*Spoiler1* Gotm17- Early Specific Map

[Greg Loader]

I've been away from GOTM for a few games due to reading the first 7 Volumes of Robert Jordans "The Wheel of Time". However, I'm now loaded with squid, and enjoying PTW on a unique game. The following are four of my red letter dates.

1475 BC - 5 Cities - Mt Etna - Yndy, Karasu

1150 BC - 6 Cities
Theon oikema - Aeson, Creepster

1000 BC - 6 Cities, 1 Settler, 1 Galley, Collosus
Mt Vesuvius - Phil Martin, Ainwood

540AD - 18 Cities, 4 Galleys, 20 Horsemen, 4 swordsmen, Republic
Finished War with Egypt for 8gpt, 42G, 1 City & World Map
Finished Hanging Gardens in Carthage
Entered GA

My plan at this point was to wait for Leonardo, upgrade to Knights, then finish off the Egyptians.

It is at 600AD that {i finally meet} new CIV's.

Anarchy - 5 turns.
Huts - Tech

Thanks for the GREAT game, Cracker.

 

[Darkness]

I moved my settler east to the coast purely to get coastal access, because my plan was to bee-line for map making and get the great lighthouse. I produced 2 warriors to scout and 1 early worker to make sure I had great early infrastructure. After that it was a granary and 2 settlers in Carthage before starting the Pyramids (as a prebuild for great Lighthouse). 1 settler founded Utica near wheat on floodplains (this became my settler factory), the other settler founded acity on the souther tip of the island. I continued to expand as quickly as I could andgot map making at about 1400 BC, switched Carthage to the Lighthouse, which I build in 1025 BC...
At 1000 BC I had 8 cities, all on the starting island. Eventually I build a ninth on the island and later used galleys ferrying all around to settle the other islands.
I met Egypt around 700 BC and spent the next 500 years getting ready for war (researching iron working, building barracks, galleys and warriors and upgrading warriors to swordsmen). Declared war at 50 BC and quickly took out 3 cities. Gave Cleo peace for all she had (world map, 2 techs and 30 gold) and attacked again 2 turns later, and finished her off around 250 AD, the same time I switched to republic (in 4 turns). No GLs even though I prolonged my war to get as much battled with my only elite swordsman as I could...
Now early middle ages and I've settled all the islands in my little part of the world. Disbanded all my swordsman ( I have no units except galleys and workers) to speed up production in the formerly Egyptian lands, where in Memphis I'm building the FP now.
After the Lighthouse I build the Great Library in Carthage (and I took the Oracle from Egypt), which hasn't helped me at all (no techs) even though after suiciding at least a dozen galleys I found some other AIs but that's for another spoiler...
Haven't had my GA yet, so I still have some change of catching up to you guys (and girls)...

Thanks to the GOTM staff, this is a great game. I've never played on an archipelago map before, but it's real fun!

Over the weekend I'll type out my QSC notes, so more precise info may follow...

 

[dales]

Originally posted by PattonTwo
170ad. China completes the Great Pyramid. Persia completes the Great Library. Aztecs complete the Great Wall.

I am really curious as to how things happened in my game. The Great Wall was built rediculously early in my game- I think it was the first wonder done, by Egypt, around 500BC.

They must have popped Mathematics and/or Construction from a goody hut? How come I don't get goody huts like that?!

 

[Yndy]

Adding a couple of extra pieces.
Totally destroyed the Egyptians: 30BC (After I got Hannibal –Hurray!!!)
FP built in Memphis.
After that I rushed as much as I could to catch Moonsinger’s score at 400AD. I only managed to get 539 points. I think I understand more about early milking, please correct me if I’m wrong:
*** You build one city after the other until the land runs out. No improvement whatsoever in the cities (except for the odd wonder and early granary). After grabbing the starting island and plopping four cities on the neighboring ones I built some 5 harbors, 3 libraries and 2 courthouses and produced settlers only when the town could not grow. After I took Egypt I expanded to get the same territory as Moonsinger only in 400AD.

*** You keep that lux slider at 20% all the time (or is it 30%?). After I took Egypt I had some time to relax and I raised the slider to 20% to get happiness even if I did not need that.

My leader came at about the 12th attack (± 2) with an elite unit just as I gave up hope and struggled to take Thebes and end the Egyptian misery.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Originally posted by mad-bax


But can't you do this anyway with a city on the jungle 1 tile south of the start location? Except that this way you save 12 worker turns in clearing the jungle and found your first city 1 turn earlier.
From this location I was making 5 surplus food per turn, settler every 4 turns and wasting 2 shields in the process because I'm not good enough. City was oscillating between 3 and 5 pop. I sacrificed 1 settler cycle to help another city grow in which I wanted the lighthouse (by sharing the irrigated wheat).

