Speculating on (Historical) Civ Progression

[Thenewwwguy]

Tomatekh's Historical Religions.

Oh good one!

 

[Pedro P]

have we also considered the possibility that some civs won’t have historical paths all the way through? It might be more respectful, for example, for exploration age Shawnee to have no historic path, or use a thematic/geographic feature path like Egypt to Songhai (perhaps another, more recent indigenous culture which has resisted its colonizers), than lead into the US




Yamato is also the name of the major Japanese ethnicity, since this is the population they directly descend from. Pro is continuity, con is there might not be as much distinction compared to Jomon.


As much as Korea is a big market, idk if it’ll get one in all three. In civ 4 we got Goguryeo, then Civ 5 Joseon, and Civ 6 Silla. Since Goguryeo fully united the peninsula temporarily, and hasn’t been highlighted in a while, if we are getting one in all three, I would like to see Goguryeo again rather than Baekje. Could be interesting too—Military to Science/Cultural to Cultural/Industrial

I guess that would be a fun gameplay route. Korea tends to go tall, hermit kingdom and all that, so a concept of claiming your territory in age 1 then going tall on it in age 2 and 3, could indeed be neat.

 

[Shirotora Kenshin]

Ed kind of intimated there could be 3 Japanese civs as well, but that may have just been an example.

Hmm… this could eventually be the solution to my problems with the civ switching… if you can play the first era as Japan 1, the second era as Japan 2, and the third era as Japan 3. But i doubt that this is what he meant to say

 

[Xandinho]

Modern Korea will almost certainly be all science, all day because that's how they like to think of themselves.

I've always been critical of Korea in Civ for always being a scientific powerhouse whose sole job is to produce science. But I think that dividing Korea, its modern version being a scientific powerhouse is not absurd, since South Korea is a nation recognized for its scientific prominence. I still think they could gain a bit of culture because of Hallyu. Goryeo/Joseon and Silla, however, I hope they don't have interaction with science as their main focus.

 

[Zaarin]

I've always been critical of Korea in Civ for always being a scientific powerhouse whose sole job is to produce science. But I think that dividing Korea, its modern version being a scientific powerhouse is not absurd, since South Korea is a nation recognized for its scientific prominence. I still think they could gain a bit of culture because of Hallyu. Goryeo/Joseon and Silla, however, I hope they don't have interaction with science as their main focus.

Indeed, this might be how I finally get the culture/religion Korea I've always wanted.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think (or maybe just hope?) that Rome will lead to a Renaissance (excuse me, Exploration Age) Italian civ like Florence (which could itself lead to a Modern Age Argentina, maybe?)

Or maybe Florence just leads to Italy?

The "Norman banner" also became the banner of the Kings of England (for obvious reasons), before being mixed with the french fleur-de-lys when the English kings claimed France (I trust we all understand why they would not take the fleur de lys version for England?) so while it confirms that there is a post-conquest English Exploration civ (like we needed that confirmation), it says a lot less about their actual name.

I certainly hope that at least the assinine decision of England as the modern civ was speculation oO. Whether you call the exploration civ England (as you should) or Norman (if you must), there's no reason to call the *modern* one English when Great Britain/British is there.

I believe the banner only shows two lions, as opposed to three which would indicate that it's England instead. The name "Norman" was also used by Ed Beach, and we've seen the Tower of London wonder being built, so the assumption that the Normans are the Exploration Age civ are highly likely.

As much as Korea is a big market, idk if it’ll get one in all three. In civ 4 we got Goguryeo, then Civ 5 Joseon, and Civ 6 Silla. Since Goguryeo fully united the peninsula temporarily, and hasn’t been highlighted in a while, if we are getting one in all three, I would like to see Goguryeo again rather than Baekje. Could be interesting too—Military to Science/Cultural to Cultural/Industrial

Well the counterpoint to Civ 6 is that everything is designed primarily around Joseon era Korea, besides Seondeok. Once they released Sejong as another leader then you could just play essentially as a Joseon Korea with him.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Any ideas for Antiquity Age civs for North American indigenous peoples? Or do you think we are going to have to go Maya > Shawnee > ???

Not my area of expertise, but evidence for pre-Columbian cultures in that area seems kinda scanty to fill out a full civ. (I don't think the Puebloans are going to happen).

 

[TreVor_ish]

Any ideas for Antiquity Age civs for North American indigenous peoples? Or do you think we are going to have to go Maya > Shawnee > ???

Not my area of expertise, but evidence for pre-Columbian cultures in that area seems kinda scanty to fill out a full civ. (I don't think the Puebloans aren't going to happen).

Yes - that will be 5$

 

[Zaarin]

Any ideas for Antiquity Age civs for North American indigenous peoples? Or do you think we are going to have to go Maya > Shawnee > ???

Not my area of expertise, but evidence for pre-Columbian cultures in that area seems kinda scanty to fill out a full civ. (I don't think the Puebloans aren't going to happen).

