Star Wars: The Mod Strikes Back

[Chris85]

Yay! Another chance to argue unit trees to the death again. Unfortunately, I can't download it as well, must be something wrong with the upload system, because I can't upload anything either.

I'm trying get back to chugging along with units. I've also tried experimenting with working on terrains. I might be able to make a newer, better Lukree Space style terrain along with a 1x1/2x2 size planet terrain for galactic maps However, I'm still far from making anything useful out of it, so I'll get back to that when I do.

 

[odintheking]

please, please, please can we forget about the vong....

they are a cool race, very good, but we have only descriptions to know what the units look like, no proper sources to extract them from.

Vong scenario involve a pre-prepared galactic map, as the vong do not create their own cities but steal those of the republic. if you want to do this, then go ahead.

we will work on he vong AFTER the main mod. if ever. so forget about it for now. please!

@ odintheking did u upload it right? it says 'file not found'

EDIT: i agree with sheepmonster- i think the vong, with all the added extra work that would need to be put in to them, should be saved for some sort of 'expansion pack' or something for the Star Wars mod- i just dont think we have time to focus on the vong when our timetable for completing the mod is growing shorter.

but i still think the vong should be included in the mod- just later, not now.

I said "if we finish early we could do the YV expansion". I'm not focusing on them right now.

@the download thing - that's weird,

 

[Chris85]

@odin - the link's working now.

I posted 3 new advisors in the Star Wars Advisor thread over in the Graphics Forum. They're Han Solo(Trade), Yoda(Foreign), and Padme Amidala(Cultural).

You can get'em here ---> http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3322603&postcount=8

 

[starwarscrazy]

@odintheking sry must've missed that i was skimming

ok- comments

i think the only civ that should have the probe droids should be the empire

most of the changes or whatever i agree with except for the ones in the ground offensive and defensive list- i would rather see something slightly different (revisions will be uploaded when possible)

i also made slight revisions to the light ground vehicles list where i thought they were needed. as opposed to uploading the entire tree i just have the parts that i feel ought to be changed. Following with odin's example, i have kept the units whose graphics we can reuse in the same color.

The revised editions of the ground offensive, defensive, and light ground vehicles list include a total of only 30 units, most of which have already been made, and i just wouldnt want to see them go to waste.

unfortunately now the upload isnt working . . . so ill upload it later . . .

 

[Darth Bob]

While speaking of units i would like to say that for the Republic and the Empire someone should make an A5 Juggernaut and/or and A6 Juggernaut (this kind was in Episode III).
Additionally a Venator class Star Destroyer (Star Destroyer from episode III) is very important to a Republic and early Empire civ and I last heard that TheMorpheus is making one. So someone should check up on how far the unit is to completion.

 

[Chris85]

After studying Odin's changes to SWC's unit tree, I decided to make one of my own from the ground up that is based off of theirs. You can find the download at the end of this post. I managed to reduced the number of units below 150 and the number of unfinished units below 50. I've made a lot of changes so I'm going to explain why I did what I did.


- The main infantry line is still basically the same as it has always been. I've now made the Standard Infantry line the Draft line as well.

- One of the 1st things that's noticeable is the absence of the Defensive Infantry line. The reason I slimmed it down and changed the name to Special Infantry, is the fact that the AI favors building up it's defenses slightly more than building an offensive army, so I thought it would be weird seeing more Imperial Guards than Stormtroopers. The Standard Infantry line will be equal between offense and defense in the start of the game, but will become more defensive oriented as you develop stronger mech units later in the game. The Special Infantry line is for Elite units that are stronger defenders than typical infantry but cost more.

- Another thing about the Special Infantry is the AT-RT replacing the Republic Guard. The Republic Guard are really only used to oversee the Senate and protect the Chancellor. The AT-RT is mainly used for mop up duty after battles or maintaining civil order in cities and is not very effective attacking on the open battlefield so I see it more as a city defender. This also allowed me to add the AT-AP in the Mech line. Although, I don't really mind if anyone changes this back to Republic Guard.

- For Jedi and Sith we should try to limit their numbers by making them only producable through wonders.

- The Mech catagories are tricky so I reorganized them into a Mounted/Standard Mech line and a Heavy Mech line. I did this so we can have AT-STs coexisting with AT-ATs and the like. I also arranged it so there would be 2 new mechs in each era:

Era 1 - Mounted / Scout
Era 2 - Mech / Gunship
Era 3 - Mech / Heavy Mech
Era 4 - Mech / Heavy Mech​

- Starfighters are pretty much the same. BTW, The B-Wing is separate from the X-Wing upgrade line.

