud. But now I am totally stuck.

    How can I settle the next region which is the moon of a far away planet? And how can I settle on this planet itself? I have absolutely no unit that can even travel there (currently researching Wormhole Traversal).

    To settle the transstellar space (which lies beyond the above mentioned moon and earthlike planet) I need a ship that can go there. I have constructed a worldship that seems to be useful for absolutely nothing. Probably I need a Genetic Seedship but how should I construct one? It needs an Interstellar Starport to be built. This can only be constructed on a Plasma and Milky Way plot. But Plasma or Milky Way can´t be reached without it (or any earlier settler unit)? I have produced a Genetic Seedship with the help of worldbuilder and some tricks but it also cannot travel across the moon and earthlike planet tiles.

    Is this more of an issue with my map (an older version of the Compact Space Map) or of the unit settings? Or of me not understanding what I need?
     
  15. KaTiON_PT

    KaTiON_PT Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    209
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portugal
    Wait for @pepper2000 input as there can be some requirement that needs to be fulfilled (remember the lunar outpost being present to build lunar cities?)

    If it is indeed a map issue then simply go to world builder and edit the necessary plots. Or if you are unable you can send me the save file and I'll do the changes for you.
     
  16. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,211
    Location:
    Poland
    It might be map issue: You can go Cislunar->Solar System->Transtellar map categories but not in reverse.
    If it is true, then TPEHEP Vertical Solar needs to be removed and should be replaced with Kations Standard Solar System space map.

    Or military units and settlers when settling cities should have map category backward compatibility:
    Cislunar settler should be able do build cities on Earth.
    Solar System/Jovian - Cislunar/Lunar map categories.
    Transtellar/Plasma - Solar System/Jovian/Mars/Venus.
    Galactic - Transtellar/Plasma.
    Universal - Galactic.

    Two step backward compatibility would be awkward:
    Solar System/Jovian/Cislunar/Lunar settlers could build cities on Earth.
    Transtellar/Plasma - Lunar and Cislunar colonies.
    Galactic - Everywhere within Solar System
    Universal - everywhere within Transtellar/Plasma.

    On this map alien Moon map category directly borders with Transtellar space.
    This map is bad design then.

    Lets see if Vertical Solar (map included with mod) is screwed beyond repair.

    Vertical Solar has Solar System->Transtellar->Lunar->Cislunar->Alien Earth->Galactic (Orion arm is missing here!)
    This means design is even worse.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    Snofru1 and KaTiON_PT like this.
  17. Snofru1

    Snofru1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    955
    Location:
    Germany
    Raxo, I like your ideas concerning backward compatibility!

    I can change the map in Worldbuilder but what exactly could I do here? Maybe build a one or 2-tile-corridor of solar system outer space through moon and alien earth?
     
  18. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,211
    Location:
    Poland
    Worldship can go trough Solar System tiles, so yes.
    Spoiler :

    Civ4BeyondSword 2018-05-16 19-10-12-01.jpg

    Hyperseedship description for city building should be updated: It can't exist in Galactic plots, so it can't build cities in Orion arm or Milky Way.

    ---
    Here is guide to space settlers:
    Spoiler Guide to Settlers :

    Cislunar Settler - Advanced Environmental Systems (X100)
    Map Categories: Cislunar
    Cities: Cislunar Space

    Lunar Settler - Lunar Colonization (X101)
    Map Categories: Cislunar, Lunar
    Cities: Moon

    Planetary Settler - Planetary Colonization (X102)
    Map Categories: Cislunar, Lunar, Solar System, Martian, Venusian
    Cities: Mars, Venus
    Cannot enter: Outer Solar System

    Martian Settler - Planetary Manufacturing (X104)
    Map Categories: Martian
    Cities: Mars

    Venus Settler - Planetary Manufacturing (X104)
    Map Categories: Venusian
    Cities: Venus

    Deep Space Settler - Deep Space Colonies (X111)
    Map Categories: Earth, Cislunar, Lunar, Solar System, Martian, Venusian, Jovian, Titanic
    Cities: Anywhere in Solar System except Cislunar Space & Moon
    Cannot Enter: Sun/Titan - Abyss Colonization (X115); Transneptunian Space - Solar Ordnance (X121)

    Worldship - Interstellar Travel (X124)
    Map Categories: Cislunar, Solar System, Transtellar, Plasma
    Cities: Oort Cloud (Feature), Transtellar, Stars (Anywhere in Transtellar zone)

    Genetic Seedship - Advanced Seedships (X132)
    Map Categories: Galactic
    Cities: Orion Arm, Stars, Star Clusters, Nebulae (Anywhere in Galaxy except Solar System)
    Cannot Enter: Milky Way/Galactic Core - Transtangible Neutrino Accelerators (X134)

    Alcubierre Seedship - Space Creasing (X138)
    Map Categories: Galactic, Universal, Distant
    Cities: Milky Way zone and beyond.
    Cannot Enter: Virgo Supercluster - Intergroup Travel (X141); Observable Universe/Intergalactic Void - Intercluster Travel (X145); Distant Cosmos - Horizon Breaking (X149)

    Hyperseedship - Dualflux Quantum Temporal Rift (X149)
    Cities: Intergalactic space and beyond.
    Cannot Enter: Distant Cosmos - Horizon Breaking (X149)

    I like how space colonization starts in 100th grid.
    Also you can colonize Unobservable Universe and Hyperspace almost once - two techs are in same column, you can even colonize hyperspace before unobservable universe!

    You spend half of Modern era and whole Information era on space exploration before space colonization.
    Modern - x = 71 - On Advanced Rocketry (X81) space business takes off, dead center in tech tree.
    Information - x = 86 - Space program is doing exploration and space stations
    Nanotech - x = 99 - Cislunar, Moon, Mars, Venus.
    Transhuman - x = 110 - Solar System
    Galactic - x = 123 - Galaxy
    Cosmic - x = 137 - Universe
    Transcendent - x = 148 - Final Frontier

    It is safe to assume, that Deep Space settlers are using fusion reactors to get to places.
    Planetary Settlers might use high tech fission or early fusion reactors.
    Beam networks for launching from Earth may be already existing by time you start Mars colonization.
    As for Lunar/Cislunar settlers efficient chemical rockets may be used.
    They are built in space anyway.

    How does trading with Venus floating colony work?
    Spaceplanes capable of starting and landing on Venus colony are a thing at Orbital Flight (X108), and you can make Venus colonies at X104
    That is hovering, using atmosphere itself as fuel, and then having enough DeltaV to travel directly between Earth/Mars/Venus.
    And they are using space rated nuclear reactors for that.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    Snofru1 and KaTiON_PT like this.
  19. pepper2000

    pepper2000 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    790
    It is an issue with how the maps is constructed, though it is also a sign to me that the space settlers should be more flexible and able to handle maps that are different from how I envisioned them at the start. To fix the issue on your end, I suggest going to the C2C modmod folder and navigating to Assets/Modules/pepper2000. Looks for the units file, find the Worldship unit, and give it all map categories so it can hop over to the galaxy.
     
    KaTiON_PT likes this.
  20. KaTiON_PT

    KaTiON_PT Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    209
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portugal
    How did you envision them?
     

Share This Page