Spanish Judge issues arrest warrant for US soldiers in Iraq

[wit>trope]

Could anyone tell me of a case where America did this to Spain? like a case where America issued warrants for the arrest of Spanish soldiers? or where America did this to any other country? Why can't Spain cooperate with America just like Italy did?

 

[Kyriakos]

Cierdan you appear to be having difficulty making the distinction between yourself and the Usa. This is something very common in many russians too. They have massive difficulty making the clear ditinction between themselves and their country. This leads to the person being unable to critisize the country.
The Usa is vast, but it is not part of you.

 

[wit>trope]

From the intial post:

"Under Spanish law, a crime committed against a Spaniard abroad can be prosecuted here if it is not investigated in the country where it is committed."

The judge just follows the law. The USA would not allow a trial with Couso family as acusation in the USA.

It says "can" not "must". That means the judge had discretion. He abused it.

 

[Stapel]

Could anyone tell me of a case where America did this to Spain? like a case where America issued warrants for the arrest of Spanish soldiers? or where America did this to any other country? Why can't Spain cooperate with America just like Italy did?

This year a Dutchman was sent to the US, to stand trial for a crime he had committed in NL.
It was about drugs, so he was not a soldier. But who cares?

 

[Jorge]

It says "can" not "must". That means the judge had discretion. He abused it.

The family asked for it, so he did not abuse it. What would be an abuse would be to deny Couso´s family a right that they have by law.

 

[wit>trope]

This year a Dutchman was sent to the US, to stand trial for a crime he had committed in NL.
It was about drugs, so he was not a soldier. But who cares?

You say "sent to the US" that means NL voluntarily sent him to the US, right? Don't you see the difference (apart from the solidier issue)?

 

[Jorge]

Could anyone tell me of a case where America did this to Spain? like a case where America issued warrants for the arrest of Spanish soldiers? or where America did this to any other country? Why can't Spain cooperate with America just like Italy did?

Didnt the USA use a rocket to kill a terrorist in Yemen? Not only the USA got the guy to trial him, he was sentenced to death and executed in a foreign country, which in my opinion is by far worse.

 

[wit>trope]

The family asked for it, so he did not abuse it. What would be an abuse would be to deny Couso´s family a right that they have by law.

Ok that's your opinion and I have mine. I feel badly for the family but the judge has to weigh the wishes of America (and I would hope also the Spanish govt) too and frankly the wishes of America and American-Spanish relations are much more important than the rights of one family. The judge had a choice as you now seem to admit. He made his choice. He made the wrong choice.

 

[wit>trope]

Didnt the USA use a rocket to kill a terrorist in Yemen? Not only the USA got the guy to trial him, he was sentenced to death and executed in a foreign country, which in my opinion is by far worse.

Jeez, I can't believe you would compare American soldiers with terrorists!

This probably was done with Yemen permission. And besides Yemen is not an ally while Spain supposedly is.

 

[Samson]

I thought I read somewhere that due to the amount of media in the building the incident was filmed by a number of crews, and it did not look like the tank was under fire.

I cannot find a link now, but I expect it was on the bbc site.

[EDIT] I found it. It is at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4357684.stm

US officials say the tank crew believed they were being shot at when they opened fire, although TV footage of the incident did not record any incoming fire.

The incident was witnessed on TV around the world on the day before the fall of the regime of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, as the Palestine was the base for almost all the foreign media crews in Baghdad.

 

[Jorge]

Ok that's your opinion and I have mine. I feel badly for the family but the judge has to weigh the wishes of America (and I would hope also the Spanish govt) too and frankly the wishes of America and American-Spanish relations are much more important than the rights of one family. The judge had a choice as you now seem to admit. He made his choice. He made the wrong choice.

He made a choice based on the law and justice. You are asking him to make a choice based on politics. I would rather not see judges making political decisions. Can you imaging a judge refusing on his own to make a trial to some politican because it could cause some instability in the country? No, please, let politics stay out of the justice system (as much as possible).

 

[Jorge]

Jeez, I can't believe you would compare American soldiers with terrorists!

For the law, all people is equal. All people deserve a fair trial and that´s the end of it (no matter if you are a terrorist, a murderer or the best person in the world).

You are questioning basic principles of the law.

 

[Stapel]

You say "sent to the US" that means NL voluntarily sent him to the US, right? Don't you see the difference (apart from the solidier issue)?

Of course, the US justice department had sent a warrant. The warrant was 'approved' by a Dutch court.

It wasn't left unanswered, as seems to be the case here.

