Speculating on (Historical) Civ Progression

[Josephias]

Yes, Ottomans - Turkey Republic and Tsarist Rusia - Soviets are two plausible Exploration to Modern choices.

Ironically both share some historic claims to be "succesors" to the Antiquity Roman Empire. Altough both claims being flimsy due to similarity of cultures, they are probably even stronger (historically) than the commented Rome->Normans

 

[Krajzen]

Probably into nothing or Atatürks Turkey at best? I guess there's an off chance for Saudi Arabia civ, and if not than likely a Maghreb one (like Morocco). Turkey has been a fan request though for quite some time, and some people (Turks often) ended up being mad because the Ottomans made it in over Turkey. Now there is a way to get both. Turkey would be one of the least controversial picks also for a modern civ in that area of the world.

Besides Saudi Arabia and maybe Emirates, Egypt has been by far the most influential modern Arab state on all counts (politics, culture such as cinema, economy etc). By total GDP (PPP) it is barely lower than Saudi Arabia and over twice as much than next two contenders (Emirates and Algeria).

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Hmm, I wonder what they'll follow the Abassids up with in the modern era? I dont imagine they'd put the Ottomans in modern over exploration.

The Khedivate of Egypt, hopefully. The only other major power in the region in the 1800s were the Qajars of Iran, who aren't really a memorable dynasty, but did produce some great art and build some great buildings. (And I'm a big fan of Qajar art and fashion)

 

[Siptah]

Besides Saudi Arabia and maybe Emirates, Egypt has been by far the most influential modern Arab state on all counts (politics, culture such as cinema, economy etc). By total GDP (PPP) it is barely lower than Saudi Arabia and over twice as much than next two contenders (Emirates and Algeria).

Modern Egypt

Unique Ability: Bakshish
Ever mouse-click that you perform costs one in-game gold.
All buildings and wonders are unlocked without tech requirements. There is a 5% chance each turn that all production progress in a city is lost.

 

[Krajzen]

Modern Egypt

Unique Ability: Bakshish
Ever mouse-click that you perform costs one in-game gold.
All buildings and wonders are unlocked without tech requirements. There is a 5% chance each turn that all production progress in a city is lost.

This sounds strangely compelling tbh, though more for some fantasy or sci fi 4X than historical one, where you can have weird and asymmetric races; a culture which is very cunning but also inimical to predictability and stability; or a culture which can buy anything, with upsides and downsides of such approach.

 

[durfal]

I want a Franz Kafka leader, but only if, completely at random, every so often his model is replaced by a giant cockroach.

I had to read that book when I was learning German. My god gave that book me nightmares.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Antiquity	Exploration	Industrial
Achaemenids	Safavids	Qajar
Anglo-Saxons	Normans	Britain
Babylon	Abbasids	???
Balhae	Joseon	Korea
Bantu	Monomotopa	Zulu*
Belgae	Netherlands	USA***
Egypt	Fatimids	Egypt
Gauls	Franks	France
Geats	Norse	Sweden
Greece	Byzantium	Greece
Hittites	Ottomans	Turkey
Huns	Mongolia	Kalmyks
Jomon	Edo Japan	Meiji Japan
Maurya	Mughals	Maratha
Maya	Teotihuacan	???
Nazca	Inca	Mapuche
Olmecs	Aztecs	Mexico
Qin	Tang	Qing
Rome	Tuscany	Italy
Slavs	Keivan Rus'	Russia
Suebi	Holy Roman Empire	Germany
Vandals	Spain	Argentina**

*Should probably be Rozvi, but chose Zulu because staple
**Or preferably Chile
***Yes

 

[Siptah]

Antiquity	Exploration	Industrial
Achaemenids	Safavids	Qajar
Anglo-Saxons	Normans	Britain
Babylon	Abbasids	???
Balhae	Joseon	Korea
Bantu	Monomotopa	Zulu*
Belgae	Netherlands	USA***
Egypt	Fatimids	Egypt
Gauls	Franks	France
Geats	Norse	Sweden
Greece	Byzantium	Greece
Hittites	Ottomans	Turkey
Huns	Mongolia	Kalmyks
Jomon	Edo Japan	Meiji Japan
Maurya	Mughals	Maratha
Maya	Teotihuacan	???
Nazca	Inca	Mapuche
Olmecs	Aztecs	Mexico
Qin	Tang	Qing
Rome	Tuscany	Italy
Slavs	Keivan Rus'	Russia
Suebi	Holy Roman Empire	Germany
Vandals	Spain	Argentina**

