Space Force

[Timsup2nothin]

By "militarizing space" I mean exploiting it for military purposes that increase capability beyond what is available by other means. For example, running a herd of road mobile launchers so that you can deploy a squad of special forces somewhere downrange...how far? How fast? If the answers to those questions are not remarkable improvements on what can currently be done using air drops by conventional aircraft then what would be the point?

By the way, "found it unworkable" is a way to say "identified the primary obstacle" when you are trying to sound like you aren't really that interested in dropping metal telephone poles from space on anyone. If I read the tea leaves correctly the obstacle is that there is no available guidance past a point that is very early in the reentry, making it far too heavy on the 'fire and forget' scale. You have a very small window to make adjustments and after that it is going to hit where it is going to hit. Atmospheric variables make it impossible to narrow down exactly where that is going to be to a small enough range. So, the direction of development needs to be guidance with better survivability that can be applied further into reentry, or improved understanding of atmospheric effects and how they impact trajectory. Either way, do you really see the US military just giving up on something that they knicknamed "the rod from God"? Man, they are clearly infatuated with this idea.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

If the answers to those questions are not remarkable improvements on what can currently be done using air drops by conventional aircraft then what would be the point?

I think I said earlier in the thread I think this is a bad idea overall and not feasible with current technology, I've just been entertaining the hypothetical for lulz.

If space technology continues developing at the pace it saw from 2010-2020 for another decade or two, I think both drop pods and rods from god will be on the table feasibility-wise. This decade saw some insane growth and development for the industry. Really remarkable stuff.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I think I said earlier in the thread I think this is a bad idea overall and not feasible with current technology, I've just been entertaining the hypothetical for lulz.

If space technology continues developing at the pace it saw from 2010-2020 for another decade or two, I think both drop pods and rods from god will be on the table feasibility-wise. This decade saw some insane growth and development for the industry. Really remarkable stuff.

Drop pods are really up against strong current capacity. Airplanes can insert a team pretty much anywhere on a very reasonable timeline, and a submarine can insert a team undetected on any coast desired. I can't see any way for drop pods to compete in regards to detection, so the only thing they can possibly do is cover more ground faster than conventional aircraft.

Kinetic energy weapons though, that's a game changer if you can make them work. It swings the economics back from the far wrong end that missiles have taken it to towards the heady days when guns and just spraying ammo like there's no tomorrow ruled.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Drop pods offer 30-90 flight times to anywhere on Earth from the continental US. Planes can't match that. Drop pods would also be very difficult to detect without a globe-spanning surveillance network which is not true of most air raids. Most traditional radar installations would not pick them up until the final ~2 minutes of flight, if they picked it up at all. And that's without doing anything notable to be stealthy. And if you are anyone but Russia or China*, you would not detect the launch either.


*Maybe the EU. I'm not that well read on their spy satellite network.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Drop pods offer 30-90 flight times to anywhere on Earth from the continental US. Planes can't match that. Drop pods would also be very difficult to detect without a globe-spanning surveillance network which is not true of most air raids. Most traditional radar installations would not pick them up until the final ~2 minutes of flight, if they picked it up at all. And that's without doing anything notable to be stealthy. And if you are anyone but Russia or China, you would not detect the launch either.

Key words "from the continental US," but they don't really matter. I doubt there is a hot spot on earth right now that is much beyond our ability to insert a squad in a ninety minute flight time from somewhere that we are staged and ready. Then it devolves to launch time. That squad and conventional aircraft can be airborne and starting the flight time counting down pretty darn quick.

 

[uppi]

Lasers have been a let down across the board. The atmosphere causes too much interference with them and reflective coatings reduces their effectiveness. Maybe one day it'll be a viable anti-missile defense but that day is a ways off in the future. Remember that Reagan's Star Wars laser system depending on exploding nuclear weapons to pump a single-use x-ray laser and even that was a miserable failure. Conventional lasers at that scale are even harder.

Yeah, people tend to overestimate the long-range damage output of lasers. Doing damage to metal with a laser is hard enough from 10 cm away. From 10 km away it is a really tall order.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Yes, the US can reach many places on Earth quickly but not all of them and not necessarily easily. I think we tend to take for granted how much infrastructure the US government is paying to maintain all over the world to support those capabilities. If you could scale that global infrastructure back and still retain global reach, it's a win win. You save money and piss off less locals who don't want the airbases.

Yeah, people tend to overestimate the long-range damage output of lasers. Doing damage to metal with a laser is hard enough from 10 cm away. From 10 km away it is a really tall order.