- To reduce the number of units, The Fast Fighter line is now narrowed down to 3rd and 4th era except for the Republic which still gets 3. I also narrowed the Shuttle/Light Cruiser line for the same reason.

- I gave the Acclamator to the Empire, because I couldn't come up with a 3rd medium sized warship. I guess this isn't that bad since Acclamators were still in use early on in the Empire.

- The Executor SSD is now the Imperial Command Ship, because none of the other 3 civs have a ship that could come even close to an Eclipse SSD. Although the Executor is still stronger than the other 3 and this also reduces our unfinshed units by 1.

- For the Barbarians I wasn't sure what to use. Although I do remember there being discussion on barbarians earlier in this massive thread, I might have to dig around.

- I also haven't gotten to alien resource units as they complicate things even more.


I think that's about it. Any comments? Is it any good?

I hope you can upload those changes SWC so we can see what you did.

 

[Chris85]

Here's a new unit list I made that coincides with my new unit tree. The number of unfinished units are now under 50. Units that haven't yet been made are in italics. Units that are listed like this > "Unit1/Unit2" share the same graphics.

Rebel Alliance - 23/33

Ground Units
Admiral Ackbar
Armed Landspeeder
Captured AT-AT - (Use AT-AT graphics)
Captured AT-ST - (Use AT-ST graphics)
Fleet Trooper/Rebel Defender/Rebel Guard
Hoth Laser Turret - (Use same graphics for Light, Medium, Heavy, Advanced)
Jedi Padawan/Jedi Learner
Jedi Knight
Jedi Master
Modified T-16 Skyhopper
Swoop Bike
*Airspeeder/Snowspeeder
*Hoth Soldier
*Mon Calamari Trooper
*Mon Mothma
*Rebel Commando
*Tauntaun Rider
*Torpedo Tank

Space Units
A-Wing
B-Wing
Corellian Corvette
E-Wing
MC-80 Cruiser
Medium Transport/Medium Transport II
Nebulan Frigate
X-Wing (T-65 & NJ-1)
YT-1300
YT-2400
Y-Wing
Z-95 Headhunter
*K-Wing
*"Home 1" MC-85 Cruiser
*MC-40 Cruiser


Galactic Empire - 27/33

Ground Units
AT-AT
AT-PT
AT-ST
Dark Trooper
Darth Vader
Dewback Trooper
General Veers
Gun Turret - (Use same graphics for Light, Medium, Heavy, Advanced)
Heavy Stormtrooper
Sith Apprentice/Sith Novice
Sith Knight
Sith Lord
Snowtrooper
Speeder Bike
Stormtrooper
*Imperial High Guard/Adv. Imperial High Guard
*Sandtrooper
*Skipray Blastboat
*TIE Crawler
*TX-130 Fighter Tank

Space Units
Acclamator Assault Ship
Carrack Cruiser
Imperial Lander/Imperial Lander II
Imperial Star Destroyer
Lambda Shuttle
Super Star Destroyer
TIE Advanced
TIE Bomber/Tie Interdictor
TIE Defender
TIE Fighter
TIE Interceptor/TIE Avenger
Victory Star Destroyer
*Assault Gunboat


Confederacy - 23/34

Ground Units
AAT
Battle Droid
Droideka/Shielded Droideka
Hailfire Droid
Homing Spider Droid
MTT
Probe Droid
Sith Apprentice/Sith Novice
Sith Knight
Sith Lord
STAP
Super Battle Droid
Tank Droid
*Count Dooku
*Droid Gunship
*Dwarf Spider Droid
*General Grievous
*Geonosian Sonic Cannon - (Use same graphics for Light, Medium, Heavy, Advanced)
*Geonosian Warrior
*Magna Guard
*Orray Trooper

Space Units
Banking Clan Frigate
Commerce Guild Destroyer
Commerce Shuttle - (Use Separatist Transport graphics)
Droid Bomber/Hvy Droid Bomber
Droid Control Ship
Droid Fighter
Droid Lander/Droid Lander II
Geonosian Fighter
"Invisible Hand" Providence Destroyer
Tri-Fighter
*Lapiz Shuttle
*Sith Infiltrator/Sith Fighter
*Techno Union Ship



