BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Screenshot:
Spoiler :
Spoutnik says Bip-bip-bip [IMM fastest Space Colony]
- Thread starter Manco Capac
- Start date
Manco Capac
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Whatever, I check. It sounds a badass map anyways.
Haha stone again. It is pursueing me.
3 pigs, I haven't seen that often. It's like those rare quadruple corn start.
Haha stone again. It is pursueing me.
3 pigs, I haven't seen that often. It's like those rare quadruple corn start.
Personally I would love to see how you (and Kossin 
) play this. Kind of nice to see non ordinary start.
Btw, Tachy, I do employ your trick with AI ignoring unit you DoW with. It works on 50% on cases for me (unless I do it wrong somehow), good job!
) play this. Kind of nice to see non ordinary start.Btw, Tachy, I do employ your trick with AI ignoring unit you DoW with. It works on 50% on cases for me (unless I do it wrong somehow), good job!
Manco Capac
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Well, if the map generator stops to troll me...maybe I can find a nice bad map.
Other were quite rivery...
Sheep's clothing appears to a non-bug trick. I was entrapped during my medieval warfare after useless suicide.
Also, I should disable cheat mode. Stupid cheat mode revealed to me the players throughout the world while I wanted to put virtual BFCrosses...but I found a trick to enable those BFcrosses while I trigger on the UI and not the map...and plots.
EDIT: Found it. Almost a gem.
Other were quite rivery...
Sheep's clothing appears to a non-bug trick. I was entrapped during my medieval warfare after useless suicide.
Also, I should disable cheat mode. Stupid cheat mode revealed to me the players throughout the world while I wanted to put virtual BFCrosses...but I found a trick to enable those BFcrosses while I trigger on the UI and not the map...and plots.
EDIT: Found it. Almost a gem.
Manco Capac
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Ok, I attached another save with a non-commerce start. And at the skirts of what is visible, I see strips of deserts. Seems quite badlands.
Personally I would love to see how you (and Kossin
Not going to happen on my end, my civ time (what little I'll have) will be devoted to SGOTM for the next few months.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
For those who can't see them, the badlands on turn 0:
A great start where it seems that every tech is needed, on top of offering poor benefits! Congratulations Now 1850 AD is a threatening date again.
Would you consider settling one of those plains hills?
SIP has +7 food with the 2 lakes and lighthouse. Southern plains hills retains the lakes. SIP has strong production and likely hidden resources.
Spoiler :
A great start where it seems that every tech is needed, on top of offering poor benefits! Congratulations
Now 1850 AD is a threatening date again.Would you consider settling one of those plains hills?
SIP has +7 food with the 2 lakes and lighthouse. Southern plains hills retains the lakes. SIP has strong production and likely hidden resources.
Zx Zero Zx
Deity
Tachy want my help? I roll the worst starts in the world every time. Remember the map I posted for you that only one person could beat. That is a typical start. 
LoL. Really, what's the harm in rolling a start that at least looks somewhat good? I for one have never, never, Never!, haha!, been a fan of playing the first random start I get. Reminds me too much of the random luck involved in MP.
Just saying, no point even playing a game where I have nothing more than a plains cow......and half the AIs have 3F sources and some sort of gold/gems in their capital.
So imo, some sort of equal, or fair start should be perfectly fine.
Just saying, no point even playing a game where I have nothing more than a plains cow......and half the AIs have 3F sources and some sort of gold/gems in their capital.
So imo, some sort of equal, or fair start should be perfectly fine.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
^
Don't you like the Agriculture -> Fishing -> Everything start?
Alternatives include: wandering 4-5 turns with the settler (to cheese the map), the dreaded warrior rush (great play in isolation), the Judaism beeline (to rule the world).
I agree forced difficulty is exactly that: forced.
However, a poor map doesn't mean one can't do anything. Mostly, it means options are limited. Good moves don't change. They're simply more readily available on some maps than on others (make it happen!) and the benefits offered will vary with the land as well. Also, "poor map" is different from "poor location"; getting control of the richest areas is always a stake in the game (aka harvesting the map).
e.g. lack of commerce makes the Great Lighthouse even more important to the early expansion. Lack of happy resources makes Monarchy even more important to early growth, etc.
Whatever the map and its quality, one needs to sort the good moves: which are the more desirable, more profitable, the more likely? A rich map may offer more options - and as such may be more exciting - but the decision processes remain the same.
