SSE/EE For Deity Masters (Walkthrough)

[obsolete]

1635
Another G-Spy pops.
* My defense pact with Justin is canceled, because he declares war on Monte.
-ni

1660
We steal Scientific Method, and that propels us into the Industrial Era!

Spoiler :

EoL

 

[DMOC]

*peeks at scoreboard*

Eeek, good luck...


PS: I just tried this strategy out against a bunch of emperor level AI's and I'm completely crushing them. Game was also one of the easiest ever for me to play so apparently your espionage strategy works, and I'll also try for higher levels.

 

[obsolete]

Yes, I seem to always be at the bottom of the score-board list, vs what seems to be impossible odds. Contrary to popular belief, land is not a real indication of power. And this is too over-estimated by even the software.

Anyhow, I should add in some points I think I may have missed.

Shortly after building the Trojanhorse city, I ended up up-grading the official patch to Bhruic's later patches. Without these, I don't know if I would have bothered completing this game. This due to the obelisk bug, and some other nasty things.

I also want to point out that when I also mentioned the problem about spies being extremely tedious not showing their fortification, he also patched that as well. Without this, either your EE's would be almost unplayable in some situations, or you'd have to spend many, many clicks on very tedious things. So thank Bhruic for this walkthrough and your future comfort in playing this style.

Ohh final note, after installing the unofficial patch, I noticed that you can no longer trade techs away on the same turn you steal them. You may notice this how suddenly I will stop trading techs instantly after the theft.

 

[obsolete]

The Industrial Era!

1660
We steal Biology. I consider this a double-whammy boost. Not only does it boost our SE economy through more food, but it also allows us to build the national park, for yet another boost.

-ni

1665
We trade Biology to Caesar for Communism & 80g.

* Lets also trade it to Monte for:
Replaceable Parts
Economics
110g.

** Also, lets steal Medicine
Usually I don't think anything of this tech, because I prefer to stay in State-Property when I can.
-ni

1670
Lets trade it to Caesar for:

Steam Power
360g.

-ni

1675
And now lets trade it to Monte for Steel.
-ni

1690
We steal Rail-Road.
Finally! Another production boost is on its way.
-ni

1695
We steal Corporation. (This one the Ais never like to trade)
Well, +1 trade-routes is better than nothing!
-ni

1725
We steal Assembly Line.
Great for production...
Great for defence...
Just terrible for pollution though...
-ni

1730
We trade Railroad to Monte for Physics and 30g.

-ni

1745
Some science pollution caused us to make a great-Scientist. That's alright, as we were planning to probably run a golden-age somewhere during the space-race. Just keep him for a while to see what develops.
-ni

1750
We steal Electricity.
-ni

1760
We trade it to monte for Rifling & 20g.

Yeah, I know it's a massive rip-off, but what else can you do.
-ni

1775
Another G-Spy pops.

*Also, we steal Industrialism.

Unfortunately... we discover that even our nicely well planned out land-grab from the beginning seems to have been almost a failed attempt. We simply don't have ANY aluminum.
Uughh, and looks like Justinian doesn't have any to trade with us either. Boy, are we in for it now! Maybe a miracle can happen and we'll discover some from a mine (like that's ever going to happen!).

Alright, we'll just have to forgo one of our favourite civics (SP) and just have to adapt environmentalism and go for the Aluminum. Co (what a waste!).

Note: National epic is being built in the city here where I have the NP. This is the best synergy I can give that city at the moment. In the meantime, it is mostly focusing on spy specialists, and even the northern coastal city is cranking out gold, in order to help me run the spy-slider at 100%

 

[obsolete]

1780
We trade it to Monte for Fascism & 30g.
I want this to build the corresponding national wonder in my FP city. I want a little more culture there, and also to be prepared for any future wars.
-ni

1790
We steal Combustion.
-ni

1808
We steal Plastics. And with this we are propelled into the Modern Era.

Spoiler :

Note: We stopped using the Trojan-Horse-City, and stole this tech from Saladin instead. It seems he had built a little city on the coast near the Trojan-city. And since Saladin is higher up the tech-tree, it only makes sense to steal from him at this point. Now I just have to ensure that Saladin stays the most advanced, and I should not have too many problems.


- EoL

 

[Lord Chambers]

Seven Great Spies and one Great Priest by turn 256. How many espionage points is your Scotland Yard city producing per turn at this point?

You settled the first two Great Spies and built Scotland Yard with a third. Don't you produce more EPs with a single settled Spy and Scotland Yard than with two settled Spies and no Scotland Yard?

 

[timmy827]

That is nice and all WHEN YOU ARE ALL BY YOURSELF.

I needed to get very strong culture up very early, for obvious reasons. Not just to get my GATE set-up, but to also prevent the painful deity culture from winning out.

If you read how culture mechanics works, you will see why this is so. There is no comparison between the two in this spot. I can always get a granary at a future time, but you can not win tile-ownership so easy once you lose it.