Galactic Republic - 20/33

Ground Units
ARC Trooper
AT-TE
AT-XT
Clone Trooper/Clone Recruit
Heavy Clone Trooper
Jedi Padawan/Jedi Learner
Jedi Knight
Jedi Master
Juggernaut
Republic Gunship
Speeder Bike Clone
SPHA-T - (Use same graphics for Light, Medium, Heavy, Advanced)
Yoda
*AT-AP
*AT-RT
*Mounted Clone
*Palpatine
*Republic Guard/Adv. Republic Guard

Space Units
Acclamator Assault Ship
ARC-170 Fighter
Corellian Gunship
Bulk Transport/Bulk Transport II
Jedi Starfighter (Delta-7 Aethersprite)
Victory Star Destroyer
Z-95 Headhunter
*Clone Bomber/Hvy Clone Bomber
*Diplomatic Cruiser
*Jedi Interceptor (Eta-2 Actis)
*Mandator Dreadnaught
*Theta Shuttle
*V-19 Torrent
*V-Wing
*Venator Star Destroyer


Yuuzhan Vong - ON HOLD


Misc Units - 33/33
Anti-Air Turret
Basic Infantry - (Uses Civ3 Marine graphics)
Beam Tube Trooper
Bounty Hunter
Cloud Car
Death Star
Desert Skiff
Dreadnaught
Ewok Warrior
Gungan Trooper
Jawa
Jawa Droid
Kaadu Cavalry
Mara Jade
Mounted Naboo Guard
MSE-6 Droid
Naboo Grenadier
Naboo Starfighter
Planetary Shield
Planetary Turbolaser
Protocol Droid
Probe Droid
R2 Droid
Sandcrawler
Slave I
Slaver Ship
Slug Fighter
Slug Transport
Squib Priest
Tusken Raider
Wookiee Bowcaster
Wookiee Warrior

 

[Flamand]

You don't need the Death Star? I was planning to make a new one, because the old one was a bit lame, but if no one is gonna use it I won't waste my time with it...

 

[starwarscrazy]

well, this is great i go and make my own unit tree AND unit list and as soon is im ready to post it after having figured out what was wrong with my computer and uploading, chris comes up with a better version soooo i decided to edit chris' version

i agree with almost all parts of chris' new unit tree (eliminating the near all-powerful eclipse, etc.) except for a few.

Changes w/Comments:

1. I concur w/chris that it would be odd having huge legions of imperial royal guards or magna guards defending cities, so i created a defensive unit line with units that were in common use in addition to the special unit line (dont worry, lots of reused graphics here, not many new graphics needed), I also changed other aspects about certain trooper units, like allowing droidekas their own unit line independent of the battle droids, etc.

2. I removed all clone units from era 1 and placed them (in some way, shape, or form) in era 2, replacing them with republic 'non-clone' units. I would like to see era 1 as the pre-clone wars era (Episode I) for the Republic and CIS-to-be.

3. I made a few minor changes here and there to other unit lines, specifically the Republic light cruiser/shuttle line, so that they make sense.

here it is: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Revised_Unit_Tree.ace

Regarding alien units- id prefer to finish the rest of the main civ units before attempting to complete alien units.

Barbarians- perhaps early could be Tusken Raiders, and advanced could be Coreillein Pirate (mispelling here i know it) and the space could be an unmodified (weaker) YT-1300

if we want to cut the number of units needed to be made, i suggest we look first at the shuttles/light cruisers line- not to say i dont want it in the game, but if we find ourselves short on time i have no problem cutting it or portions of it.

that's pretty much it . . . comments?

 

[odintheking]

We had some talk of making the Death Star a Nuke Sub, but I don't really know. It will definately be used for the scenarios,
@Chris85 - There are things on that list I like, and what I don't like (of course, ). I'll start with the good parts:

1. I like the flagship thing. It adds a nice touch and homes for some of those ships.
2. I like the idea that swoops and STAPs should be in the "scout" line, but maybe perhaps in a later era. I was thinking that we could have the probe droids available with "repulsorlifts" (an era 1 mid-way tech), and the swoops available in era 2/3 with "planetary exploration".
3. That you also took care of the misc. units.

Well, now for "Constructive" criticism

1. I think that the AT-RT should be back in the mech line, and we could reinstate the Republic Guard. They would be easy, (only a black-tinted Imperial Guard)
2. I kinda liked the fighters and fast-fighters as-is. I don't think we need to change it alot.
3. The mech lines. I don't think we should upgrade animals to mechs.
Also, why does the Empire have the TX-130? I thought only the Republic did. I was thinking that since in the video game Rebel Strike that the Empire has APC's, maybe we could do that. Plus, if we do, we should switch the APC and the TIE Crawler.
4. I don't know about the Sith/Jedi wonder thing. I was kind of hoping to have a massive army of Sith to take down those arrogant Jedi,

Otherwise, I like it.

