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Storm Over Europe (SOE)

I merely posted about that as an explanation that could have taken place and for others to know about... Not that you had anything to do with it :)

But I had to do a lot with those switches in the last old biq, as I made them (because I was not aware of that problem) :) - and I don´t repeat this with the current biq and the adjusted unit stats. I don´t stop learning every day. :D
 
I don´t stop learning every day.

Same here... there is a Plethora of things regarding Modding the CIV Game that no one knew from the beginning that we now know.
... and most of the understanding and perhaps especially the most important things to understand come to us at the end of many years :scan:
 
Thank you Belofon and Civinator for your answers. I will try this trick to avoid the bug.

I have another question. Is there a limit to the number of strategic resources that can be added to a scenario in the editor? I don't have my home computer in front of me atm otherwise I would check for myself but if I remember correctly I can add as many resources as I want, no?
 
Thank you Belofon and Civinator for your answers. I will try this trick to avoid the bug.

Very welcome Moff.

I have another question. Is there a limit to the number of strategic resources that can be added to a scenario in the editor? I don't have my home computer in front of me atm otherwise I would check for myself but if I remember correctly I can add as many resources as I want, no?

Unfortunately there is a limit of maximal 256 resource types (strat./lux./bonus all together). And additionally you have to be careful not to run into the ghost resources bug (32 strat./lux.resources maximal, if placed properly).
 
Very welcome Moff.

Unfortunately there is a limit of maximal 256 resource types (strat./lux./bonus all together). And additionally you have to be careful not to run into the ghost resources bug (32 strat./lux.resources maximal, if placed properly).

Ah, I see. Ok I will be careful.
 
Hey @Civinator you mentioned something which just blew my mind. If you set mountains to impassable, then there is no way to clean up pollution should it fall on a mountain. I had never before considered this and now I'm wondering if there is a way to keep mountains as impassable but also either not have pollution fall on mountains (via city or fallout), or at least somehow clean it up. How does the game keep pollution from falling on coast/sea/ocean? Perhaps there is a way to set it up so mountains do the same? I honestly don't recall ever seeing pollution on mountains before, but it's been a while since I played late game.
 
Nanuk, I explained it in one of the first posts in this thread:

Pollution: Pollution in SOE is eliminated as far as it is possible. Production pollution is minimized as every building in SOE has the flags to minimize every kind of pollution. Population pollution is minimized by not allowing size 3 cities. So there is only fallout-pollution left, which can´t be cleaned up on mountains. But this kind of pollution in SOE is only possible lately in the game, when nukes are available and the pollution effects are set in a way that changes of the terrain are not possible.

This is more than sufficient for SOE. Not included above are volcanoes, because the SOE map doesn´t hold volcanoes. The question what stops pollution from appearing in water terrain would be a question for Flintlock (or Quintillus), but I think both are involved in clearing more important questions yet (p.e. the AI routine for artillery).
 
Unfortunately in the last days there was not much progress with SOE due to RL issues. But I think here is something, that could interest you:

CarrierRun.gif


HeavyAttack.gif


BCAttack.gif


CLAttack.gif
 
There was longer time no post about the next version of SOE, due to the cornucopia of new settings in C3C scenarios, that are possible now with the Flintlock patch - but SOE is not forgotten. All the new things need a lot of testing and unfortunately my time for modding Civ 3 is still limited.

Here are some screenshots from the new settings of the supply shipping from Canada to Britain in the next version of the WW2 scenario SOE, that I revealed today in the Flintlock patch thread. The battle in the Atlantic will become much more severe.

Convoy path uncovered:



Land-sea-intersections covered:



In that context: A belated happy birthday to Wyrmshadow, who did most of the wonderful units of SOE. :bday:
 
In the Flintlock Patch thread I gave some explanations how the "volcano path" is working. I will also post it here, as it belongs massively to SOE, too:

Nearly 10 years ago I explained how the massive "amphibious" invasions are working in SOE: In reality they are not "amphibious", but are using small landbridges: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/storm-over-europe-soe.454785/page-11#post-16012557

These landbridges are covered by ruin graphics, as these big graphics can hide the land terrain under those graphics. For its use, the terrain, that should be covered, must allow cities, but no other terrain improvements, that would trigger away the ruin graphics. In the SOE scenario there are no settlers and therefore no new cities can be founded "in the water", destroying the ruin graphics. There is no river terrain used. For the screenshots I used the old SOE ruin graphics covering coastal terrain, now graphics covering seaterrain would look a little bit better.

Along the "volcano path" land units can be moved, across the "edges" between the volcano terrain rhombes, sea units can cross the "volcanoe path" (in the same manner the Panama- and the Suez Canal are working). I used volcanoes for that path, as it is a WW2 scenario and there is an additional danger by mines and abstract submarine attacks for the land units on that path (the graphics for volcanoe eruptions can be changed to other graphics).

The part I like the most about the new land connections between America, Africa and Europe is the following:

America is not on the SOE map. There are only a few cities with transparent city graphics, containing special strategic resources, symbolizing the convoys from Canada and the US during WW2.





