Storm Over Europe (SOE)
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King Bulrush
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2020
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Good Day!
I wish to write the below post as an open letter of sorts to the author of this great scenario, Civinator.
First of all, thank you for providing this scenario in the first place. I remember playing it many years ago and having a great time with it, so I can only praise all the work that went into it. Recently I returned to playing Civ 3 after a long hiatus and one of the resons was the desire to experience this scenario once again, but to my disappointment I realised that I no longer have it on my computer and that it has not been available for download either for the past years.
I too eagerly await your release of the new version of this scenario. I am sure it will be great. From my experience, the old version was allready fine enough. My only issue with it was that it got boring after a while, when I had beaten all opponents and there was only mopping up to do, but during the first turns I had a blast playing it.
Therefore I have decided to try my luck and ask if it would be possible for you (or, with your permission, for anyone else who might have retained the scenario files) to re-upload the old, original (but from my recollection, perfectly playble) version of the scenario. Now, I understand, from reading the previous page of this thread, that you have been getting this kind of requests for the past 6 years or so, and I imagine that you might be justifiably annoyed by them allready. I just wanted to see if the recent exceptional circumstances might have made you change your mind - since nowdays there are a lot of people with more spare time than usual due to the recent quarantine and lockdowns, and having one of the greatest Civ 3 scenarios ever created available for playing would certainly help pass the time. I think we can all agree that otherwise this epidemic has been quite boring - what with there being no zombies and all that.*
* I realise that what I have written above might come across as a bit insensitive towards those people who are genuinely having a difficult time these days. Since I am a newly registered member here I can only hope that I am not coming across as a troll. But then we are all gamers here so hopefully you will understand.
Best regards!
I wish to write the below post as an open letter of sorts to the author of this great scenario, Civinator.
First of all, thank you for providing this scenario in the first place. I remember playing it many years ago and having a great time with it, so I can only praise all the work that went into it. Recently I returned to playing Civ 3 after a long hiatus and one of the resons was the desire to experience this scenario once again, but to my disappointment I realised that I no longer have it on my computer and that it has not been available for download either for the past years.
I too eagerly await your release of the new version of this scenario. I am sure it will be great. From my experience, the old version was allready fine enough. My only issue with it was that it got boring after a while, when I had beaten all opponents and there was only mopping up to do, but during the first turns I had a blast playing it.
Therefore I have decided to try my luck and ask if it would be possible for you (or, with your permission, for anyone else who might have retained the scenario files) to re-upload the old, original (but from my recollection, perfectly playble) version of the scenario. Now, I understand, from reading the previous page of this thread, that you have been getting this kind of requests for the past 6 years or so, and I imagine that you might be justifiably annoyed by them allready. I just wanted to see if the recent exceptional circumstances might have made you change your mind - since nowdays there are a lot of people with more spare time than usual due to the recent quarantine and lockdowns, and having one of the greatest Civ 3 scenarios ever created available for playing would certainly help pass the time. I think we can all agree that otherwise this epidemic has been quite boring - what with there being no zombies and all that.*
* I realise that what I have written above might come across as a bit insensitive towards those people who are genuinely having a difficult time these days. Since I am a newly registered member here I can only hope that I am not coming across as a troll. But then we are all gamers here so hopefully you will understand.
Best regards!
- Joined
- May 5, 2005
- Messages
- 8,884
Good Day King Bulrush ! The greeting 'good day' reminds me of the Australian civer Simon Darkshade, who also contributed a lot to SOE (but is some years older than you).
I am aware of the 'recent exceptional circumstances' and I am trying to contribute my part to help in this situation: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/rise-and-rule-revisited-epic-mod.549166/page-42#post-15710918 The greatly enhanced current version of RARR (a successor of the very prominent DyP and RAR Civ 3 mods) became ready in record time, investing all my free time for finishing this mod. Fixed biqs of this mod for reported errors will come in the next days.
About the SOE requests for the past 6 years, please consider the following:
About ten years ago I suggested and invited the Civ 3 modders at CFC to work on a common epic mod to include all the important historic modding work concerning Civ 3. As there was shown no interest and additionally at that time at CFC in favour of another project, some other measures were done against me, that I cannot describe here without violating against the forum rules, I had to start (and mostly do) this project called CCM (Civ Conquest Mod) alone and not at CFC (so in the later stages I received help). Your example with the lost SOE files and additionally the loss of data at CFC and the closing of hosting sites like Atomic Gamer and SOC are showing, that my decision to do a mod like CCM2 was the right one. The survival of one version of CCM2 with its more than 3.000 units allows to restore big parts of the modding work of Civ 3.
