Specilist Stragety Help? Advice?

[kniteowl]

Anybody here who tried out or have any experience with the specilist stragety?
Any Advice or Help Will be Gladly Appreciated, someone should put up a Stragety Article on this stragety.

NOTE NO COTTAGE SPAMMING!!!

Help for things for example

techs to beeline to? eg - drama, codes of law, civil service, Biology
Best leaders to use? Saladin, Mao, Freddick

 

[Mutineer]

The optimum strategy tend to be a mixed one.

We still need gold/research/turn to research what needed.
Main benefit of specialists come from Greate person they generate.
Greate Person offer to research surtan technologies in sertan conditions.

So, what tech to beeline should be connected with type of GP you try to generate, or multiply posible types.

Greate Scientists probably the easiest one.
He will Offer Philosofy if you know Math and any of philosofy prerequisites (Dramma or Col). Philosofy give Taoism (If first) and Pacifism +100% to GP generation.

Next good uses for GS is Education to speed up Liberalism slingshot.

Greate Prophet is an other attractive GP.

If you know Col and Meditation+Poliutheism and do not know Masonry it will offer 1000+ to civil service. So, on hight dificulty you can use Oracle for Col and generate GP for civil service.

Agter that usefull options will be Philosofy and Music (Special conditions apply).

Greate Merchant is next in line.
GM will Offer if you know currency Mettalocasting-Civil service-Mashinery (Subject to prerequisites) and can be used to speed up south pach.

GA could be used to get Music-Nationalism

But you still need some commerce for basic research and civilisation support power.

 

[Oggums]

You could get by with just merchants and scientists. Specialists have the largest effect at the very beginning of the game. The advantage of specialists, aside from the great person points, is that you can get some decent output from a food rich plot right now, instead of taking the time to develop towns. But in the end, specialists-only cities will never compete with having some really nice commerce/town cities instead, given the same populations.

If you want the best output, you have to work those cottages. If you just want to play with specialists, drop down a level and go for it.

If you know Col and Meditation+Poliutheism and do not know Masonry it will offer 1000+ to civil service. So, on hight dificulty you can use Oracle for Col and generate GP for civil service.

I am hopelessly addicted to this, for any non-Philosophical leaders. With Oracle points and a priest from a Confucian temple, you can get Civil Service fairly quickly. With Philo I like to go with scientists/great library.

 

[Pzyber]

A friend of mine has developed a tactic he call Mordor.

As fast as he gets the communism he converts to the State Property civic and starts to create workshops at all spots around the city.

While the State Property gives you one extra hammer from each workshop and removes the less food penalty you can keep having large cities while you will have a massive production.

When i played against him i had no change when he introduced that tactic for me. For example he was able to produce tanks in 1 turn in almost every city he had.

 

[GABB]

A friend of mine has developed a tactic he call Mordor.

As fast as he gets the communism he converts to the State Property civic and starts to create workshops at all spots around the city.

While the State Property gives you one extra hammer from each workshop and removes the less food penalty you can keep having large cities while you will have a massive production.

When i played against him i had no change when he introduced that tactic for me. For example he was able to produce tanks in 1 turn in almost every city he had.

Welcome to civfanatic's team...

 

[GABB]

Anybody here who tried out or have any experience with the specilist stragety?
Any Advice or Help Will be Gladly Appreciated, someone should put up a Stragety Article on this stragety.

NOTE NO COTTAGE SPAMMING!!!

Help for things for example

techs to beeline to? eg - drama, codes of law, civil service, Biology
Best leaders to use? Saladin, Mao, Freddick

My strat:

- Farms are less critical to your economy in cases of pillages.
- Under Representation each specialist gives you +3 beakers
- With Sistine Chapel, each specialist gives you + culture
- With Angkor Wat, each PRIEST gives you +1 hammer
- With Philosophical Leaders, you have +100% GPP in all cities.
- With Parthenon, you have +50% GPP in all cities.
- With Mercantilism + Statue of Liberty you get 2 specialists per city.
- With Great Library, you get 2 free scientists.
- With Caste System, you can run Unlimited Artist – scientist and merchants (without infrastructure)
- If you decide to play specialist’s economy, try to balance your GPP in all cities with enough food. This is better than only 1 GPF (many people think that I’m wrong, but the mathematic is an exact science). You MUST balance your GPP in the most of cities.