This allows using different ship graphics for land units that are produced in those "convoy cities". Per example a "transported" Sherman tank can use other freighter graphics than a shipped Grant tank. These ship graphics are "fitting", as all movement is looking to be "on water" (so in reality it is on land).

These transported "convoy" units only have very weak unit stats and can be easily destroyed by Axis naval units with lethal land bombardment (what even German submarines will have - but cannot use in most other situations) if these attacking units achieve to come close to the "volcano path". If such a transported land unit is destroyed, a ship is sinking. SOE uses a special "programmed" map with many zones of different and partly unique combinations of resources, I have named "microzones" many years ago. One such microzone per example is the city of Glasgow. Here the AI (and the human player) can upgrade their transported units with ship graphics to the correct land unit graphics with the adequate stats (p.e. in Glasgow the freighter symbolizing the transported Sexton from Canada becomes the real Sexton that cannot use the "volcanoe path" any longer. This graphical setting can only work for landunits that can only move in one direction (here from Canada to Britain). It will not work for Axis units. Per example if an Axis player really wants to conquer the city "Convoys from Canada", this can be done, but the graphics while moving along the "volcano trial" will always be the normal graphics and stats of those landunits (it would be crazy trying to conquer Russia with freighters in this scenario).

These settings still need some testing, especially I have to look if the pollution by the volcanoes will destroy the ruin graphics. In that case I have to use a different terrain for the "volcano path".
 
The ruin graphics were not destroyed by the volcano pollution graphics. The land- / sea intersection tiles are flanked by deepwater harbor tiles set with the Quintillus editor, so even ships which are not allowed to pass coastal terrain (forbidden for units with the wheeled flag) - especially German submarines - can perform bombard attack on these landunits, that are looking like ships.
 
Is this available for testing? I have a bit of time on the train soon and would love to give it a shot.
 
Alekseyev_, thank you very much for your interest in SOE. :) Most parts of SOE were massively tested since several years and many civers, including me, consider it the best WW2 European theater scenario of the complete Civ series. The work on the next version of SOE was on halt due to the progress in Flintlock´s work and the fantastic additional options that are created by him in playing C3C. In my eyes it is out of question that the new options of artificial resources and buildings as prerequisites for units, that are now available since some days, should be crucial for every WW2 scenario. I didn´t want to create a new version of this scenario that becomes outdated even before its release and to rewrite big parts of the civilopedia again and again.

Now, as these both key options, that I asked Flintlock to create some time ago, are available, the work on the next version of CCM, RARR, SOE, WW2 Global Gold are continued, the same with the work on a a very big project that I haven´t yet posted about and an error-free version of AOI if El Justo agrees to it. All these projects will be played with the base of CCM 2.6, therefore making the individual scenario downloads slim (as it can be seen in the current RARR scenario) because big parts of these scenarios must not be posted three or more times at CFC.

Therefore sorry, at present the next version of SOE is not yet available for testing and the old version had a lot of testing, mostly on the former SOC site, but there are also plenty reports here in this thread at CFC.
 
And if not for testing, would you let me take a look for personal enjoyment? :D I am curious how it plays out as it is right now , before it will be replaced by a newer version later.
 
And if not for testing, would you let me take a look for personal enjoyment? :D I am curious how it plays out as it is right now , before it will be replaced by a newer version later.
IIRC there was 1.3 version of this map somewhere in thread - or, if there isn't anymore, I had it downloaded and can post it here unless Civinator is against it.
Unfortunately either way art and text files aren't available and in order to play scenario normally you'll have to create them from the scratch yourself.

And, by the way, some thoughts regarding last available version and possible changes:
  1. Change stats and production costs for some units so losing certain resources wouldn't lead to replacement of units by just the same but cheeper (of those I remember - Polish and French ACs and APCs);
  2. I think it's fair to give Memel to Germany since IRL they already had it by the start of the war;
  3. I would also propose to change impassible German-Soviet border in Poland so that Soviet side of it would actually include cities that ended up in the USSR (Wilna, Grodna, Byalistok, Chelm, Lwow - all of these are currently in German half of Poland). To continue this, it may be also good to alter Axis borders (first of all - Hungarian-Romanian) that would otherwise be almost impossible to change in-game;
  4. As a side effect of point 2, may be it's actually better to move Baltics from neutrals to Axis. Since Germany would already had Memel, there is hardly any point for them to get involved in war with Baltics and stealing their territory from Soviets. This would also prevent ahistorical and senseless Baltic-Finnish skirmishes (and replace them with a bit more historical Baltic-Polish) - not to mention that following the invasion of USSR remaining Baltic partisans have mostly sided with Germans;
  5. And finally I would second people somewhere earlier in the thread who proposed more correct city names (like renaming some Bulgarian cities or giving some Soviet cities their Stalin-era names).
 
And if not for testing, would you let me take a look for personal enjoyment? :D I am curious how it plays out as it is right now , before it will be replaced by a newer version later.
Alekseyev_, in this thread the reports of Anthony Boscia about his games with Germany and Russia still have most of their images and are a good read how SOE "played out" with the old version of SOE. The "special" methods used by him in both games of course are no longer possible in the next version of SOE.
 