*Should probably be Rozvi, but chose Zulu because staple
**Or preferably Chile
***Yes

Is that what you wish for or what you consider likely? If it is the latter, your missing some probable ones, such as the Goths, Majapahit, Normans, or any NA native civs.

I personally think/hope that upgrade paths aren‘t that linear and each civ always offers at least 2 so-called historical options to proceed, while at the same time each later era civ is unlocked by at least 2 choices.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Is that what you wish for or what you consider likely? If it is the latter, your missing some probable ones, such as the Goths, Majapahit, Normans, or any NA native civs.

It's supposed to just be a rough sketch for what if each "staple" civ had a 1-1-1 progression without overlaps. (I wrote this in a earlier version of the post but accidentally deleted it). I don't consider it most likely. I don't consider it a wishlist either (except maybe the Qajars).

I did miss the Majapahit by accident, I avoided the Goths so that each civ has its own pathway, the Normans are there as an Exploration Age civ, and I avoided Native American civs because I don't know hokey about pre-Columbian North America

 

[Rac]

Hmm, I wonder what they'll follow the Abassids up with in the modern era? I dont imagine they'd put the Ottomans in modern over exploration.

My majors bets for Modern Middle Eastern civs would go to Modern Egypt, Afsharid or Qajarite Persia and Turkey, but if you want stuff on the Arabian Peninsua and Fertile Crescent the obvious choice to me is Nejd (yes the precursor of Saudi Arabia) and Lebanon, you can go with the Emirates and Jordan too, and if they are not shy, pick Iraq for the Babylon historical path.

 

[queenpea]

I just tried to make a table showing a priority 1 historical progression path (i.e. whatever the devs code as the greatest "historical" progression value for the AI) and almost had a nervous breakdown trying to figure out - given what we know and what we surmise and a few wild logical leaps - how the Americas play out.

I can only imagine the years of discussions it took Firaxis to finalize their lists for each Age, and presume there were some very strong arguments on the road there. I quit here:

Aksum	Songhai	Buganda
Egypt	Abbasids	Ethiopia
Goths	Spain	Mexico
Maurya	Khmer	India
	Inca	Brazil
Rome	Normans	England
Huns	Mongolia	Russia
Greece	Venice	France
Han	Ming	Qing
Maya	Shawnee	America
Persia

As an American, I really hope, and can’t imagine, FXS opting for a Shawnee —> America natural transition. That is obviously problematic in a number of ways. There is also the issue of painting all native cultures as pre-modern. I trust them to figure it out, but this is a predictable consequence of the civ switching mechanic when applying it to American history.

 

[Krikkit1]

As an American, I really hope, and can’t imagine, FXS opting for a Shawnee —> America natural transition. That is obviously problematic in a number of ways. There is also the issue of painting all native cultures as pre-modern. I trust them to figure it out, but this is a predictable consequence of the civ switching mechanic when applying it to American history.

I could see it working if
1. There was also a Shawnee-> Modern Native civ unlock (being the default)
2. Some of the ideas of making sure the names/graphics from the previous civs carry over by default (and have the option of carrying over completely….. I should be able to go from Egypt to Mongol (Egypt) OR Egypt (Mongol))

That way a player could who picked a Shawnee Leader, and wanted to start as Babylon could end up as
Shawnee (America, Babylon)
or Shawnee (Navajo, Babylon)
or Navajo (Shawnee, Babylon)
or America (Shawnee, Babylon)
or Babylon (Navajo, Shawnee)
or Babylon (America, Shawnee)
or Poland (because the player customized their civ name, and wanted Poland can into space)

 

[Krajzen]