Considering this, each specialist produce:

Scientist: +6 beakers + 2 culture + 10 GPP*
Merchant: +3 gold + 3 beakers + 2 culture + 10 GPP*
Artist: + 3 beakers + 6 culture + 10 GPP*
Priest: +1 gold + 2 hammer + 3 beakers + 2 culture + 10 GPP*
Engineer: +2 hammer + 3 beakers + 2 culture + 10 GPP*

And GP joining cities:

Super Scientist: +9 beakers + 2 culture + 1 hammer
Super Merchant: +6 gold + 3 beakers + 2 culture + 1
Super Artist: +6 gold + 3 beakers + 14 culture
Super Priest: +5 gold + 3 hammer + 3 beakers + 2 culture
Super Engineer: +3 hammer + 6 beakers + 2 culture

* NOTE: Without National Epic Wonder in the city.

This work for me with Alex / Prince / Terra / Large Map (without a single cottage)

 

[hamfist]

Since rapid expansion creates a maintenace nightmare, trying to expand rapidly is very difficult without destroying production of Science/Gold. If you have high food cities by the time code of laws comes about, try this: Caste System+Specialists. City 1 gets scientists, City 2 gets merchants. In addition to generating a ton of Great Person points, you'll find that you can get a science rate that keeps you competitive at 0% to 30% science rate, and a maintainable 30% science rate with many more cities. A lot of this will depend on what you are trying to do. A mix of farms for running specialists when your science slider is low, and cottages to switch to when the slider is high will produce better results early on. On Monarch I improve almost every tile that I can with a variety of improvements, and change the worked tiles depending on the situation. As the city grows due to increased happiness, the improvements will change to reflect the cities true specialization.

If you manage to get the Pyramids, running specialists with Representation becomes even more of an option. A high food+Caste System+Representation+Specialists combo can produce a ton of Science or Gold with 0% research rate.

 

[kniteowl]

Been Playing the specilist Stragety and I found that HEALTH is limiting factor unlike my cottage spamming games if you go over your health limit you lose some of your surplus food therefore you use less specilist so this stragety has another weakness that you have to continuiously macro-manage checking your cities for their health limit, getting happiness is relatively easy... +2 from Rep, Culture Silder, Happiness Resources so expansive Civs are a great help in this Stragety.

Note havn't completed my game currently researching Lib, I'm playing on Prince with Mao Org/Phil (normally play on Monarch when i cottage Spam) And I'm WAY AHEAD IN TECH with this Stragety I have 5 to 8 Techs Ahead of the AI Maybe I'll try this Steragety Out on Monarch level after completing the Prince game with Peter Exp/Phil

Wait I know why I'm so Ahead in Tech... There were no Financial Civs on my continent (there were 3 other Civs) I'll Try another Game Playing Against All 7 Financial Civs with this Stragety LOL

 

[DarkFyre99]

Anybody here who tried out or have any experience with the specilist stragety?
Any Advice or Help Will be Gladly Appreciated, someone should put up a Stragety Article on this stragety.

NOTE NO COTTAGE SPAMMING!!!

Help for things for example

techs to beeline to? eg - drama, codes of law, civil service, Biology
Best leaders to use? Saladin, Mao, Freddick

I've been playing around with it the last two games, so here's a few of my impressions:

First and foremost, you need to be using the Representation Civic. That +3 beakers per specialist is a must. Otherwise, cottages are a better choice. Ideally, you should beeline for Pyramids to get Representation as soon as possible.