IIRC there was 1.3 version of this map somewhere in thread - or, if there isn't anymore, I had it downloaded and can post it here unless Civinator is against it.
Unfortunately either way art and text files aren't available and in order to play scenario normally you'll have to create them from the scratch yourself.
Sorry, but I am against it. Such uploads later only create confusion, not necessary questions to answer and trigger other civers to post the still "missing files", too. Belofon thank you very much for your input and in the following I try to answer to it point for point, but I am not yet familiar how to handle the new site tools to achieve a proper result.
  1. Change stats and production costs for some units so losing certain resources wouldn't lead to replacement of units by just the same but cheeper (of those I remember - Polish and French ACs and APCs)

Most of those units had the difference between immobile and mobile units. The immobile units at the start of the game should have the same costs and cannot be produced normally in the game. Losing certain resources (per example oil) is handled different with the new options created by Flintlock.

I think it's fair to give Memel to Germany since IRL they already had it by the start of the war ... as a side effect of point 2, may be it's actually better to move Baltics from neutrals to Axis. Since Germany would already had Memel, there is hardly any point for them to get involved in war with Baltics and stealing their territory from Soviets.

In most WW2 scenarios starting in 1939, the AI performance for Russia and US to enter war is frequently disappointing (per example the WW2 Global thread is full of such experiences). Even using the submarine bug as a war trigger for both civs in my eyes is no proper solution, as the AI civs after some turns of war tend to make peace again (so here the AI is more intelligent than their human counterparts in real history :)).

In SOE, Germany and Russia are at war from the start of the game, but the big confrontation should be delayed, as in real history the big clash came only in 1941. Here several settings are used to achieve this (per example short ranged aircraft for Russia, terrain that can not be crossed by starting units and some other features, too). Germany can not operate with such limitations of air units at the start, as at the western front aircraft with full range and rebasing option are needed quickly. If Memel would be part of Germany (as it was in history) German aircraft would try to attack Russian cities much too early in the game and in the result there is the danger, that the focus of the early game changes to the east instead of the west. The complete current balancing of the scenario with the short ranged Russian aircraft (that can be upgraded with no costs to their full range in 1941) would be endangered.

The Baltic states are neutral to delay the confrontation between Germany and Russia in this scenario.

I would also propose to change impassible German-Soviet border in Poland so that Soviet side of it would actually include cities that ended up in the USSR (Wilna, Grodna, Byalistok, Chelm, Lwow - all of these are currently in German half of Poland).
The border terrain in SOE is mostly placed in accordance to the German–Soviet Frontier Treaty, but there are some exceptions taking the specialities of the map and to delay the big confrontation between both civs into account:

For the performance of this scenario in my eyes it is better that Lwow is in German influence, as from this city no important Russian cities can be endangered by aircraft, but in Russian hands, this would trigger the German AI to bombard that city and not to change the focus of that scenario to the west as it is intended for that time. Historically that city was completely encircled by German units of the 1. Geb.Div. Not so well-known is, that the Polish commander of that city, General Langner, on 21st September, noon, offered the surrender of that city to that German Division ( Alex Buchner, Der Polenfeldzug 1939, pg. 144). In accordance to the German–Soviet Frontier Treaty the official surrender followed some days later to Russia.

The same is the situation for Byalistok. In history according to the Wikipedia this city was captured by troops of the 3rd German Army at 12th September 1939 and later handed to Russia, fullfilling the German–Soviet Frontier Treaty. For the balance of SOE it is better if this city stays in German hands, so Russia has a change of a delayed capturing of that city by conquering the Baltic States.

For Chelm, as far as I know, the situation was different. It was captured by Russia and later handed to Germany in the revision of the German–Soviet Frontier Treaty. Here in my eyes it is better for the scenario if it stays in Russian hands (at least this is the current setting of SOE). The reason is the same: All that helps to avoid a big conflict between Russia and Germany in the first turns of SOE is good for this scenario.

To continue this, it may be also good to alter Axis borders (first of all - Hungarian-Romanian) that would otherwise be almost impossible to change in-game

What changes at the Axis borders are you suggesting here ? Hungary and Romania in this scenario are mostly traffic jams for Germany. They are mostly in that scenario as individual civs, because jorde long ago made some nice leaderheads for them.

And finally I would second people somewhere earlier in the thread who proposed more correct city names (like renaming some Bulgarian cities or giving some Soviet cities their Stalin-era names
In my notes there was a post suggesting for Bulgaria the following: Stara Zagora and Pleven are not geographically accurate. Stara Zagora is where Pleven should be (even better place Veliko Tarnovo at its place, as it was a more important town during the war), and rename Pleven to Vidin.

These changes were made in the current SOE biq:
Bulgaria.jpg


Please tell me, what Russian cities in SOE have wrong names.

And there is something important to add: The current situation in Europe makes me really sad and is not suited to enhance my motivation about finishing that scenario quickly.
 
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