Therefore the mod CCM2 in that time had the highest priority in my modding work, followed by the mod RARR, that now also is using the CCM2 files. The next in sequence is WW2 Global Gold, that also will be played with the CCM2 files. Additionally there are also requests about fixing errors in AOI, the most viewed and played Civ 3 scenario.
SOE - so I had invested immense amounts of time (like others, too) to make it playable - is at the end of this sequence. The reason for this is not the playability of this scenario. In my eyes SOE is still by far the best WW2 scenario of the complete Civ series. The reason is, that some important circumstances have changed. SOE was created by an international team on an own server with the main purpose to host this scenario. The scenario SOE (Storm Over Europe) gave that server its name and became the SOC site (Storm over Civilization). With the closing of the SOC site, SOE became no longer available. The SOE team is not existing any longer and the problem is I´m a German and the SOE leaderhead and advisor images about Hitler could interfere with German law. In Germany normal portrait images of Hitler are not allowed and it is discussed if there should be an exception for videogames without an ideological background. I hoped that this question could be cleared in the last years, but, as far as I know, this did not happen. The leader images could be replaced by flags, in the German case by a neutral iron cross flag, but this would make Jorde´s great work with many leaderheads of European statesmen of that time (Swizz, Turkish, Irish and so on) obsolete. One solution could be a darkened Hitler leaderhead and advisor graphics as they are used in the German version of HOI.
All these works need time -and this time at present must be used otherwise. I cannot give the scenario 'in other hands' as this holds the danger, that there Nazi-Stuff will be added -what I really don´t want -, especially some completly tasteless buildings, that in my eyes have nothing to do in a game.
These are the reasons why I don´t want any other upload of this scenario and why an unauthorized download link of SOE in this thread had to be deleted.
I have to do the changes myself and SOE will reappear, but this will not happen in the next months.
So King Bulrush unfortunately you have to wait for SOE still longer, even in these present bad times. But what is about playing CCM2 or RARR in that time ?
Best regards
Civinator
I am aware of the 'recent exceptional circumstances' and I am trying to contribute my part to help in this situation: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/rise-and-rule-revisited-epic-mod.549166/page-42#post-15710918 The greatly enhanced current version of RARR (a successor of the very prominent DyP and RAR Civ 3 mods) became ready in record time, investing all my free time for finishing this mod. Fixed biqs of this mod for reported errors will come in the next days.
About the SOE requests for the past 6 years, please consider the following:
About ten years ago I suggested and invited the Civ 3 modders at CFC to work on a common epic mod to include all the important historic modding work concerning Civ 3. As there was shown no interest and additionally at that time at CFC in favour of another project, some other measures were done against me, that I cannot describe here without violating against the forum rules, I had to start (and mostly do) this project called CCM (Civ Conquest Mod) alone and not at CFC (so in the later stages I received help). Your example with the lost SOE files and additionally the loss of data at CFC and the closing of hosting sites like Atomic Gamer and SOC are showing, that my decision to do a mod like CCM2 was the right one. The survival of one version of CCM2 with its more than 3.000 units allows to restore big parts of the modding work of Civ 3.
Therefore the mod CCM2 in that time had the highest priority in my modding work, followed by the mod RARR, that now also is using the CCM2 files. The next in sequence is WW2 Global Gold, that also will be played with the CCM2 files. Additionally there are also requests about fixing errors in AOI, the most viewed and played Civ 3 scenario.
SOE - so I had invested immense amounts of time (like others, too) to make it playable - is at the end of this sequence. The reason for this is not the playability of this scenario. In my eyes SOE is still by far the best WW2 scenario of the complete Civ series. The reason is, that some important circumstances have changed. SOE was created by an international team on an own server with the main purpose to host this scenario. The scenario SOE (Storm Over Europe) gave that server its name and became the SOC site (Storm over Civilization). With the closing of the SOC site, SOE became no longer available. The SOE team is not existing any longer and the problem is I´m a German and the SOE leaderhead and advisor images about Hitler could interfere with German law. In Germany normal portrait images of Hitler are not allowed and it is discussed if there should be an exception for videogames without an ideological background. I hoped that this question could be cleared in the last years, but, as far as I know, this did not happen. The leader images could be replaced by flags, in the German case by a neutral iron cross flag, but this would make Jorde´s great work with many leaderheads of European statesmen of that time (Swizz, Turkish, Irish and so on) obsolete. One solution could be a darkened Hitler leaderhead and advisor graphics as they are used in the German version of HOI.