Second, Caste System is quite useful as well, since your scientists and merchants are taking the place of your cottages, you want a lot of them.
Not to mention you'll be needing Code of Laws for your courthouses soon anyways. This means that it might be worth investing in the Oracle for a Code of Laws slingshot.

Third, with all these specialists, you should maximize your GPP output. Try for Parthenon as soon as possible.

Since your population will be larger than usual, health is a major obsticle. You need health... lots and lots of health.

Likewise, you'll have problems with happiness. Drama should be higher on your priorities than normal, so you can pump up your culture rate. You'll have very little commerce, so it won't cost you quite as much as normal.

With a much higher culture rate than normal, you might consider keeping with the Merchantalism Civic for the free specialist.

The Philosophical trait is useful, since you'll be running lots of specialists.

On the other hand, Industrial is useful trait since the specialist strategy tends to be more Wonder dependant than normal (especially pyramids). Needless to say, no leader combines both traits, since they're extremely synnergetic.

Whatever you do, don't get the financial trait, since you won't be taking advantage of it.

 

[theimmortal1]

I find heriditary rule to very useful also. I usually make one to three GP farms, and the limiting factor especially early in the game is happiness. Herid rule takes that totally out of play. Can easily have populations in the high teens extremely early in the game with no angry workers. That equates to quite a few specialists.

Plus doing this forces me to keep a good military, which is usually the most vital thing.

 

[Araqiel]

My strat:

- Farms are less critical to your economy in cases of pillages.
- Under Representation each specialist gives you +3 beakers
- With Sistine Chapel, each specialist gives you + culture
- With Angkor Wat, each PRIEST gives you +1 hammer
- With Philosophical Leaders, you have +100% GPP in all cities.
- With Parthenon, you have +50% GPP in all cities.
- With Mercantilism + Statue of Liberty you get 2 specialists per city.
- With Great Library, you get 2 free scientists.
- With Caste System, you can run Unlimited Artist – scientist and merchants (without infrastructure)
- If you decide to play specialist’s economy, try to balance your GPP in all cities with enough food. This is better than only 1 GPF (many people think that I’m wrong, but the mathematic is an exact science). You MUST balance your GPP in the most of cities.

Considering this, each specialist produce:

Scientist: +6 beakers + 2 culture + 10 GPP*
Merchant: +3 gold + 3 beakers + 2 culture + 10 GPP*
Artist: + 3 beakers + 6 culture + 10 GPP*
Priest: +1 gold + 2 hammer + 3 beakers + 2 culture + 10 GPP*
Engineer: +2 hammer + 3 beakers + 2 culture + 10 GPP*

And GP joining cities:

Super Scientist: +9 beakers + 2 culture + 1 hammer
Super Merchant: +6 gold + 3 beakers + 2 culture + 1
Super Artist: +6 gold + 3 beakers + 14 culture
Super Priest: +5 gold + 3 hammer + 3 beakers + 2 culture
Super Engineer: +3 hammer + 6 beakers + 2 culture

* NOTE: Without National Epic Wonder in the city.

This work for me with Alex / Prince / Terra / Large Map (without a single cottage)

Thats a lot of wonders, what exactly is the purpose of collecting them all? What sort of victory do you aim for?

Also why do you find it so valuable to balance GPP numbers?

 

[Araqiel]

Third, with all these specialists, you should maximize your GPP output. Try for Parthenon as soon as possible.

Actually if you're running a philosophical leader then you shouldn't bother with the Parthenon. The relative gain is signifigantly less, and it comes at the same time as several other wonders that are more useful, namely the Pyramids and the Oracle.

Just run the Pacificism civic, you can use one of your many Great Scientists to grab philosophy early.

I still don't see why some people are so very hostile to cottages though.

 

[Araqiel]

A friend of mine has developed a tactic he call Mordor.