On turn 0, I believe any tech plan should end up with Priesthood researched in the ancient era.
e.g. Agriculture -> Fishing -> The Wheel -> Pottery -> Animal H -> Writing -> Sailing -> Mysticism -> Masonry -> Polytheism -> Priesthood ... or something shorter. That plan aborts when the Oracle is built in 2400 bc.
BW/Pottery typically go hand in hand. +Peter is EXP. If BW is skipped, then maybe Pottery/Wheel can be skipped as well. That leaves one without access to strategic resources (in BFC?). Value of AH is also debatable since it can't increase beakers. Start craves for beakers.
Many techs value are dependent upon locations for city 2 anyways. So that should help knowing what to get in priority. AIs locations, too, if any.
Is it a third or so of Fractal maps that are isolated? I seem to remember there are an awful lot.
Don't you like the Agriculture -> Fishing -> Everything start?
Alternatives include: wandering 4-5 turns with the settler (to cheese the map), the dreaded warrior rush (great play in isolation), the Judaism beeline (to rule the world).
I agree forced difficulty is exactly that: forced.
However, a poor map doesn't mean one can't do anything. Mostly, it means options are limited. Good moves don't change. They're simply more readily available on some maps than on others (make it happen!) and the benefits offered will vary with the land as well. Also, "poor map" is different from "poor location"; getting control of the richest areas is always a stake in the game (aka harvesting the map).
e.g. lack of commerce makes the Great Lighthouse even more important to the early expansion. Lack of happy resources makes Monarchy even more important to early growth, etc.
Whatever the map and its quality, one needs to sort the good moves: which are the more desirable, more profitable, the more likely? A rich map may offer more options - and as such may be more exciting - but the decision processes remain the same.
On turn 0, I believe any tech plan should end up with Priesthood researched in the ancient era.
e.g. Agriculture -> Fishing -> The Wheel -> Pottery -> Animal H -> Writing -> Sailing -> Mysticism -> Masonry -> Polytheism -> Priesthood ... or something shorter. That plan aborts when the Oracle is built in 2400 bc.
BW/Pottery typically go hand in hand. +Peter is EXP. If BW is skipped, then maybe Pottery/Wheel can be skipped as well. That leaves one without access to strategic resources (in BFC?). Value of AH is also debatable since it can't increase beakers. Start craves for beakers.
Many techs value are dependent upon locations for city 2 anyways. So that should help knowing what to get in priority. AIs locations, too, if any.
Is it a third or so of Fractal maps that are isolated? I seem to remember there are an awful lot.
Manco Capac
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I dunno, but I chose this mapscript because it's the best for unexpected. If I play some pangaea map, the strategy would end similar many times.
Manco Capac
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Since I got a little time, I can start just a little.
I'm not gonna remake those screenshots. Stupid small screen I have...
Since I this is not a bad site. Why not just SIP...
T0
I'm not gonna remake those screenshots. Stupid small screen I have...
Spoiler :
Since I this is not a bad site. Why not just SIP...
Spoiler :
T1
Spoiler :
T3
Spoiler :
T5
Spoiler :
T6
Spoiler :
T7
Spoiler :
T10
Spoiler :
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Oh, turn 10... Agriculture first.
Pigs/ Clams being split between 2 cities or attributed to 1 is a difficult matter. Split has better long-term benefits. Single city costs less in maintenance and hammers but has poor tiles otherwise. Marble and fur are weak as worked tiles. 2H city tile + pigs is very nice, otoh, to contribute to expansion. Clams only is a potential Maoi site.
It isn't the best direction to settle city 2 anyway. Maybe best fitted as 3rd (but then pigs first needs border pop to reach the marble... eek!).
Marble is an important resource for access to wonders. Temple of Artemis shouldn't be dismissed too easily. It is in fact quite desirable (so are Oracle and GLH). Buddhism founded on T7 is so-so sign.
Fur/Silver tiles are in sight but are all weak. Also, tech is known to work them. Cities can pay for themselves working them but could barely contribute to expansion.
If semi-iso, Feudalism might have very high value. What the early vassal can do... nothing like it. Oracling Feudalism, backfilling HBR/Construction might be stretching things, though.
Number of AIs on the landmass is a pretty important question. So is: what to do with Cyrus? Answers shall give hindsight on the value of military techs.