I am NOT wasting hammers & time on a grainery when I still have obelisk/temple/library/monstery/etc... to build.

Point taken. I do understand the cultural mechanics and why getting the expansions early is very important. However you only have to worry about this in border cities. Looking at 940AD picture, you have two border cities (and I can appreciate the extra importance of expanding their borders to block the rest of the land from Justinian), and will get 2 more border cities with the trojan horse. Not having granaries in the other cities still seems like a mistake.

 

[Gliese 581]

You settled the first two Great Spies and built Scotland Yard with a third. Don't you produce more EPs with a single settled Spy and Scotland Yard than with two settled Spies and no Scotland Yard?

Yes long term but he didn't use the esp slider then OR didn't generate enough commerce to consider a SY of immediate benefit.
The argument can still be made for thinking long term of course, but I'll leave that discussion to those who've had better success with EE games.

 

[Johnpecan]

General question about a SSE/EE:

Do you only run spy specialists? I must be missing something. A courthouse allows 1 spy specialist, how do you get more than that pre-constitution? I'm assuming the answer is to not transition to a pure EE until democracy, that would be 5 spies total which is pretty good, another 2 when you hit communism.

I'm a huge proponent of obsolete's sse/we strats and play almost exclusively with a similar strat now, but I couldn't get my EE running in this sse/ee game. I kept having the problem of too many specialists and not being able to turn them into spies.

 

[Akadah]

Shortly after building the Trojanhorse city, I ended up up-grading the official patch to Bhruic's later patches. Without these, I don't know if I would have bothered completing this game. This due to the obelisk bug, and some other nasty things.

I also want to point out that when I also mentioned the problem about spies being extremely tedious not showing their fortification, he also patched that as well. Without this, either your EE's would be almost unplayable in some situations, or you'd have to spend many, many clicks on very tedious things. So thank Bhruic for this walkthrough and your future comfort in playing this style.

Which patch is this?

 

[r_rolo1]

^^Bhruic's patch... it solves some issues brought by the oficial 3.13 patch. Check it in here

 

[Quotey]

You couldn't get a world map in ANY of those trade deals? Not even the Electricity for Rifling one? C'mon Obsolete! Being Able To Look At The Map Is Power!

 

[siggboy]

He knows the map already since it's a replay . (I'm impressed, BTW)

 

[cripp7]

General question about a SSE/EE:

Do you only run spy specialists? I must be missing something. A courthouse allows 1 spy specialist, how do you get more than that pre-constitution? I'm assuming the answer is to not transition to a pure EE until democracy, that would be 5 spies total which is pretty good, another 2 when you hit communism.

That's what I'm wondering also, I understand the Superspy gives 12 which is a big boost , but how do you generate huge amount of points pre-con.
cripp

 

[ABigCivFan]

Could you summarize how many techs in total you stole from the AIs in this game? How many missions failed? With each failed mission you suffer a diplo penalty correct? What are the average success probablity for stealing techs?

It seems to me that relying on stealing techs in a Deity game is a very unreliable strategy for the following reasons:

1. Every spy mission is a big gamble; assume you can successfully steal techs 60% of the times, this means you expect to fail 4 times for every 10 tries and wasting tons of EPs since stealing tech is the most expensive spy mission.

2. Failed missions cause diplo penalties. Not for long, the only civ you are stealing from could become pissed at you and steam roll over your weak empire.

Comparing to other more reliable strategies i.e. Light bulb/Tech trade; warmongering and etc. the players have much more control of the game rather then dependend on something that only works 50-60% of the times.

p.s. With an early granary, you can whip temples/monesteries/theaters/Liberaries/Universities much much faster than you can hammer build them. Granary should almost always be your 1st or 2nd (after monument) build in every city.

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

1. Every spy mission is a big gamble; assume you can successfully steal techs 60% of the times, this means you expect to fail 4 times for every 10 tries and wasting tons of EPs since stealing tech is the most expensive spy mission.

Failed missions don't cost EP. You only spend the EP when you succeed.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Awesome game from you as usual, but all it does is demonstrate your great Civ4 skills. I think I missed two points of this game:

1) Under what situations would an EE be better than the typical CE or SE?
2) I see a lot of workshops in your screenshots. What synergy does workshops have with an EE, rather than farms or cottages?

 

[Zanthra]

So why can't cities build espionage?

 

[mystyfly]

2) I see a lot of workshops in your screenshots. What synergy does workshops have with an EE, rather than farms or cottages?

to build spies

@obs, could you play a game with no or limited brokering? This, coupled with stealing (monopoly) techs is incredibly powerful.

 

[DMOC]

So why can't cities build espionage?

That might make this strategy overpowered (I think?). If a city can generate 30 raw hammers before the AD's (such as with a high prod, bureaucracy capital), that would give insane EP.