Sincerely, please educate me.

The problem with where Dave built his city was that it could only reach 1 bonus grassland, so it would have trouble coming up with enough shields to build a settler every 4 turns. In order to use a forest (2 shields) he would need to work a floodplain tile (0 shields/net effect of both tiles=1 shield/tile) to stay at +5 food at all times. In order to come up with 30 shields/4 turns, you would need to produce more than 1 shield/tile average. 5-6 shields/turn just isn't going to make it. So he probably had to spend (just an example, I don't know exactly what he did), 2 turns at size 4, then 3 turns at size 5.

Lack of shield production is one reason I don't really like wheat on floodplains (compared to other bonus resources on other terrains), because on most maps there is nothing but plains and desert near the floodplains.

Building on the jungle allowed you to access more bonus grassland, so production wasn't a problem and you could stay at +5 food at all times because you were producing 7-9 shields/turn.

There was a trade-off in either situation. Dave grew quicker for the first 10 turns because the jungle start can't reach the wheat until the borders expand. So he had a big jumstart in the first 10 turns, but then settlers would take 1 turn longer to build. But, what helps out his position is that those other bonus grassland squares could be used by another city to build stuff while the capital was tied up in settler/worker production.

 

[haegint]

It's my first GOTM.

I scouted with the worker and because of the many bonuses west I founded Carthage one tile to the left on the forest tile. Initially I made a trade-off to rather gain gold for research (to get map making) than settlers and military for expansion. I researched pottery first, then writing, then bronze working, then map making. I felt I researched really quickly, as was later revealed when I met Egypt that was behind some 2 techs or so.

I won the Lighthouse, but narrowly lost Colossus by 4 turns to the English. I never really wanted the GL as by knowing only one other civ, it's worthless (except for culture), is it not? I would have loved to get the Colossus. In fact, the Lighthouse is nice for speed, but island hopping was so easy distance-wise that one could do without, as Moonsinger demonstrated.

Pyramids I also deemed pretty worthless except for culture because of the small home continent and the good food situation in Carthage. The Oracle expires early. I have not researched Monarchy as some other civ got the Oracle (Babylon?). Persia got the GL. America got the Great Wall. If I had to do it again, I probably I would get Colossus. It does not expire in a long time and it nicely complements the commercial trait.

I completely missed out on paying attention to the names of the Volcanos. I just forgot to right-click and see what they were. Instead my warriors trampled onto them and I actually had a good laugh when I saw workers pop out of the first one!! I expected something completely different ouf of them (nuke-like pollution after eventual eruption).

The fog also proved quite challenging in the sense of getting a grip on what it actually is in the first place. At first sighting I thought it was moving in on the homeland like one of the seven plagues or so crippling my fiefdom, but thankfully it did not. Then I thought it might just move away by itself, but no: One had to fight it. I lost one galley in it, others got promoted, one even has become an Elite Fog Fighter! This also was a funny side in the game eventually, but initially I was quite puzzled.

I met one squid along the western coast, but could flee him with my speedy galley (it was damaged at that time, so I did not want to fight).

When I got the Lighthouse, I first let the galleyes (have 3) explore empty without settler and hoplite abord. That was a bit of a waste, I now think. I guess I just timed it not sufficiently well to have some units ready when the Lighthouse was.

I have been not at war with with Egypt yet. I feel it is not really necessary. Because of the +1 speed of the galleys I managed to get a settler and hoplite out to the farest east to claim the third iron source. Another one is on the island west of Thebes which I also claimed, the third is on my homeland in the north-eastern mountain. Hopefully this puts me in a strong position strategically. Maybe I can trade iron with others later.

Maybe Egypt will be angry enough sometimes not to have iron and start a war. Then I will gladly destroy them. Currently I get a wine from them. I still need to hook up my incense, I have the road, but need a harbor on the island.

My score is about half of Moonsinger's 500 or so, which depresses me. I have not failed, but my game is very so-so I guess.

I found two huts to pop only. Both were on the island west of Thebes. One yielded a skilled warrior, the other one got me Mysticism which was useful. One player getting Republic and Monarchy out of huts I find really depressing.

What I wonder is: Where do I go from here? The next land must be quite some way off. I tried moving galleys out 2 tiles, but not suiciding them. Even with Magellan one will have 5 movement only. I guess suicidal missions will be inevitable in the future. Maybe I should forget about the rest of the world, destroy Egypt, live on my own and wait for others to visit me... I'm always struggling with these big issue decisions.