All these works need time -and this time at present must be used otherwise. I cannot give the scenario 'in other hands' as this holds the danger, that there Nazi-Stuff will be added -what I really don´t want -, especially some completly tasteless buildings, that in my eyes have nothing to do in a game.
These are the reasons why I don´t want any other upload of this scenario and why an unauthorized download link of SOE in this thread had to be deleted.
I have to do the changes myself and SOE will reappear, but this will not happen in the next months.
So King Bulrush unfortunately you have to wait for SOE still longer, even in these present bad times. But what is about playing CCM2 or RARR in that time ?
Best regards
Civinator
King Bulrush
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2020
- Messages
- 141
Hi Civinator! Thank you for taking the time to reply to my question. Now I understand better the situation with this scenario. I am sorry to hear about your past troubles and hope that you will find a solution soon so that all the work you put into SOE does not go to waste. I will definitely try and check out your other work as it too looks impressive.
By the way: at the risk of going off topic, I am looking now at the forum threads about CCM2 and RARR and it looks like they are both total conversions for the epic game. So what is the difference between them? (As far as I can figure it out from your initial descriptions and screenshots, CCM2 seems to have overal more "stuff" added - like units, options, new features, etc... Would it be correct to say that CCM2 is the more developped/more elaborate mod?)
Thanks again and best regards!
By the way: at the risk of going off topic, I am looking now at the forum threads about CCM2 and RARR and it looks like they are both total conversions for the epic game. So what is the difference between them? (As far as I can figure it out from your initial descriptions and screenshots, CCM2 seems to have overal more "stuff" added - like units, options, new features, etc... Would it be correct to say that CCM2 is the more developped/more elaborate mod?)
Thanks again and best regards!
- Joined
- May 5, 2005
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- 8,884
King Bulrush, in the introduction page of CCM2.50 I listed 27 points of improved gameplay in CCM2. You can find it here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ccm2-epic-mod.625812 The new concepts are also documented in the CCM2 civilopedia.
Especially the concept of advanced autoproduction in my eyes was one of the best Civ 3 modding ideas I ever had (and now is copied in some other epic Civ 3 mods). It will defenitely be used in the next version of SOE, too. This concept per example allows to have in the game besides some 'normal' tanks also some heavy tanks that cannot be produced normally. For fans of WW2 stuff this mod offers much more than other Civ 3 epic mods. You should have a look at the screenshots of the techtrees of this mod, especially in era 3 and era 4, to recognize what a cornucopia of units this mod is holding.
In this post I tried to explain the difference between CCM2 and RARR and why I like both different ways to play Civ 3: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/rise-and-rule-revisited-epic-mod.549166/page-34#post-15344971
Especially the concept of advanced autoproduction in my eyes was one of the best Civ 3 modding ideas I ever had (and now is copied in some other epic Civ 3 mods). It will defenitely be used in the next version of SOE, too. This concept per example allows to have in the game besides some 'normal' tanks also some heavy tanks that cannot be produced normally. For fans of WW2 stuff this mod offers much more than other Civ 3 epic mods. You should have a look at the screenshots of the techtrees of this mod, especially in era 3 and era 4, to recognize what a cornucopia of units this mod is holding.
In this post I tried to explain the difference between CCM2 and RARR and why I like both different ways to play Civ 3: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/rise-and-rule-revisited-epic-mod.549166/page-34#post-15344971
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Since some weeks the work for the next version of SOE has started again. It is too early to speak about some of the new features in SOE, but I can post some screenshots showing some of the many new ship units in the next version of SOE.
