ST5 - The Wall Must Fall

[Grimjack]

I do not KNOW they tried that. Given the frequency of extortion attempts I usually get when I am a few techs ahead of an aggressive AI, I think it is a fairly accurate guess.

I have been trying to conserve horses, since they are more useful to upgrade to knights, and used Medievals for attacks. Losses are somewhat heavy though ( Although as expected, given the odds. )

I think we ought to somehow get an advanced base, either by capturing an outlying city ( semihard, since they all have walls.... Ought to be done however, to check if we get to keep the walls even though we do not know the wonder.) Or by settling down in the desert to get a city of our own. This will possibly annoy the mongols a bit. Mongols are heavy in archers, and if they upgrade those, they will be a fearsome force. ( Unless they move out on the plains. )

Grimjack

ChrTr My advisors come from the mod-forum here at civfanatics.

 

[hotrod0823]

I've opened the game to look around but have not started yet. Something come up tonight and couldn't play. I will be able to play tomorrow late but would understand if we need to skip me this round.

Sorry for the delay

Hotrod

 

[T-hawk]

Take your time. Assuming NewDestroyer doesn't show, I'm up next, and I'm busy for the weekend until Sunday evening anyway.

 

[hotrod0823]

Okay. Will have it up by Sunday

 

[hotrod0823]

ST5

250 AD (0): Takes a few minutes to get reaquanted with the game. MDI are still healing but should be ready before our settler arrrives. We still have cities with Jags and spears in defence but as long as the threat is at arms length they can remain. A bit concerned about the naked settler. Rush the Courthhouse in Xochicalco for 56 gold. Change Tzintzuntzen to a courthouse.

IBNT: We apparently have troups in greek territory and wants them removed. I decide to sign and ROP to aid our movement south.

260 aD (1): Tlatelolco builds a pike and starts on a duct. Tlaxcala builds a horse starts another. Cali buids a harbor starts a horse. Xochicalco builds a courthouse starts a pike. Cleanup 3 approaching celt units, 2 MDI and an elite archer die at our hands with a promotion. 2 elite victories but no leaders. The MDI on the mountain are not ready to move yet. The path to the south is getting a bit congested with greek and Mongol units. With no new reach in sight. Babs have theology and greeks have invention but no one else has anything I turn on research for chivalry due in 12 turns with -6 gpt. Maybe we will get it sooner but this guarrentees T-Hawk can play with knights.

270 AD (2): Continue moving south. Missed the MM of Tenoch. will get the worker next turn. Build our last 2 embassies. Babs will get Sistene's in 4 turns and have only 1 source of iron and no horses. His culture is at 25cpt with the colossus, GLight, Oracle and soon to be Sistene.s

280 AD (3): Tenoch builds a worker starts another. Teoti continues with horses, Texcoco builds a cat starts a pike. 2 more elite victories in the south. 1 more horsey promoted. Reinforcement arrive next turn to move on the celt cities soonish.

290 AD (4): Tenoch builds a worker starts another. Tlacopan builds horse starts courthouse. Move a stack of 10 towards Camulodunum, overkill, probably but better to have 1 too many then too little.

300 AD (5): Seeing only a regular spear in Camulodunum I elect to see how a horsey fares. Kill 3 spears and take the city. Would rather replace it with our own but our settler is still aways away and will have to raze Alesia for sure.

310 AD (6): WW is up to 21% and Teoti at 12 riots. Scroll to check the rest. Lux up to 10%.

320 aD (7): Calix buids horse starts duct. Babs complete sistenes. Moving to disconnect the visible iron North of Alesia. There is more down south. Lose a horse attacking a reg MDI in the trees.

330 AD (8): Continue the worker parade. Texcoco builds a pike starts market it needs some happiness help. Moving on Alesia. Renegociate with Greece. Ivory gets us spices and WM. Mongols just picked up Invention we will have it next turn. Drop lux to 0%.

340 AD (9): It was a tough battle but 3 pikes and an archer fall in Alesia and so goes the city. We have learned invention and start on a couple longbows. Mongols now have Theology and Greeks have guns. No trades possible.