As fast as he gets the communism he converts to the State Property civic and starts to create workshops at all spots around the city.

While the State Property gives you one extra hammer from each workshop and removes the less food penalty you can keep having large cities while you will have a massive production.

When i played against him i had no change when he introduced that tactic for me. For example he was able to produce tanks in 1 turn in almost every city he had.

What sort of map are you playing on? Modern era seems awfully long for a MP game.

 

[Araqiel]

Been Playing the specilist Stragety and I found that HEALTH is limiting factor unlike my cottage spamming games

Specialist strategy

I'm not too surpised you've jumped out to a lead in the early game. A conventional economy really comes into its own once you get printing press and town enhancing civics. Plus it takes a more time to grow towns in all of your cities.

I haven't found health to be too large a problem except in strange maps where I lack a normal amount of food resources. Its a soft cap anyways so usually you can get your city as big as is efficient with just HR providing most of your happiness.

 

[kniteowl]

Just Completed my 1st Specilist Stragety Game With Mao Org/Phil, Won via Space Race

Problems to work on in the game I've Noticed is During the Middle Ages Pre-Medicine my biggest limitation was health because if i surpassed my health limit i'd lose that excess food surplus which I'd use towards my speclist so Maybe I'd try out Peter Exp/Phil, I always thought the Exp trait was very weak but maybe for certain situations like this it'd be an advantage being able to grow over the 12-15 population limit because of my health.

Post Emancipation (note: when your AI opponents researches Democracy and switch to the Emancipation Civic NOT YOU yourself) Happiness Become a Major Factor I'd usually have a -10 WE DEMAND EMANCIPATION and I was limited to growing my cities to about size 25 max (Except for my Science City Where I built the Gobal Threater & Oxford University SIZE 33!!!) and I was running my culture silder at 40% with threaters and Collosiums (which is actually +10 We Enjoy Our entertainment) built in all my cities... I don't know if the AI was onto my happiness limitation around this time but most of them decided to stop trading their happiness resources with me during my spaceship construction. The AI's I traded with were at least Pleased or Higher towards me (there was 1 war but they were definitely winning)

In the end I ended up with these 5 Civics

Representation, Nationhood, Cast System, Enviromentalism, Pacifism

Why Nationhood? and not Bureaucracy?

Well my capital was a Science city so That extra +50% Coins wasn't helping and +50% Hammers was't that much of a deal as i windmilled my entire empire apart from resources. The reason why I Chose Nationhood was the +2 happiness from Barracks which Relly help my cities ALOT for at least for another 30 turns untill unhappy citizen decided to appear. Maybe in my Next game I'll use Bureaucrarcy and Keep my Capital as a Merc City.

And why Enviromentalism and not Mercantilism? well I didn't relly need an extra specilist that badly as I already Constructed Statue of Liberity and your crazy if you can have healthy size 25 cities without Enviromentalism even if you do beeline to Refrigeration you still have to build Forges, factories, Labs and Powerplants, by the time you get to ecology to remove those unhealthy buildings your alredy halfway through the constrcution of your spaceship parts so there's no point. It might be possible to not use the enviromentalism civic if your an Expansive Civ like Peter.

One of my mistakes was to mindmill all my hills lol I thought I could grow my population to the max untill I realized about that happiness limit. I'll remember to mine my hills where there's excess food in my next game.

Oh yea I Was Poping Great People like Crazy, If I didn't win my Game I would of Poped my next Great Person at 5800GPP in the next Dozen turns and I won my Spaceship race with 3 Consecutive Golden Ages I had So many Great People to use that I decided to save them at the end for golden ages lol i built all my spaceship parts in like 24 turns or something lol!

OH yea I changed to Democracy Civic to 5 turns to qucik buy all my relervant national Wonders maybe I'll also try Saladan next with his Spi/Phil Traits I can Change from Rep and Demo to quick buy buildings lol near the end of the game i was wondering What'd I'd do with my 5000 gold especially wen i was running at 100% in the positive (60% 40%).