New British destroyers of the E and F class, a light cruiser of the C class and a light cruiser of the City class:
British destroyers of the I Class near Crete:
The newly created Norwegian coastal defense ships placed on the map and the spelling of the Weserübung replaced by the alternative German spelling 'ue' for the letter 'ü':
Imperator1961´s German artillery near Hamburg shrinked masterly by Wotan49:
Imperator1961´s horse drawn German artillery near Hamburg:
New British destroyers of the E and F class, a light cruiser of the C class and a light cruiser of the City class:
British destroyers of the I Class near Crete:
The newly created Norwegian coastal defense ships placed on the map and the spelling of the Weserübung replaced by the alternative German spelling 'ue' for the letter 'ü':
Imperator1961´s German artillery near Hamburg shrinked masterly by Wotan49:
Imperator1961´s horse drawn German artillery near Hamburg:
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Since some weeks the work for the next version of SOE has started again. It is too early to speak about some of the new features in SOE, but I can post some screenshots showing some of the many new ship units in the next version of SOE.
New British destroyers of the E and F class, a light cruiser of the C class and a light cruiser of the City class:
British destroyers of the I Class near Crete:
The newly created Norwegian coastal defense ships placed on the map and the spelling of the Weserübung replaced by the alternative German spelling 'ue' for the letter 'ü':
Imperator1961´s German artillery near Hamburg shrinked masterly by Wotan49:
Imperator1961´s horse drawn German artillery near Hamburg:
Nice!
This is amazing. Glad to hear this scenario is moving forward!! I never had the opportunity to play this before it was removed so I'm really looking forward to this coming out again. I've been reading through the original posts and there are definitely some very innovative mechanics being used. I really like the railroad=road concepts and limiting where they can be built with LM terrain to create similar realism to history. Standard railroads are just super OP and I've been trying to figure out a way to change that. We'll see if I can figure out the best way to implement this, or a similar concept in my scenario. Thanks for the inspiration!
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The system of rails (=roads) is broken by tiles that cannot bear roads, but have resources placed on them looking like rails to create plenty of micro-zones with special production conditions for some units by unique combinations of resources inside these microzones. Additionally this concept holds a simple kind of supply system, as units on LM terrain (shown by yellow diamonds in the editor sight) are 'out of supply' and can not heal on those tiles.
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Thats excellent. I like how all of these great concepts tie in together. With regards to not being able to heal on the LM spaces, how does that work exactly? The answer might be staring me right in the face thoughThe system of rails (=roads) is broken by tiles that cannot bear roads, but have resources placed on them looking like rails to create plenty of micro-zones with special production conditions for some units by unique combinations of resources inside these microzones. Additionally this concept holds a simple kind of supply system, as units on LM terrain (shown by yellow diamonds in the editor sight) are 'out of supply' and can not heal on those tiles.
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Following! 
AnthonyBoscia
Emperor
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Blue, this is excellent news! You can count me among the many here who eagerly await the return of this classic scenario as well as the new updates. I am sure you are also looking forward to further integrating all your mods so that they can share graphics and eventually become a Civinator Gold Edition bundle. I am looking forward not only to graphics and gameplay options but also the updated civilopedia which should be a fun component for history buffs.
I am wondering why the umlaut had to be removed from Unternehmen Weserübung? I remember that some international versions of civ 3 had difficulty using letters and accent marks from different languages and perhaps this was the reason.
The idea of supply lines is a clever explanation for the working of landmark terrain. As an aside for those who may not have seen it in action, the computer will attempt to fortify its units on LM terrain to heal, but will be stuck in a time loop as the unit will never regain its hit points on such terrain. I can't remember but I think if an exposed enemy unit ends its turn close by, this can shake the fortified unit out of its torpor and motivate it to attack. Otherwise, this has the tendency to leave units dispersed from the main thrust; perhaps they are guarding the flanks by occupying key terrain.
Looking forward to future updates!
I am wondering why the umlaut had to be removed from Unternehmen Weserübung? I remember that some international versions of civ 3 had difficulty using letters and accent marks from different languages and perhaps this was the reason.
The idea of supply lines is a clever explanation for the working of landmark terrain. As an aside for those who may not have seen it in action, the computer will attempt to fortify its units on LM terrain to heal, but will be stuck in a time loop as the unit will never regain its hit points on such terrain. I can't remember but I think if an exposed enemy unit ends its turn close by, this can shake the fortified unit out of its torpor and motivate it to attack. Otherwise, this has the tendency to leave units dispersed from the main thrust; perhaps they are guarding the flanks by occupying key terrain.
Looking forward to future updates!
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Hi Tony, thank you very much for your input. 