350 AD (10): With WW on the rise to 33% Texcoco riots. Hire entertainer first will check if lux is worth it. At this point I had to save to avoid a crash. If the turn feels incomplete it is because it is. Got a low virtually memory message and saved at this point. Some units have movement left. A Settler is almost in the area to claim more Celt territory. Chivalry in 3 turns. Lux needs to go up to fire entertainer in Texcoco. I think we are good with workers and can change the capital to something else. I held the horses back for upgrading and only pressed on the Celts with units in the area or already on route. A few towns are on ducts but we have happiness issue so I would'nt be surprised if they get vetoed.

here is the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/st5_350AD.zip

 

[T-hawk]

OK. Got it, should be able to play tomorrow.

Researching Chivalry - could be a good call. Does anyone else have it yet? If not, pulling a monopoly on that tech should get us back to parity instantly. And having knights will finally let us start testing the mod (other than the Great Wall effect which we're already seeing, of course.)

 

[hotrod0823]

Nope no chivalry out yet. We have horses ready to upgrade but will take awhile to go south. Don't forget we have the Great Library so research can be turned back off.

 

[T-hawk]

Ugh. I should just put in my sig that if I ever say I'm going to play on Monday, I'm not going to get around to doing so. I'm also busy all of tonight. Griselda, if you want, you can go ahead with it and swap with me for this round.

 

[Griselda]

I got it. It seems strange to play again when only two people have gone since my last turn, but these things happen sometimes.

-Griselda

 

[Griselda]

Been a busy week for me as well, but with a short rotation and everyone busy, I figured I could take a couple of days to play my turn.

I didn't do much, but I think I'm leaving the next leader in very good shape to make some progress.

(0) 350 AD - Heavy-handed vetoing all around. I agreed with your comment about the aqueducts, hotrod. I looked at the cities building ducts, and most of them didn't have a marketplace, cathedral, or granary, and were at their happiness limit at size 6 due to war weariness. If we'd have built the aqueducts, we wouldn't be able to build anything else until we'd gotten those other three buildings done in each city, and it didn't seem wise to tie them all up for that long.

I realize that early/middle ages was can seriously stunt a civ's growth, especially when they don't let their cities grow past 6, but I didn't think we were ready. I swapped them to marketplaces, because they'd need those to grow anyways, plus they could provide some immediate help with the war weariness and the cash flow. Cities that got markets done got switched to units, but it should be no problem for the next leader to swap them back to infra if they prefer.

Also, we have 30 workers, so it was time for Tenoch to close the worker factory. I was thinking temple, then aqueduct, but plans change (see below).

I MM'ed all our stuck-at-6 cities for shields, with pretty good results (though we don't have a lot of high-shield tiles for them yet of course).

The Babs have education They lack gunpowder, but Greece has it. Our library's days are numbered.

I rush a temple in Camulod. Even with saving gold for knights, we'll want to get some culture going down there.

BT - The Mongols attack our MDI, win, and capture the settler it was guarding! [punch] To add insult to injury, a Bab settler pair swoop out of the fog and settle right on the Alesia ruins. :die:

(1) 360 AD Oh well, this should be interesting, then. Tenochtitlan seems like the best choice for a new settler (we'll want to settle something close to Entremont, I'd guess). Our stack of units down south heads back to Camulod, so it will be ready when chivalry comes in.

Our incense deal is up. Last turn, Greece was offering to pay something for theology. This turn, theology won't even pay for the incense. So, I trade theology, 3 gpt, and 6 gold to Greece for incense. We no longer have to pay the Mongols for our ROP.

I wish we could import more lux, but there aren't any more.

(2) 370 AD - Teoti swaps to pikes for a while so that we have something to cover our beautiful longbows when they're ready for the long march south (hopefully there will still be a war by the time they get there).

BT - Babs now want some gpt for our wines for silks deal. The Greeks want us to ally vs. the Babs, no thanks. Chivalry in, science off.

(3) 380 AD - Our southern workers will need to help the Mongols with their road construction if we want resources to flow south.