The QSC I finished with a score of 145 FWIW, placing first in population and production (mfg goods). It took me a long time playing the QSC, I'd say some 20 hours net playing time, four sessions anyway. I micromanaged cities a lot. I got into civic unrest once in one of them for one turn. A couple of times I made the completely stupid error of not reducing science on the last turn towards a new tech. I found keeping a log for individual units movement quite distracting. Even reading it myself now I cannot make much sense of it. I should try something different next time, but don't know yet what.

I feel like I had a decent start but I had a lot of trouble prioritizing things or queueing things to come together (like having empty galleys for exploration). I wonder how the more experienced players struggle with decision making.

I like the map and setting of the game a lot. I think cracker and team have done a great job.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Originally posted by Moonsinger


According to my note:

3450 BC: Discovered Pottery
3450 BC: Finished the Granary
2800 BC: Carthage finished 1st Settler
2750 BC: Founded Utica
2590 BC: Carthage finished 2nd settler
2470 BC: Founded Leptis Magna
2430 BC: Utica finished 1st Worker
2150 BC: Carthage finished the barracks

PS: Sorry, I don't have time to type up my QSC yet; otherwise, I would post the rest of them in more detail.

I sure hope there is a typo there. I can't figure out how you could finish the granary that early (turn 11) from the starting position, even if you did whip 1 population point. Well, maybe it is possible if you mined a tile, then cut the forest, then whipped a citizen (I haven't fully calculated that possiblity, but that doesn't seem like it's possible, either). I'm guessing you probably meant 3050 BC.

 

[ltcoljt]

Its only my first game and I am learning an important lesson. I ran max tech without paying attention to keeping the people happy early and I think it stunted my score.

Undergoing emergency udder manipulation education.

 

[Shillen]

My scores aren't that impressive.

1000 BC - 153
390 AD - 275
760 AD - 355

It hurt pretty badly not to attack Egypt early. I don't think leaving lux slider at 20% for entire first portion of game would help your score that much. Even though I didn't attack Egypt like 250 of those 355 points are from territory. The population/happiness score doesn't make a big difference until later in the game from what I've seen. I'm no professional milker though, I've never milked before.

 

[Megalou]

I shall keep this post short since I prefer just focusing on things out of the ordinary. (I don't participate in QSC though I might next time because it seems like an outstanding way to learn.)

Though hard to evaluate, my start to this game was probably mediocre. I decided on conquest, mainly because few others seem to have chosen it. I made one or two mistakes. The first: I just had to send an elite Spartan hoplite into Egypt to trigger GA while in despotism.

Secondly, I probably slowed down research too much. A few techs into the medieval age I have researched one and a half tech at zero percent - that's sixty turns. (About the "half" tech: I changed science rate halfway in. This is an unwise thing to if you have a low maximum research rate - then you might only be able to increase it from say 20 to 15 turns per tech - but it's not as bad if you can change from 20 to 2 turns per tech).

The money gained was put to good use, after the prebuilt Sistine Chapel. You might say I became religious in my bloodthirst strategy. And there's a lot of money left to use for less than friendly visits to unknown civilizations. Still, it makes sense that the later you start saving money for upgrading, the more cash you will earn each turn. That's why I think my early one-citizen-research was a mistake.

Some stats:
goody huts: barbarians, barbarians, useless map
discovery of map making: 1400BC (Did not move settler)

By the way, if u have the slightest interest in art and haven't visited the real Sistine Chapel, you should!

 

[Renata]

Originally posted by Megalou
I decided on conquest, mainly because few others seem to have chosen it.

Hello, Megalou, comrade in slaughter!

My decision to go for conquest was made for largely the same reason -- why go for the easy win? (at myself) Anyway, I have no idea how to accomplish that on this type of map beyond the obvious (build a lot of units, ship em out, kick some AI rear), but I'm learning a lot as I go. Fun, fun! Next spoiler thread should have some details.

Renata

 

[Moonsinger]

To Bamspeedy & Yndy:

All will become clear soon after I publish my QSC timeline (I will type it up nicely this coming weekend). On thing I know for sure, I don't believe in whipping my own citizens; so there was no whipping of any kind there.