I'll test this stragety again this Time Against all Financial Civs Maybe on Prince( again) then Monarch and Possibly Emp. Be very interesting I might write an article on this stragety lol! anywayz thanks everyone for the advice!!!

 

[Araqiel]

The +50% is hammers and commerce from Bureaucracy. Not coins, it multiplies the total commerce generated by the city. Therefore it affects both flasks output and gold output from your capital.

 

[kniteowl]

Really??? Whenever I check my Commerce and Science Output for a City in this case my capital under Bureaucracy I only see an extra 50% for commerce and not Science... I'll go check and Test it out later lol my Final exams are comming up maybe ALOT later.

 

[GABB]

Thats a lot of wonders, what exactly is the purpose of collecting them all? What sort of victory do you aim for??

The purpose is get the more of each specialist, but you don't need all, is only an advice. And my victory was Dominatoin.

Also why do you find it so valuable to balance GPP numbers?

I used to believe that “concentrate your GPP in a single GPF is the way to go”. This is because “only your city with more GPP + NE bonus produces GPP faster and catches the new threshold before many cities”. This is “absolutely true”, and your GPPs in another cities are wasted. However, if you keep balanced your GPP (don’t build NE or built it in your city with less GPP production), this is not true.

I know that sound counterintuitive: “Put your bonus where you get less bonus!!!!”. You really get less GPP Bonus in that city, BUT you don’t waste GPP in all the remaining cities, allowing to 5-6 cities produce GP instead 1 (or maybe too).

An example:

Suppose Philosophical civ + Parthenon + Pacifism.

- 5 cities (each with 3 specialists) produce 14 GP in 100 turns.
- 1 city (with 5 specialists + NE) produce 10 GP in 100 turn.

4 more GP in 100 turns is great (IMO).

To support 3 specialists you need +6 food, this is:

- 6-7 grassland farms (18-21 food/turn and 9-10 population).
- 2 sea resources (10 food and 5 population).
- 3 floodplain farms (12 food and 6 population).
- 2 5-food-resources (10 food and 5 population).

To support 5 specialists you need +6 food, this is:

- 10-11 grassland farms (30-33 food/turn and 15-16 population).
- 3 sea resources + 1 Farm (18 food and 9 population).
- 5 floodplain farms (20 food and 10 population).
- 3 5-food-resources + 1 Farm (18 food and 9 population).

And you are not limited to 5 cities, you can find more locations and add cities to “the race” (in this race, all run at the same speed and when somebody arrive to the goal, it start a new race…)

I do it on Prince with Alex/Terra/Large Map/Random Civs/Default # of AI (without Pyramid). I don’t try on Monarch.....yet…

 

[jayron32]

The diffuse GPP strategy (as opposed to the GP Farm strategy) works because a) you can stagger your GP production a little better and b) you can specialize each city towards a particular GP.

The GP Farm works in situations where 1 city is a FAR superior GP producer than the others, and it will bump the GP limit faster than the other cities catch up.

The multi-GP city plan works where you can keep all cities relatively similar in GP Points production. In this case, your GPs will actually come slightly faster. The problem is that on many maps, finding more than 1 really good GP producing site is tough.

 

[GABB]

The diffuse GPP strategy (as opposed to the GP Farm strategy) works because a) you can stagger your GP production a little better and b) you can specialize each city towards a particular GP.

The GP Farm works in situations where 1 city is a FAR superior GP producer than the others, and it will bump the GP limit faster than the other cities catch up.

The multi-GP city plan works where you can keep all cities relatively similar in GP Points production. In this case, your GPs will actually come slightly faster. The problem is that on many maps, finding more than 1 really good GP producing site is tough.

I agree. My point is: If your economy will be based in specialists, you will not want to waste all those GPP in many cities… In a map with a lot of desert and tundra, cottage spam is hard too...