I would never name such a 'bundle' with my nick name, as I have much to much respect for all the work of all the other Civ 3 modders, whose work is in that 'bundle' (including all your beautiful WW2 Infantry units). There is the C3C expansion CCM2.50, and this expansion, so still holding tons of WW2 units, will be updated with masses of additional WW2 units. The update of CCM2.50 in the present planning will be done in two versions: A complete updated CCM2.50 download, where the old entries will be overwritten by the entries in the new download and lot of new entries will be added, and a patch, only holding the updates for civers with a slow internet connection, who still have downloaded the current CCM2.50 files. These files will also allow to play the next version of WW2 Global Gold - and later my own version of WW2 on a world map.
There is still a lot to do. At present I´m experimenting with some kind of military structure in the game, an additional victory option, an improved railroad option and a slightly improved convoy option - but it is too early to post here anything more now.
For the civilopedia, the describing CCM2 entries for many units can be used, but the entries for the game abilities in SOE must be adapted.
There was a report about a problem when playing this scenario in Russia.
May be the new military organization concept here can help a little bit.
Tony, here are screenshots of some of your WW2 infantry units in SOE:
Hungarian, Yugoslawian, Rumanian and Bulgarian Infantry in SOE:
Dutch and Belgian Infantry in SOE:
The Finnish-Russian border (using Dutch infantry for the Finns) with the shrinked dragon teeth units:
I would never name such a 'bundle' with my nick name, as I have much to much respect for all the work of all the other Civ 3 modders, whose work is in that 'bundle' (including all your beautiful WW2 Infantry units). There is the C3C expansion CCM2.50, and this expansion, so still holding tons of WW2 units, will be updated with masses of additional WW2 units. The update of CCM2.50 in the present planning will be done in two versions: A complete updated CCM2.50 download, where the old entries will be overwritten by the entries in the new download and lot of new entries will be added, and a patch, only holding the updates for civers with a slow internet connection, who still have downloaded the current CCM2.50 files. These files will also allow to play the next version of WW2 Global Gold - and later my own version of WW2 on a world map.
There is still a lot to do. At present I´m experimenting with some kind of military structure in the game, an additional victory option, an improved railroad option and a slightly improved convoy option - but it is too early to post here anything more now.
For the civilopedia, the describing CCM2 entries for many units can be used, but the entries for the game abilities in SOE must be adapted.
There was a report about a problem when playing this scenario in Russia.
May be the new military organization concept here can help a little bit.
Tony, here are screenshots of some of your WW2 infantry units in SOE:
Hungarian, Yugoslawian, Rumanian and Bulgarian Infantry in SOE:
Dutch and Belgian Infantry in SOE:
The Finnish-Russian border (using Dutch infantry for the Finns) with the shrinked dragon teeth units:
Attachments
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The unit icons of the next version of SOE are now completely compatible with the next unit 32 file of CCM2. I recognized, that in the last versions of SOE many of the special stealth attack settings of units in that scenario were lost and now I am restoring them (what is time-intensive).
The new concept of strategic rail transfer between some special headquarters (that only was a not used prototype in the former versions of SOE) now is integrated in the game. As Soviet and Axis forces ran different gauge rails, the existing lines must be converted before they become operational in a conquered city. A screenshot about the option of strategical rail transfer between Berlin and the West Front is attached to this post.
The next feature will be an improved lend lease mechanism for that scenario.
Here is a screenshot after turn 1 of a current testgame AI vs AI (watched from the Irish civ in Debug Mode):
The new concept of strategic rail transfer between some special headquarters (that only was a not used prototype in the former versions of SOE) now is integrated in the game. As Soviet and Axis forces ran different gauge rails, the existing lines must be converted before they become operational in a conquered city. A screenshot about the option of strategical rail transfer between Berlin and the West Front is attached to this post.
The next feature will be an improved lend lease mechanism for that scenario.
Here is a screenshot after turn 1 of a current testgame AI vs AI (watched from the Irish civ in Debug Mode):
Attachments
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kamil8787, welcome at CFC!
![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
At present no authorized Version of SOE is available for download. For details please read here. When the scenario is available again after beeing reworked and updated, there will be an anouncement in this thread.
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Civinator... Excellent Work and My "Hat" is off to you for the Huge Amount of Ongoing Work you have accomplished and are currently doing 
I hope you are staying well and keeping your Life and Spirit Up during these trying times
I hope you are staying well and keeping your Life and Spirit Up during these trying times