Early tech path is very, very tricky, here. What to favour? I think Fishing is sufficiently all-around to be selected next. Production techs all look risky to me (economic crash is a very real possibility) but possible rewards are greater. Are there any techs to skip?
Moscow at size 3, working corn and 2 mined hills, plains and grassland, yields 8 hammers, hence 10 to build a worker, +3 from food.
Pigs/ Clams being split between 2 cities or attributed to 1 is a difficult matter. Split has better long-term benefits. Single city costs less in maintenance and hammers but has poor tiles otherwise. Marble and fur are weak as worked tiles. 2H city tile + pigs is very nice, otoh, to contribute to expansion. Clams only is a potential Maoi site.
It isn't the best direction to settle city 2 anyway. Maybe best fitted as 3rd (but then pigs first needs border pop to reach the marble... eek!).
Marble is an important resource for access to wonders. Temple of Artemis shouldn't be dismissed too easily. It is in fact quite desirable (so are Oracle and GLH). Buddhism founded on T7 is so-so sign.
Fur/Silver tiles are in sight but are all weak. Also, tech is known to work them. Cities can pay for themselves working them but could barely contribute to expansion.
If semi-iso, Feudalism might have very high value. What the early vassal can do... nothing like it. Oracling Feudalism, backfilling HBR/Construction might be stretching things, though.
Number of AIs on the landmass is a pretty important question. So is: what to do with Cyrus? Answers shall give hindsight on the value of military techs.
Early tech path is very, very tricky, here. What to favour? I think Fishing is sufficiently all-around to be selected next. Production techs all look risky to me (economic crash is a very real possibility) but possible rewards are greater. Are there any techs to skip?
Moscow at size 3, working corn and 2 mined hills, plains and grassland, yields 8 hammers, hence 10 to build a worker, +3 from food.
Manco Capac
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I looked with a blank face what's ahead of me with this game and it looked to nothing is obvious. Compared to the last game being forgiving and generous, this one needs a strong planning to get things right.
What stopped me the last turnset was the difficulty in choosing the next tech. Next tech should be one favoring present city or next ones. Problem, AH is a costly one one can pass unless plentiful of pasture bonuses.
I think at this point to ponder further I need more exploration east. Not only Cyrus, being IMP, is known to expand like weed, but also I don't even know the potential of west. I need to fill there before even thinking east. East is easily fogbusted and definitely good for backfilling. Also, what favors west, if a resource happened to lie there is the real possibility of a cheap +2
from trade routes within culture control.
Thus for west settlement if possible:
1) Beat Cyrus to nice potential sites
2) Possible cheap trade routes without worker involvement.
3) Minus: Dangers from barbs. The way the capital is located, it is easy to defend, but once I get to settle west, defense is harder.
4) Since I am going to improve that GH, it's near west.
I thought about it and I agree on this. Cheap, helping on commerce, needed for several seafoods and definitely helping with 20% modifier with Pottery beeline. Pottery being twice cheaper, that is the key of our good expansion. 30
granary is nothing to sneeze at.
Trying to put in investment/dividend way to wording: Since 22
= 30 , then for an investment of 30 hammers into a granary, I'll start to get benefits just with growing one size. After it's pure benefit, thus it's a tremendous investment. If I got the concept right. It's a new paradigm to me...
Before going further, while committing fishing, I'll be able to explore a tad more and get more assesses on my future decisions. Who knows what lie westward.
Warrior rush Cyrus is dismissed. I think warrior rushing on IMM is ridiculous. It is even more costlier than my 8.8% axe gamble and may fail more often. It is still imprinted in brain...that 4-5 warriors loss on a single monarch AI archer.
A screenshot because pictures are always fun to look at.
A interest micro question given the bad layout of my BFC, should I burn one turn on going on Grass hill before mining plain hill next to wet corn. Once I reach that point. I should test.
Ok, bots, we got a really nice spot. A flat out obvious spot and definitely the future bureaucratic capital.
Since it is getting late, I leave to that screenshot.
Oh, do not bother about "Better short term" flag. It is in fact the better site having the most grassland tiles. A perfect relocalization of the capital. Hell, it is a better site than my capital!
Because of those phants, I feel cheesy elepult again, ha!