Lack of writing outside of Mesoamerica means we don't have names for civs in Antiquity, just archaeological cultures.

 

[Krikkit1]

Any ideas for Antiquity Age civs for North American indigenous peoples? Or do you think we are going to have to go Maya > Shawnee > ???

Not my area of expertise, but evidence for pre-Columbian cultures in that area seems kinda scanty to fill out a full civ. (I don't think the Puebloans are going to happen).

Cahoika would be the big one

 

[Zaarin]

Cahoika would be the big one

Cahokia is firmly Exploration age. Hopewell culture would be the Antiquity Age civ, but, again, I don't expect to see archaeological cultures in Civ.

 

[Krikkit1]

Cahokia is firmly Exploration age. Hopewell culture would be the Antiquity Age civ, but, again, I don't expect to see archaeological cultures in Civ.

Only Assuming you go strictly by dates. But there are probably some Woodland Era archaeological cultures. (no need for a leader)

 

[SeelingCat]

I think the Ancestral Puebloans are the big one with Mesa Verde etc, or their neighbors the Hohokam.

Also could do a general Mississippian culture I suppose, although they're more on the edge with Exploration depending on where/when one draws the line (similar to Zaarin's point).

 

[Zaarin]

Only Assuming you go strictly by dates. But there are probably some Woodland Era archaeological cultures. (no need for a leader)

No need for a leader, but there is a need for a name. "Hopewell culture" is named after where the prototype artifacts were found, not the people who made them.

 

[Krikkit1]

No need for a leader, but there is a need for a name. "Hopewell culture" is named after where the prototype artifacts were found, not the people who made them.

In the absence of anyone claiming “they call themselves X”* location is fine

* You could have say “Hopewell Name of contact era inhabitants”. similar to ideas of “Edo Japan”… if that would be ok with those contact era inhabitants (and there wasn’t good evidence that the contact era inhabitants actually wiped out the previous culture.)

 

[Zaarin]

In the absence of anyone claiming “they call themselves X”* location is fine

* You could have say “Hopewell Name of contact era inhabitants”. similar to ideas of “Edo Japan”

That was fine in Humankind (insofar as anything was fine in Humankind), but I don't see it happening in Civ.

 

[Rac]

Not gonna lie, it's funny to think only 3 options for "historical paths" since I'm so accustumed to the Humankind 6 era system... Even there you had questions about the Medieval Era covering too much and so on, but having on 3 instances of era/age is something I believe is healthy, even if the path bemoce more limited and odd to say the least.

No need for a leader, but there is a need for a name. "Hopewell culture" is named after where the prototype artifacts were found, not the people who made them.

Needing a name isn't a problem per se, Civ already uses Byzantium and Gran Colombia that aren't historical endonyms or exonomyns for them you know, so going with the Hopewell, the Caral, Harappans, Oxus isn't that crazy to happen. But on the North Americans civs specifically, if you don't want to use the Hopewell, you can go with the Hisatsinom (the Hopi name for the Ancient Pueblans) or the Salish perhaps (it's dated that Salish speakers did reach Cascadia pretty early on)

 

[Wabnosa]

Anishnabe -> Shawnee -> Shawnee
Anishnabe -> 3 Fires Confederacy -> 3 Fires Confederacy

 

[Evie]

I believe the banner only shows two lions, as opposed to three which would indicate that it's England instead. The name "Norman" was also used by Ed Beach, and we've seen the Tower of London wonder being built, so the assumption that the Normans are the Exploration Age civ are highly likely.

Eeehhhhhhhhh. Yes, if we go by modern regional coat of arms. If we go by history...actually the number matter little, and there is little to no evidence for *any* Norman leader using two lions rather than three or any other numbers (or indeed, , whereas English kings used one, two or three lions with indifferent abandon for the first quarter millenium of their existence. It's only in the 1300s that Edward III stabilized the three lions in law as the coat of arms of the English monarchy. Then promptly added the fleur-de-lys to it.

Factor in that graphic limitations (how well you can see two versus three lions at game sizes) may also be a thing, and I would avoid large bets.Could be the normans, could be England. The same goes for the Tower of London, which has been one of the most notable landmarks of England from the Normans to today, so who know what it means.

(We will not discuss at length how idiotic not having ENGLAND in the AGE OF EXPLORATION would be.)

@Zaarin - the cynical part of me can't help but think the limit is going to be less "How foreign is their name?" and more "How foreign does their name sound?" Hopewell no, Mississipian yes!

And, in fairness to Firaxis, I have to admit it's a limit I've used myself in modding and suchlike. Angel Mound NO, Cahokia YES! It isn't great, but it...well, is as close to working as anyting we have gets.

 

[Zaarin]

Hisatsinom (the Hopi name for the Ancient Pueblans)

The Puebloan people consider the Ancestral Puebloans sacred and probably would not appreciate having them featured in a game. FXS ran into the same issue in Civ5 when they wanted to include the Pueblo as a civ.