 

[wit>trope]

He made a choice based on the law and justice. You are asking him to make a choice based on politics. I would rather not see judges making political decisions. Can you imaging a judge refusing on his own to make a trial to some politican because it could cause some instability in the country? No, please, let politics stay out of the justice system (as much as possible).

OK good point.

But,

It is justice to give deference and courtesy to an ostensible friend and ally

and

It is justice to honor the military of a friend and ally by allowing them to conduct their own investigation and assuming their good faith

and

It is injustice to prevent the American soldiers from travelling overseas especially if they may have families overseas or friends overseas

and

It is injustice to place the rights of a few above the rights of the many and the rights of a family above the rights of all families which make up the nation and the nation's friend

and

It is hubris to do something that no other country does -- the example of the Dutchman involved someone apparently voluntarily sent

 

[Thorgalaeg]

I know but the Italians didn't like try to have American soldiers arrested did they? And they agreed to and were quite happy about America inviting them to do a joint investigation ... why can't Spain do the same thing?



If Spain wanted to have people involved in a joint investigation, I have zero doubt the US would have agreed. Why is Spain "better" than Italy? Is what's good enough for Italy not good enough for Spain?

Spain is the only country in the world that does something like this (besides maybe fundamenlist Muslim countries).

So no judges in any country in the world issue arrest warrant for USA citizens? What makes this case so special?

If a spanish soldier had killed a citizen from USA in so suspicious circumstances i have not doubt you would be claiming for an inmediate extradition, death penalty, invading Spain and such crap. In such case however i would not see a problem with that spanish soldier being properly judged here or in USA (with the needed judicial guarantees obviously). However that will never occur, right? The killer is allways an USA soldier.

 

[Kyriakos]

Ok that's your opinion and I have mine. I feel badly for the family but the judge has to weigh the wishes of America (and I would hope also the Spanish govt) too and frankly the wishes of America and American-Spanish relations are much more important than the rights of one family. The judge had a choice as you now seem to admit. He made his choice. He made the wrong choice.

Cierdan, you are simply acting here. I am sure you do not feel one thing about the family. Contrary to them (who are human) you are dwelling in your own little world where countries are understood like people, and you have feelings towards them, and also go on to speak of relations between them as if they were children in a school Let me repeat to you that your country is not part of you. Perhaps you should start thinking that your life is not the USA. Im sure the Usa is a wonderfull country, and many americans are fine, but you appear to be out of touch with reality. It is a known phenomenon in psychology that people who live in either big in size, or very rich/powerfull etc, or even rich culturally, countries, sometimes (if other parameters of their character allow for it ofcourse) identify with their countries, so as to avoid identifying with parts of themselves, which they do not like at all.

 

[wit>trope]

Of course, the US justice department had sent a warrant. The warrant was 'approved' by a Dutch court.

Ok good. So Spain should wait for approval by US as well just like America did with NL. If the Dutch court hadn't approved it, would America have like arrested the man anyways? I don't think so. America is not like that. Only Spain is

 

[Stapel]

It is hubris to do something that no other country does -- the example of the Dutchman involved someone apparently voluntarily sent

No, the US justice department sent a warrant.
Just like this Spanish judge sent a warrant.

You don't seriously think the US justice department would NOT send a warrant when an American journalist would be killed by a German soldier in Afghanistan?

 

[wit>trope]

If a spanish soldier had killed a citizen from USA in so suspicious circumstances i have not doubt you would be claiming for an inmediate extradition

I'd be calling for immediate extradition, not for taking the Spanish soldier without Spain's permission.

The killer is allways an USA soldier.

What an enlightened comment

 

[Jorge]

OK good point.

But,

It is justice to give deference and courtesy to an ostensible friend and ally

and

It is justice to honor the military of a friend and ally by allowing them to conduct their own investigation and assuming their good faith

and

It is injustice to prevent the American soldiers from travelling overseas especially if they may have families overseas or friends overseas

and

It is injustice to place the rights of a few above the rights of the many and the rights of a family above the rights of all families which make up the nation and the nation's friend

and

It is hubris to do something that no other country does -- the example of the Dutchman involved someone apparently voluntarily sent

Well, as I said before:

"Under Spanish law, a crime committed against a Spaniard abroad can be prosecuted here if it is not investigated in the country where it is committed."

The crime has not been investigated neither in the USA nor Iraq. There has not been any trial. I´m not saying these soldiers are guilty. I just say they have killed a person an a judge should decide if it was a crime or not. That´s how justice works. But no trial has been held in the USA despite it was asked. So, under the spanish law, if it´s not investigated in the USA, it will be investigated in Spain.