---

To haegint:

Don't worry about the early score. It's a lot like the Law of Energy. Energy can not be created or destroyed, but it's transfered between the two alternate stages: Potential Energy and Kinematic Energy. If Kinematic is represented by the score, then I say that you have more Potential Energy storing up some where. For example, the Great Lighthouse that you built (I have no Great Lighthouse), that's Potential Energy. Because you now have the potential to cross the ocean and to meet other civs from the far away land (while I couldn't do that). Once you convert your Potential to Kinematic, your score would take off at a faster rate than mine. Therefore, eventually it will all balance out.

Well done on that Great Lighthouse! In my game, the AI beat me to it; it's a little set back for me, but no complain here. Since there are plenty of other fishes in the sea, no Lighthouse - no problem! Instead of exploring the other islands, I had more time to deal with Egypt.

Best Regards,
MOOnsinger

PS: I just happen to notice that there is a MOO in my name.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by ltcoljt
I got to mapmaking at the same point Moonsinger did, but I got bronze working and iron working before I headed for mapmaking. I am wondering if she did something similar or was simply sandbagging on the research?

I focused my research on Pottery, Writting, then Map Making. I noticed that at 100% science, it would take me 39 turns to discover Writing; therefore, I went with the 10% research on that. As for Pottery and Map Making, I set my science slider to the max (I had to adjust it to luxury a few time because some of my cows were unhappy).

I got bronze working and iron working from Egypt.

A lot of people got to mapmaking really fast but I was afraid of the fog. I wanted iron keels on them boats.

At first, I was afraid of the FOG too, but then I righ-clicked on it, I noticed that it was only 1 HP.

 

[ControlFreak]

Boy, I should have done a lot better than I have so far. I've a lot to learn about city placement and waging war. My deficiencies are magnafied by having to put my troops on a boat to attack. That's a lot harder to plan than just crossing the road in the back yard and thumping on the door.

heres a snipet of my QSC. The times are way behind most other posters.

3400BC Learn Pottery order writing due in 39
2750BC Carthage build granary
2550BC Carthage built settler
2470BC Utica founded order pyramid prebuild for Great Lighthouse
2270BC Carthage built settler
2230BC Learn writing order Map Making
2110BC Leptis Magna founded order warrior
1575BC Learn Map Making order Cerimonial Burial
1475BC Learn Cerimonial Burial order Wheel
1350BC Learn Wheel order Philosophy
1325BC Pompeii founded
1200BC Learn Philosophy order Code of Laws
1100BC Galley E contact Egypt warrior
Buy bronze,warrior code,territory map from Egypt for writing,WM,51g,4gpt
Buy iron working from Egypt for philosophy,37g
1025BC Plebis Magna founded order warrior
1000BC Goody Hut minoan teaches us Mystism

Since QSC ended, I stopped recording my timeline. If I had a better system, I think I would be better off continuing that.

I've been at war with Egypt. They sneak-attacked my city between the wheat and iron on the island to their west. I successfully defended, upgraded a bunch of warriors to swords and sent troops towards them. I auto-razed a city they just built at the southern tip of the wheat/iron/wine strip. I lost had the last spear down to 2HP in their city on the tiny island south of Thebes but lost the rest of my attack force to him. I think I lost 4 swords. Without any punch left I sued for peace and Cleo gave me her new city on the northern tip of the wheat/Iron/wine island. I've been amassing a second invasion force and will do a better job as far as concentrating an attack and bringing enough troops to do the job.

I built the Great Lighthouse in my second city (it's always been my favorite wonder anyway for the added movement/range on galleys). Reading this thread makes me think I should have concentrated less on military and more on wonder building. Some posters have build 3 ancient wonders!?!?! I guess I forgot that was possible on Regent.

Cleo's culture is kicking my butt and I'm thinking it will be necessary to take her out in one war, quickly or I'll be taking the same cities three and four times after they flip back.

My beeline to Republic has help a little in terms of GPT. I'm also ready to trigger the GA in my next war with ~14 cities and workers to develop them. I'm hoping/praying for a FP-building leader in the coming genocide. My anarchy was only 4 turns thank goodness and was done during my war. Good thing Cleo doesn't know how to fight on the ocean either. At one point, she sent three galleys each with one warrior at three different cities. One of their warriors actually kill one of my defending warriors and survived the sword attack on the next turn before dying to the second sword. What is she feeding these warriors?

After reading crackers remark and looking at Yndy's map, I'm going to pull all my defenders from their homes and send them at Egypt all at once. Hope that helps.

 

[haegint]

Moonsinger, thanks for the encouragement. I see what you mean with regard to kinetic energy and such. Yes indeed I think I made a few good early moves, but fumbled thereafter to some degree, not being consequential enough.