We are the first to Chivalry, but I'm just not seeing any good deals. Greece still has a monopoly on gunpowder, which would be outrageously expensive, even with our monopoly on chivalry. The Babs have a monopoly on education, but I'm guessing we don't want to buy that (especially if we have no gunpowder yet). All civs will pay all their gold for chivalry, which isn't much. Greece has some 40-odd gpt, the rest have chump change. I decide to hold off, maybe something better will come along?

BT - Market completes in Tlatel.

(4) 390 AD - Seven knights are upgraded in Teoti. The road to Camulod will be done soon.

BT - Tenoch settler - temple

(5) 400 AD - Knights head south. There's also another stack of a pike, some longbows, and that settler. They'll arrive in 2050 sometime.

Still no change on the Chivalry front. Both Greece and the Babs are able to offer slightly more money for it each turn. I wait...

BT - Disease in Teoti. The Celts move some units up towards Camulod.

(6) 410 AD - I use our 2 MDI to clear some Celtic MDI off the road to get our workers back home. One has to stay exposed while slightly wounded, but at this point it seems like the horses are more valuable, so I don't cover it.

BT - Greeks, Babs peace. If neither of them have chivalry, but they trade their current techs, we're in good shape. Disease, part two, of course. Tlacopan's market completes. Greeks complete Leo's. We need to do something about those pesky Greeks.

(7) 420 AD - Well, the borkering plan would have worked, except for one thing- it looks like the Mongols got Chivalry just this past turn, and that plus the peace caused everybody to trade everything. One more turn from the Mongols and it would have been a different story. Anyway, our library will expire next turn. Hopefully, the Mongols will still lack gunpowder when that one comes in (they have chivalry and education).

BT- Gunpowder and Education come through the library. It seems quick, but I always figure it's worked well if I manage to get gunpowder out of it. Oh, and we have saltpeter under Tlaxcala. [dance] . The Babs start Copernicus.

(8) 430 AD Hmm, the Mongols do lack gunpowder, but they're broke. Sigh.

BT - Babs request change and TM, cave. Tenochtitlan temple - market. BTW, our small cities with markets are doing just fine now, happiness-wise.

(9) 440 AD With the Babylonian wars over, the Greeks look to be focusing in on the Celts. They have a lot of units moving south, although we have the only knights I've seen so far. They look like they might be headed towards Veru. I'm thinking we might as well just head for Entremont to ensure that we get there before they do? The roads are clogged with Greek units and hard to use.

(10) 450 AD Mostly moving units, hopefully setting up our next leader. Who knows, the wall could fall this next turn!

Tear Down The Wall!

 

[Grimjack]

Good going there Griselda.

T-Hawk now then ?

Grimjack

 

[T-hawk]

Actually, I was thinking Gris would get it back sooner than that; I could've played on Wed or Thurs night. But now, I'm away from my Civ3 computer for the weekend, and the old Pentium clunker at my parents' house can't play PTW 1.27 due to CD protection issues. So I'll have to beg for a skip.

Good progress though, Gris. Yeah, marketplaces are quite often the most worthwhile buliding to build first, what with the dual benefits of cash and happiness. Gunpowder from the GL is always good, although if the Celts get it we'll be facing the 5-defense muskets (behind walls, ouch.) We can beeline to capturing Entremont (if possible, heh) and then make peace, possibly extracting a pointy-stick tech or two.

Falsfire would up now after Gris, then Grimjack.

 

[Grimjack]

Figure any celtish muskets would not be very afraid of our shining knights.... Fortified behind walls, they are comparable to infantry. Nasty piece of defense that.

Grimjack

 

[Griselda]

Sorry about that T-hawk. When I grabbed it, I expected to be able to play and post right away. When I couldn't finish it all in one sitting, it was a while until I was able to find the time to sit down and play again.

Work should ease off a bit in the next few weeks. Now- off to Epic 36!

 

[Grimjack]

Unless I hear otherwise, I will grab it in some 12 hours to get game going again.

Grimjack

 

[T-hawk]

Falsfire, where are you? I guess it's yours whenever you want it, Grimjack.

 

[Grimjack]

Got it. Have some small hope to finish tonight, but do not hold your breaths.