What stopped me the last turnset was the difficulty in choosing the next tech. Next tech should be one favoring present city or next ones. Problem, AH is a costly one one can pass unless plentiful of pasture bonuses.
I think at this point to ponder further I need more exploration east. Not only Cyrus, being IMP, is known to expand like weed, but also I don't even know the potential of west. I need to fill there before even thinking east. East is easily fogbusted and definitely good for backfilling. Also, what favors west, if a resource happened to lie there is the real possibility of a cheap +2
from trade routes within culture control. Thus for west settlement if possible:
1) Beat Cyrus to nice potential sites
2) Possible cheap trade routes without worker involvement.
3) Minus: Dangers from barbs. The way the capital is located, it is easy to defend, but once I get to settle west, defense is harder.
4) Since I am going to improve that GH, it's near west.
I thought about it and I agree on this. Cheap, helping on commerce, needed for several seafoods and definitely helping with 20% modifier with Pottery beeline. Pottery being twice cheaper, that is the key of our good expansion. 30
granary is nothing to sneeze at. Trying to put in investment/dividend way to wording: Since 22
= 30 , then for an investment of 30 hammers into a granary, I'll start to get benefits just with growing one size. After it's pure benefit, thus it's a tremendous investment. If I got the concept right. It's a new paradigm to me...Before going further, while committing fishing, I'll be able to explore a tad more and get more assesses on my future decisions. Who knows what lie westward.
Warrior rush Cyrus is dismissed. I think warrior rushing on IMM is ridiculous. It is even more costlier than my 8.8% axe gamble and may fail more often. It is still imprinted in brain...that 4-5 warriors loss on a single monarch AI archer.
A screenshot because pictures are always fun to look at.
Spoiler :
A interest micro question given the bad layout of my BFC, should I burn one turn on going on Grass hill before mining plain hill next to wet corn. Once I reach that point. I should test.
EDIT
Ok, bots, we got a really nice spot. A flat out obvious spot and definitely the future bureaucratic capital.
Since it is getting late, I leave to that screenshot.
Spoiler :
Oh, do not bother about "Better short term" flag. It is in fact the better site having the most grassland tiles. A perfect relocalization of the capital. Hell, it is a better site than my capital!
Because of those phants, I feel cheesy elepult again, ha!
Manco Capac
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One thing I wonder since we the russian empire: perhaps one skillful could play along SP path and see if it is competitive to my usual corp. path. I sense most games will win earlier with corps. but with certain tricky starts. We may see "bizarreries".
Indeed. A poor map means an uninteresting and straightforward path whereas strong maps mean multiple paths to test and see which one is the strongest.
Indeed. A poor map means an uninteresting and straightforward path whereas strong maps mean multiple paths to test and see which one is the strongest.
Manco Capac
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Oh, btw,
Everyone is free to comment and propose stronger paths. C'mon why Kossin got all the fun back in 2010. This is early game. This is good to see strong paths. This is not a pure writeup, man.
Everyone is free to comment and propose stronger paths. C'mon why Kossin got all the fun back in 2010. This is early game. This is good to see strong paths. This is not a pure writeup, man.
Spoiler :
Zx Zero Zx
Deity
Because this start disgusts me so much I want to hurl. I hate fractal it gives so many starts like this. But I am not really sure what to do with this start, I think I would settle the better short term site as my second city. Or the corn Silver or corn double fur site. I am not sure.
I am surprised by your enthusiasm for Fishing. As I see it, AH is expensive, but you already possess Hunting and Agriculture, so it isn't going to get any cheaper.
There are three sites that interest me at this stage: BSTS; Silver; Pig + something.
All three benefit from Animal Husbandry (Silver indirectly, because there's no way you can give up the Corn unless the capital can also work the Cows).
The Pigs and Cows can help you to set several cities up before Pottery comes in. I hate laying down Cottages when I know that I won't be able to work them consistently for the next twenty turns.
Also, Workers. Workers need food man. Nom nom nom.
There are three sites that interest me at this stage: BSTS; Silver; Pig + something.
All three benefit from Animal Husbandry (Silver indirectly, because there's no way you can give up the Corn unless the capital can also work the Cows).
The Pigs and Cows can help you to set several cities up before Pottery comes in. I hate laying down Cottages when I know that I won't be able to work them consistently for the next twenty turns.
Also, Workers. Workers need food man. Nom nom nom.
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