BTW - I got this crazy idea for the Republic mounted unit; we could cut'n'paste the Jedi Knight on top of a PTW Triceratops so it could be like Obi-Wan in Episode 3 on that Boga! Or we could have a clone on one of these: http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/feluciagroundbeetle/index.html

 

[Darth Bob]

I was looking at the unit list above and a thought came to my head. Some of the Republican units such as the Juggernaut, AT-TE, and the Venator Star Destroyer should technicaly also be used by the Empire. Because they were used after the Empire replaced the Republic and even up to and beyond the Galactic Civil War. But if no one believes me on that just use logic, why would the Empire just through out these vehicles just because they're old? They are just as powerful as some of the newer things. An example of such is the Juggernaut. Even though old it could take on a AT-AT walker. There is also the Venator Star Destroyer which was more powerful than the Victory, yet the Victory was still used late in the Empire. My sources say that the Venator was used up to several decades after the Clone Wars and beyond and in the Empire were used much in the same way as the bigger Imperial class Star Destroyers, such as bombardment and intense ship to ship fighting. Plus it's role as a carrier also gives it the advantage of many fighters and its able to enter planetary atmospheres.

Just keep in mind, my ideas are mine and you dont have to use them. I'm just trying to give a few facts I know about Star Wars. Also there is a really good Star Wars online encyclopedia if anyone wants to check it out. Its really good for ships and stuff. I like it better than the official Star Wars website.
Here it is http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page

 

[starwarscrazy]

@odin- u finished the tech trees? Where is the thread for them, and if there isnt one can u upload them so we can see them- the unit trees need to match up with them.

Responses- (corresponding to odintheking's comments)

1. In my edited version of chris' original tree i think i either moved the AT-RT or eliminitated it . . . if i did one less unit to do (unless u guys REALLY want that AT-RT)

2. I understand what you mean, but if we want to have any hope of completing the mod around (note- around, not before) christmas, we have to cut some things and save them for later . . . while i would prefer to have the fighter lines the same, i feel that (for now) the new ones are acceptable.

3. Ya, we should fix that. Perhaps we should make the heavy mechs non-upgradeable like certain other unit lines (i dont remember exactly which ones check the unit tree). . . that would allow for more realistic battles (e.g. the battle of hoth where there were both AT-ATs and AT-STs)

4. ok . . . . But i think the wonder thing is a good idea- otherwise there really would be no way to allow padawans, apprentices, knights, and masters all in the same era (not one that i can think of anyway)

Regarding a Republic mounted creature unit- either one works, whichever one (giant catipillar or dragon-lizard thing) u guys want to do.

What if we had the death star as a wonder that produces a 'death star' unit every like 20 turns or something, and then a wonder later on called 'intercepted death star plans' that makes the death star wonder obsolete. if it can be done, then
_________________________________________________________________
Yes the empire had leftover juggernauts and venators, but it did not manufacture them anymore, preferring to produce, use, and deploy more advanced walkers (AT-ATs, AT-STs) and ships (Imperial, Executor).

The victory was more powerful than the venator, if only slightly, though never massively used for the republic as the venator was. The victory was only briefly used in massive quantities by the empire, after which the decommissioning of almost all clone wars ships for newer models, began,and the imperial-class replaced the victory- not entirely, but for the purposes of the mod it did.

The biggest reason why i don't want the late republic units to be the early imperial units is because, in the regular game (not scenario) the empire would have weak units that, when the republic has them, suddenly become strong. Whenever possible, I think we should allow each civilization separate units (with a few exceptions- the headhunter is shared by the republic and the rebellion) so if there are better alternatives I prefer to choose them over having civs share units.

 

[Chris85]

You don't need the Death Star? I was planning to make a new one, because the old one was a bit lame, but if no one is gonna use it I won't waste my time with it...

Wait we ARE using the Death Star, that last catagory was just for units that are either used by all civs or just extras units that don't have a place. All civs are going to have the ability to build the Death Star.

Changes w/Comments:

I removed all clone units from era 1 and placed them (in some way, shape, or form) in era 2, replacing them with republic 'non-clone' units. I would like to see era 1 as the pre-clone wars era (Episode I) for the Republic and CIS-to-be.