I'm really curious to read later how you missed out on the Lighthouse, simply because I think it did not require me to pull off an impossible stunt to get it. But OTOH imagine the Lighthouse in your hands, we could all submit our games and look forward to GOTM 18 already

Ok, now that you encouraged me, I will try to continue the game with a positive attitude.

A few random thoughts: Probably the more important wonder than Lighthouse is Magellan because it will not expire anymore. Late, late in the game I would think having cash to rush airports would be good too.

So this is why at this time I'm inclined to go rather peacefully, generating lots of gold and pushing research and building a rather defensively oriented military, go for Magellan and see what happens....

The lack of luxuries on the world map as of this first spoiler thread I find a challenge to deal with.

Unhappiness in general I find most problematic to manage and get rid of.

I need to build the FP still.

Egypt sure has good culture so culture-flipping cities may occur.

There are so many wonders I should get in Medieval age...

Happy gaming everybody!

 

[Ricardo]

My first GOTM and I am really having fun. I love the fog and volcano units.

I usually am pretty good at regent level play but I think I got off to too slow of a start with this game. I never seem to play well when I start on a small island. I much prefer a larger continent with one or two other civs on it to trade/make war with.

It is interesting seeing everyones stratagies while playing the same game. It seems like almost everyone has gone to war with the egyptians. I thought about that but then I decided it might be better to just trade resources/techs with them and I dont really like to go to war with a civilization until I have discovered a few others, since my games tend to rely a lot on trading income. Unfortunetaly I think my usual strategy was a mistake this time since there arent any other civs close by and egypt is the only direction to expand into. Now I find myself having only 10 cities around 0 AD where I would usually have about 15.

I managed to build the great lighthouse but I swear every time I got within 5 turns of building a wonder some other civ beat me to it.

I cant wait to see the squid. (havent met it yet)

 

[da_greatest]

I did an OCC. I founded Carthage on the coast to the east. I managed to get every ancient wonder except Pyramids and the Great Wall. So far it looks like I'm the only one doing an OCC, so I'm probably also the only person that faced a barb uprising. Egypt was very slow in expanding. They didn't settle my continent until around 1000 AD.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Bamspeedy
I sure hope there is a typo there. I can't figure out how you could finish the granary that early (turn 11) from the starting position, even if you did whip 1 population point. Well, maybe it is possible if you mined a tile, then cut the forest, then whipped a citizen (I haven't fully calculated that possiblity, but that doesn't seem like it's possible, either). I'm guessing you probably meant 3050 BC.

Yes, it's a typo (I just check my note). You guessed correctly; I finished the Granary in 3050BC.

 

[Moonsinger]

I finally finished typing up my QSC.[dance]

 

[gskyes]

Here are some highlights from my QSC timeline.

4000BC - Carthage founded on starting hill.
3450BC - Pottery Researched. Carthage has built 3 warriors, starts granary.
2950BC - Carthage builds granary, starts first settler.
2550BC - Utica founded near floodplain.
2770BC - Writing Researched.
2150BC - Leptis Magna founded south of Carthage.
1990BC - Leptis Magna starts pyramids (prebuild for Great Lighthouse)
1675BC - Theveste and Hippo founded.
1500BC - Research Mapmaking. Change production to Great Lighthouse in Leptis Magna.
1425BC - Plebis Magna founded.
1400BC - Bronze Working Researched.
1375BC - First galley built.
1300BC - Ceremonial Burial Researched.
1200BC - Sabratha founded on first E island.
1125BC - Philosophy Researched.

Here is my map at 1000BC.

Shortly after I met the Egyptians, who researched Map Making soon after I did. I was able to colonize the 3 closest islands and land one Settler on the larger island W of the Egyptian starting island. I researched Republic next and only had a 2 turn anarchy period.
In 170BC I completed the Great Lighthouse.
(Only one suicide galley was sent out, and it sank immediately)
In 190AD I entered the Middle Ages.
I built an attack force of Numidian Mercs and Swordsman and invaded Egypt, which started my Golden Age. I underestimated the Egyptian resistance, and while I was able to take control of the island west of Egypt, my forces were handed a devastating defeat on the main Egyptian Island. War Weariness set in and I sued for peace and withdrew my troops. By this time it is 580AD.
My research through the Middle Ages went as follows...
Monotheism -> Theology -> Education -> Astronomy is being researched now, which will lead to Navigation.

Here is my map at 580AD.

At this point in the game, we are uncertain how the rest of the world is doing. I hope the other civs out there in the ocean haven't all made contact with each other and are flying ahead in tech. I am sure that cracker has added some more surprises for us in this one, too.