Antiquity	Exploration	Industrial
Achaemenids	Safavids	Qajar
Anglo-Saxons	Normans	Britain
Babylon	Abbasids	???
Balhae	Joseon	Korea
Bantu	Monomotopa	Zulu*
Belgae	Netherlands	USA***
Egypt	Fatimids	Egypt
Gauls	Franks	France
Geats	Norse	Sweden
Greece	Byzantium	Greece
Hittites	Ottomans	Turkey
Huns	Mongolia	Kalmyks
Jomon	Edo Japan	Meiji Japan
Maurya	Mughals	Maratha
Maya	Teotihuacan	???
Nazca	Inca	Mapuche
Olmecs	Aztecs	Mexico
Qin	Tang	Qing
Rome	Tuscany	Italy
Slavs	Keivan Rus'	Russia
Suebi	Holy Roman Empire	Germany
Vandals	Spain	Argentina**

*Should probably be Rozvi, but chose Zulu because staple
**Or preferably Chile
***Yes

When I look at this list I am kinda sad that we are going to see modern civs similar to real life civs and once again I have doubts about civ switching - the entire fun of this series lied in Aztecs, Byzantium, Maya and Babylon surviving till the modern era.

 

[Siptah]

When I look at this list I am kinda sad that we are going to see modern civs similar to real life civs and once again I have doubts about civ switching - the entire fun of this series lied in Aztecs, Byzantium, Maya and Babylon surviving till the modern era.

I think one of the reasons the last era starts „so early“ is that the civs can be designed based on ~150+ years and not just since WWII, which makes at least some of them unlike contemporary real life. E.g., Meiji Japan or maybe Imperial Germany/Prussia.

 

[pokiehl]

When I look at this list I am kinda sad that we are going to see modern civs similar to real life civs and once again I have doubts about civ switching - the entire fun of this series lied in Aztecs, Byzantium, Maya and Babylon surviving till the modern era.

I suppose it's a matter of perspective. The Aztecs and Byzantium will still be a core part of your empire. They will live on in the Unique Districts/Improvements you built, the civ-specific Traditions you unlocked, etc...

 

[durfal]

I suppose it's a matter of perspective. The Aztecs and Byzantium will still be a core part of your empire. They will live on in the Unique Districts/Improvements you built, the civ-specific Traditions you unlocked, etc...

That's what basicly happened in real live, for the most part.
But that is not the same as the what if scenarion of bringing the Maya etc. to form their own empire and bring it to the modern age.

 

[Zaarin]

But that is not the same as the what if scenarion of bringing the Maya etc. to form their own empire and bring it to the modern age.

I suppose they could make the Zapatistas a Modern Age civ, though I imagine that would be...controversial. (The Zapatistas are multiethnic, but Maya form a significant part.)

 

[Rac]

I suppose they could make the Zapatistas a Modern Age civ, though I imagine that would be...controversial. (The Zapatistas are multiethnic, but Maya form a significant part.)

An historical path for Mayas beyond Mexico could be Guatemala you know

Still, I don't believe that Firaxis would made civ switiching obligatory, that's such weird and polemic decision...

 

[Zaarin]

An historical path for Mayas beyond Mexico could be Guatemala you know

I suggested the Zapatistas because the Maya were a significant part of it and because I imagine Maya > Guatemala holds a similar postcolonial sentiment as Shawnee > United States. TBH I don't expect to see Guatemala or the Zapatistas.

 

[Krikkit1]

An historical path for Mayas beyond Mexico could be Guatemala you know

Still, I don't believe that Firaxis would made civ switiching obligatory, that's such weird and polemic decision...

It is Definitely Obligatory. It flows out of the whole “Ages” mechanic.

Best I can see is hopefully they have the ability to preserve the old civs name (and city names, flags)
say you get the option of
Maya->Aztec(Maya) or Maya (Aztec)
and then
Aztec(Maya)->Mexico (Aztec, Maya) or Aztec (Mexico, Maya)
or
Maya (Aztec)->Mexico (Aztec, Maya) or Maya (Mexico, Aztec)

With custom civ name’s also being an option.
So That way Maya can into space (or Rome, Babylon, Poland, Mongols, Smurfs, Gondor, etc.)