Regarding alien units- id prefer to finish the rest of the main civ units before attempting to complete alien units.

Barbarians- perhaps early could be Tusken Raiders, and advanced could be Coreillein Pirate (mispelling here i know it) and the space could be an unmodified (weaker) YT-1300

if we want to cut the number of units needed to be made, i suggest we look first at the shuttles/light cruisers line- not to say i dont want it in the game, but if we find ourselves short on time i have no problem cutting it or portions of it.

that's pretty much it . . . comments?

1. Ok I'll remove the Clone Recruit from Era 1. I suggest we should go with the Naboo Trooper for that spot.

2. Maybe we should only go with the Alien Resource units for scenarios?

3. For Barbarians, how about we use the Tusken Raider, some kind of Smuggler or Pirate unit, and the Z-95 Headhunter since they were used by pirates as well. Someone suggested a while back about using an "ugly" ship like an X-TIE for the barbarian space unit, like scrapping two ships together since they didn't have the resources to build there own.

4. I haven't looked at your changes to the unit lines yet, but I'll try to slim the Shuttle/Light Cruiser line.

1. I like the idea that swoops and STAPs should be in the "scout" line, but maybe perhaps in a later era. I was thinking that we could have the probe droids available with "repulsorlifts" (an era 1 mid-way tech), and the swoops available in era 2/3 with "planetary exploration".

2. I think that the AT-RT should be back in the mech line, and we could reinstate the Republic Guard. They would be easy, (only a black-tinted Imperial Guard)

3. The mech lines. I don't think we should upgrade animals to mechs. Also, why does the Empire have the TX-130? I thought only the Republic did. I was thinking that since in the video game Rebel Strike that the Empire has APC's, maybe we could do that. Plus, if we do, we should switch the APC and the TIE Crawler.

4. I don't know about the Sith/Jedi wonder thing. I was kind of hoping to have a massive army of Sith to take down those arrogant Jedi,

1. I originally wanted Speeder Bikes and STAPs for Era 2, but I also wanted 2 mech type units for each era so I stuck them in Era 1. Now I'll move them back to the 2nd Era.

2. AT-RTs are far to weak compared to the other units in the back of the mech line.

3. The Empire actually did use TX-130s early on, and I couldn't come up with a comparable unit for that era. We could do something else with the mounted units.

4. You don't think it would seem weird building an entire army of just Jedi/Sith? Keep in mind that they're going to be stronger than your typical unit.

I was looking at the unit list above and a thought came to my head. Some of the Republican units such as the Juggernaut, AT-TE, and the Venator Star Destroyer should technicaly also be used by the Empire. Because they were used after the Empire replaced the Republic and even up to and beyond the Galactic Civil War. But if no one believes me on that just use logic, why would the Empire just through out these vehicles just because they're old? They are just as powerful as some of the newer things. An example of such is the Juggernaut. Even though old it could take on a AT-AT walker. There is also the Venator Star Destroyer which was more powerful than the Victory, yet the Victory was still used late in the Empire. My sources say that the Venator was used up to several decades after the Clone Wars and beyond and in the Empire were used much in the same way as the bigger Imperial class Star Destroyers, such as bombardment and intense ship to ship fighting. Plus it's role as a carrier also gives it the advantage of many fighters and its able to enter planetary atmospheres.

Good point, but there isn't exactly a whole lot of room to place those new units into the unit tree for the Empire. On top of that it would upset the balance, because the Empire would have more units available. A unit would be weaker for the Imperials while the same unit would be a stronger unit for the Republic.

1. In my edited version of chris' original tree i think i either moved the AT-RT or eliminitated it . . . if i did one less unit to do (unless u guys REALLY want that AT-RT)

2. Ya, we should fix that. Perhaps we should make the heavy mechs non-upgradeable like certain other unit lines (i dont remember exactly which ones check the unit tree). . . that would allow for more realistic battles (e.g. the battle of hoth where there were both AT-ATs and AT-STs)

What if we had the death star as a wonder that produces a 'death star' unit every like 20 turns or something, and then a wonder later on called 'intercepted death star plans' that makes the death star wonder obsolete. if it can be done, then

1. I guess we could get rid of the AT-RT if we don't need it.

2. That is what I'm trying to accomplish by splitting the mech lines into Standard Mech and Heavy Mech.

3. The Death Star idea might work.

Damn! That was a long post.