Through the atmosphere against objects moving at hypersonic velocities, often with their own plasma sheaths from re-entry that are optically opaque.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yes, the US can reach many places on Earth quickly but not all of them and not necessarily easily. I think we tend to take for granted how much infrastructure the US government is paying to maintain all over the world to support those capabilities. If you could scale that global infrastructure back and still retain global reach, it's a win win. You save money and piss off less locals who don't want the airbases.

We would be maintaining the infrastructure anyway, because pissing off the locals is a feature, not a bug.

 

[r16]

Russia started the hypersonic missiles program after US withdrew from ABM treaty.

can't be true , because ı was reading secondhand military magazines in late 1980s that called on the US to accelarate their boost glide weapons , Mach 20 and above , because the Russians already had the lead . These things do not come cheap , but Russians might have fielded almost the same by 2000s , maybe , without the the meltdown of the 1990s .

 

[red_elk]

can't be true , because ı was reading secondhand military magazines in late 1980s that called on the US to accelarate their boost glide weapons , Mach 20 and above , because the Russians already had the lead . These things do not come cheap , but Russians might have fielded almost the same by 2000s , maybe , without the the meltdown of the 1990s .

They could, as well as they could put them on the shelf forever. But we apparently need these projects alive again, so here we are.

 

[r16]

true enough , but one also has to remind Putin that he is not god or something , taking a dozen billion or more project out of the shelf like it's a banana or something .

 

[GamezRule]

So one weekend a month and two weeks a year we are gonna shoot you into space?

My guess is that the operational tempo for the SNG and Space Force Reserve would be much higher, similar to the 19th and 20th SF Group (NG Special Forces), Army National Guard aviation units, and the Air National Guard in general. Opportunity for temporary active duty tours would also likely be plentiful, and the majority of the service members probably would have some sort of government or corporate job. I mean, the Air National Guard already has a several states with Space Command units, so whatever they're doing already will just continue for now. I've only been in the Army National Guard, but from what I've been told from those that are in the Air National Guard, the ANG is much better integrated with the Air Force as a whole than the Army. The Army is only recently moving to a "Total Force" strategy.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I wonder what Space Force uniforms and their seal will look like?

 

[Broken_Erika]

I wonder what Space Force uniforms and their seal will look like?

I wanted to post something but i can't find it. It was a series of space force rank insignia consisting of various length long smooth rockets complete with 2 balls. Stupid google, no matter how i word it, google returns the exact same search results.

 

[Commodore]

I wonder what Space Force uniforms and their seal will look like?

It's still just a concept though...

 

[hobbsyoyo]

What is a bit odd to me is that the enabling act specifically forbid the Space Force from acquiring the space-related units and functions of all other branches than the Air Force.

 

[GamezRule]

I wanted to post something but i can't find it. It was a series of space force rank insignia consisting of various length long smooth rockets complete with 2 balls. Stupid google, no matter how i word it, google returns the exact same search results.

That's the future emblem of the Space Marines.

What is a bit odd to me is that the enabling act specifically forbid the Space Force from acquiring the space-related units and functions of all other branches than the Air Force.

It's a gradual process. Probably the same reason why right now the Space Force is under the Department of the Air Force.

 

[uppi]

What is a bit odd to me is that the enabling act specifically forbid the Space Force from acquiring the space-related units and functions of all other branches than the Air Force.

It is likely a concession to get the approval of those who do not care what the air force does as long as their own area remains untouched. It also limits the infighting over manpower and funding, which is inevitable for such a restructuring process, to the air force only, so they can move ahead much faster.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

It's a gradual process. Probably the same reason why right now the Space Force is under the Department of the Air Force.

It will almost certainly remain under the Air Force forever. I mean until we're building space battleships or creating large off-planet military bases at least. If that happens then who knows? But that's decades off, if ever.

It is likely a concession to get the approval of those who do not care what the air force does as long as their own area remains untouched. It also limits the infighting over manpower and funding, which is inevitable for such a restructuring process, to the air force only, so they can move ahead much faster.

I agree. It's also likely the case that the space components of the other branches are very small compared to the Air Force's share and thus isn't worth contesting.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

The first leader of the USSF was sworn in today.

There's a lot of lobbying going on to get the new services headquarters located in various states. It is alleged that Floridian and Alabaman officials have been spending a lot of time in Trump properties to get the Space Force headquarters at Kennedy or Huntsville, respectively. I blasted my reps on Resistbot to get them to lobby to have the headquarters put in LA or Vandy.