Have a somewhat skewed impression on how long time a turn takes from having invested a couple of hours into EPIC36/LK51.
( Huge games for those not knowing. )

Grimjack

 

[Grimjack]

Turn comes in. Not spectacular, but hopefully not bad either. Continued the buildup Griselda started, and next player ought to raze the wall.

ST5-Middle mediaval ages.
Plans: Burn Entremont and the blasphemy that is walls.

450AD:It may be a bit late, but I start a min science on Printing press, using a scientist in Tzintzuen this turn. Will use a scientist in the captured city down south next turn, when it has grown to size 2.
Hmm, had I missed a rep hit somewhere ? I acnnot use our only source of Saltpeter to tarde with Hammu. Get never accept even for small amounts of gold.
Hammu and Alex is up Astronomy. Some pointed stick after Entremont perhaps.

IBT: Babs gives our forces a small speed boost, by demanding we leave their territory. Camul gets its walls, and I set a citizen on science here. Jungleclearing reveals a bonus grass

460AD: Spend 180 gold rushing a marketplace in Texcoco. It was running two clowns, and is one of our better cities. SIgn a RoP with Hammu, in order to not get further delays in my movement of knights.

IBT: A celtish medieval retreats our elite knight.

470AD Kill off the offending medieval, but not before it retreats another knight. Start to peel of workers out of overfed size 6 cities before continuing with infra push. I hope the knights we do have is up to the task, as reinforcements are few and far away.
Main decision is if I should statr sige at once, or wait a couple of turns for the three longbows. At least it if 'only' a pike at the top of entremont.

480AD Move knights to top of mountain, waiting for the two missing knights and the three longbows. Cracking the capital of a military civ will take more than 7 knights.

IBT: Greeks sign peace with Celts. This was not good. Had hoped they would war for another couple of turns.
Greeks also cancel the RoP.
A celtish longbow impales itself on a knight in the forest.
Greeks start Copernicus.

490AD Move our newly finished Musket to greek border city of Tzin. The knight that defended itself so good against the medieval archer is killed by another longbow when I attack. Bah.

IBT: A Mediaval defeats one of our knights fortified on a mountaintop, without taking any losses at all.

500AD The mediaval inflicts serious wounds on the attacking knight, but is finally defeated.

IBT; We defend against a longbow. Our forces are melting away, and I start to regret grouping on the mountain outside Entremont. Time to check if I can sign in the greeks for another round of warfare.

510 AD SIgn in greeks for 17 gpt for more warfare, hoping they will take some of the heat off of our knights who will have to regroup outside borders to heal and wait for reinforcements.

IBT: Lots of movement

520AD STill waiting for reinforcements. Kill of a medieval who comes to close.

IBT NO attacks this turn.

530AD More maneuvering.

IBT: Greeks start Bachs.

540AD OUr forces are almost collected now. Will not manage to make the assault next turn though, but will let next player do the honors with as much force as we can muster.
Rush an Aqueduct in Tlat.

IBT: Our pikeman manages to defend against a longbow, but is redlined.
Babs start Bachs and Magellans. Will leave tech trading to next player as well. Perhaps some pointy stick as soon as we can free up forces from the Celt campaign.

550AD All our forces are collected on the mountaintop outside Entremont. Some 8 knights have movement left as well, in case you think that is enough to crack a capital. My advice would be to wait for next turn, when you have three more knights and three longbows.
Have started to build up our treasury, and rushed sparingly. No good idea on where we would want Forbidden palace. Depends on if we go against Mongols or Greeks next.

Grimjack

Save

 

[hotrod0823]

I see it but may not get to it until tomorrow night. Early day at work tomorrow.

 

[T-hawk]

Okay. Looks like we'll achieve our goal - and even before the Wall actually expires. We can make peace as soon as Entremont falls. What happens if it flips back? Rather than committing us to ruining our reputation, I say that if Entremont flips, we wait until the active peace treaty expires, but then declare war again as soon as that happens to recapture the city.

Of course, we could go for more Celtic territory, since we've still got that much military there and with the Great Wall in our hands. Not to mention going for GLs as well. It's up to Hotrod.