 

[odintheking]

@SWC - sorry, I was replying to Chris's unit line. Your ace file doesn't work,
@Chris85 - Do you think the APC would be a good alternative to the TX-130 for the Empire?
@DarthBob - Thanks for showing intrest in the mod, it's always nice to see a new face, . The thing about the Empire using Republic era units is not that it's not accurate, it's the fact that it would be nice to have seperate units just because seeing too many of the same unit for each side would be kind of boring. Plus, the Empire has like a million walkers anyway, so it's not like they both need to share, .

 

[Darth Bob]

That is a very good point. It would get kind of boring with too many of the same units and you're absolutely right, the Empire does have a lot of walkers anyway!

 

[Darth Bob]

But on the topic of units the I think that the Juggernaut should be as powerful as the AT-AT. But if it is not as powerful it should at least have the same defensive value but at slightly lower cost. But I researched and its main battery of lasers are just as powerful as an AT-AT's, but their range is two thirds of an AT-AT. But if anything else the Juggernaut is definately faster.

And what would be the differences in fighting ability among the Star Destroyers? I hear people say that the Victory is more powerful than the Venator, yet it has been proven that the Venators main battery are only a little weaker than the Imperial's main battery, plus its size and shields would help it, so logically wouldn't a Venator be more powerful than a Victory if an Imperial is so much stonger than a Victory?

P.S. I have done intensive research on these subjects and I base my opinions on fact and common sense, but there are so many contradicting issues and beliefs that its really hard to come to a conclusion, but the ones above are my conclusions. And the keyword is My. Thats just my opinion and if someone doesn't agree, thats fine by me because its really hard to figure this stuff out and there are so many different views and opinions.

Also, If no one as figured this out by now, I really like Juggernauts and Venator Star Destroyers. LOL

 

[SheepMonster]

There is more to a ship than weaponry: hull, shielding, engine power, starfighter squadrons, core, etc.

The venator may have had almost the same amount of guns, but practically no shields.

 

[Darth Bob]

That is a very good point SheepMoster. There definately is way more to a ship than just firepower. But about the shields, I have the Incredible Cross-Sections for Episode 3 and according to it the Venator does have powerful shields. They just aren't in the big towers we see on the Imperial and other types. Plus its hull is also very strong too.

But for engine power, it is considered an extremely fast vessel for its size, while the victory while smaller was incredibly slow in sublight speed, but they are both have incredibly fast hyperdrives.

And as for starfighter squadrens, well, I think the Venators 400+ starfighters says it all.

But don't get me wrong though, you have an incredibly good point which must be taken into consideration whenever comparing ships.

 

[Darth Bob]

But when comparing a Venator to a Imperial, the Imperial always wins in ship to ship and bombardment, but the Venator wins in speed and starfighters. It would probably take about 2-3 Venators to destroy one Imperial, but this statistic does not include starfighers. Plus the Venator is able to go inside a planets atmosphere, but it doesn't carry as many troops as a Imperial.

Plus in crew size the Imperial has over 35,000, while the Venator has a crew of 7,400 and the Victory a crew of about 5,200.

These statistics should be used for unit values but not for how much the unit costs because the Empire should be able to build Imperials in large numbers in the modpack.

And once again, if someone doesn't agree with me, you don't have to use it. And from what I've heard from everyone, I know that you all know a lot about Star Wars too, so your opinion is also very valid and I believe needs to be expressed.

 

[Chris85]

That is a very good point SheepMoster. There definately is way more to a ship than just firepower. But about the shields, I have the Incredible Cross-Sections for Episode 3 and according to it the Venator does have powerful shields. They just aren't in the big towers we see on the Imperial and other types. Plus its hull is also very strong too.

But for engine power, it is considered an extremely fast vessel for its size, while the victory while smaller was incredibly slow in sublight speed, but they are both have incredibly fast hyperdrives.

And as for starfighter squadrens, well, I think the Venators 400+ starfighters says it all.

But don't get me wrong though, you have an incredibly good point which must be taken into consideration whenever

I have that incredible cross-sections book too.

I agree the Victory which preceded the Venator didn't have the size, firepower, speed, or capacity the Venator had. Being smaller with a little less firepower, the Venator is definately weaker than an Imperial-class. The Venator's biggest weakness when compared to the Imperial-class is the fact that when the hangar doors open it left the Venator more vulnerable to attack. Venators appear to be fitted more like starfighter carriers as oppossed to the Imperial-class which is more like a troop carrier. I pretty much just reiterated Darth Bob's points.