Spring Patch Info

We had 29 celsius last week in Holland. :cool:
 
Jaybe said:
And only 40 Celsius yesterday where I am in the Las Vegas NV area.

We now return you to the topic at hand.... :crazyeye:
Click to expand...

We're back down to 14-ish, sooooo: fall again.
 
The d build updated for a third time. Come on guys, measure twice cut once.
 
Maybe they subscribe to update thrice, patch once. That should be a saying! Everyone start using it.
 
kaspergm said:
My 5 cents: Yes, it is.

Btw. I don't particularly agree that RnF is undercooked and beta. I don't necessarily agree with all design decisions, and there are definitely things that need balance tweaks, but the expansion seems very worked through from my perspective.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.

But for what it's worth, this is what I meant by "beta" and "undercooked".
  • I like all of the new systems in R&F. I really do. I really, really do. They're all solid. But some of them don't seem to have been fully fleshed out (yet). And some lack real polish (yet). And I think there are also some obvious missed opportunities (so far).

  • For example. I really like loyalty, but it seems a bit disconnected. It's really only impacted by age, population and proximity (governors, some buildings, alliances and policy cards seem to be only weakly related). Having religion influence loyalty is a big step in making loyalty more connected, although bit sad it looks like it'll only matter if you found a religion. But there are other gaps (albeit not a big as the religion one). For example, if two civs have the same government, I think that should reduce loyalty competition between those civs.

  • Or take governors. I'm really like their addition. I'm totally okay with them being cartoony and not based on historical figures and more like the old 'advisors'. But you shouldn't see the same names or pictures of other civs' governors (you should just see their title, e.g. Diplomat). And it's a bit sad your governors don't have animation and pass on tips or gossip. And I think there's a missed opportunity not governors have some variation on how much loyalty they give - I'd like to see one or two (e.g. Victor) be differentiated by giving more loyalty.

  • Or Emergencies. These seem... fine... I guess... at least from what I've read on these forums. But having only four types feels a bit ... underwhelming? I think there's a missed opportunity not having one based our colonialism (eg settling or conquering a city on another continent in certain situations - eg you're in the lead) or one based around the space race (I mean, the Russians launching Sputnik was, at the time, basically an international emergency for Western powers).

  • Making free cities 'always at war' seems simplistic. Indeed, I wonder if this is a placeholder until we get vassals or puppets.

  • Likewise, Era score hasn't been totally thought through. As it is, you're slightly discouraged from earning era score (or 'doing fun stuff'), first because excess / overflow era score gets lost between eras, and second because if you want a dark age (which I think is something you may want to aim for) the only way to do that is to avoid era score.

  • I also think there was a missed opportunity not making a dedication available to you each era based on your current government type; e.g. if you're in Monarchy, one of your dedications is Chivalric Tradition, which gives you era score from Stables and Knight and Pikemen kills, or in a golden age, culture from Knight and Pikemen kills.
But, yeah, I can see some stuff is just a difference of opinion on design. E.g. I think the first tier government buildings are very gimmicky and all over the place. I think they would have been better (felt more wholistic) by all giving + / - loyalty and or amentities in certain circumstances, and then giving you another legacy card, (eg Tradition, Loyalty, Honour Legacy Cards, in addition to your Oligarchy, Autocracy etc. Legacy Card) that contained any unique ability or affect (eg free builder when you found a city). But it seems like everyone else really likes all the government buildings (or, actually, doesn't care about them really). So, I guess I'm on my own on that one?

I know I gripe a lot on this forum. Sorry about that. There is one topic where I am properly really annoyed (ahem. England. ahem.). But mostly I think Vanilla and R&F are great. Really great. There isn't any other video game I want to play - not by a long way. The other things I 'gripe' about are really areas where I just think Civ might move from "great" to "exceptional, extraordinary".
 
Eagle Pursuit said:
The d build updated for a third time. Come on guys, measure twice cut once.
Click to expand...

No offense, but in your analogy they are doing the measuring right now. The cutting will be when they release the patch. So, in actuality, they have measured three times. Good on them!
 
acluewithout said:
But for what it's worth, this is what I meant by "beta" and "undercooked".
Click to expand...
I agree with most if not all of your objections, I just don't think it qualifies as labeling the release a "beta". For better or worse, the expansion works like the developers wanted it to - well, at least it works, we can always make assumptions on whether it's how they wanted it or not. Some of the problems you mention can and hopefully will be tweaked either through patches or mods.
 
I think Firaxis have said there will be another expansion, which will focus on the late game, and will (likely) include some sort of world congress etc. Given that, I think some of the systems in R&F might have been envisaged as stepping stones towards that final expansion (Firaxis are almost certainly working on both in parallel to some degree). Emergencies in particular look that way - I could definitely see a more complex diplomacy system using them as their starting point. That's what I mean by "beta".

If you want another example of this, have a look at how the religion lense was updated in Vanilla just before R&F came out. Firaxis had re-worked the religion lense and then used that same approach for loyalty or (which I think is more likely) had decided to use that sort of lense for loyalty and then gave rolled it out for religion (using religion as a trial / beta).
 
acluewithout said:
But mostly I think Vanilla and R&F are great. Really great.
Click to expand...

I've said this a couple of times before on these forums but I feel the game is pretty great with nice new ideas and mechanics but it falls short when it comes to the AI using those mechanics properly. That goes for the new stuff that came with R&F as well. At first I liked the loyalty concept, hoping it would limit all the forward settling crap. But I now see civs later on in the game settling cities at completely stupid locations, right next to 2-3 big rival cities causing them to flip in 3-5 turns. Basically giving away cities. It just makes me sigh.
This game might work better in multiplayer but for me this is not the kind of game I want to play in multiplayer, takes too long.
 
To make Eagle Pursuit's ability to predict their behaviour more difficult, I vote that Firaxis throw us all off by releasing a Wednesday patch today

With all bugs firmly squished, of course.
 
I wish Firaxis would release the final patch log. At least, this would spice up the wait a little! I need to know what happens to Magnus ^^
 
RealHuhn said:
I wish Firaxis would release the final patch log. At least, this would spice up the wait a little! I need to know what happens to Magnus ^^
Click to expand...
But if they're still working on it (as is evidenced by their updating of the D build), then there is no "final" patch log yet. The list is still subject to be changed.
 
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