STR-06: 3CTCC goes Monarch

[ungy]

Else I'd say that reading your text is quite diffclt w all ur abbr ur using.

Funny I hadn't noticed it when I was writing but looking back it does look a mess.

I think we should switch the pyramids to a temple and then run a priest to lightbulb theocracy when possible. We can pick up the pyramids after the temple--we still have a decent chance at them.

 

[Strauss]

Well I just noticed that ungy played pholkhero's turn as he was skipped for this round. It's not a crime since you didn't play more than your share of turnsets, but please pay attention to this in the future.

Anyway:

Roster:
1) Strauss
2) Pvblivs
3) ungy --> just played
4) blid
5) pholkhero --> UP
6) GreyFox --> on deck

I didn't look at the save yet so I can't really mix in the strategy discussion, but it is true that it is possible on Monarch to build the Pyramids somewhere around 500 AD quite comfortably.

 

[ungy]

Well I just noticed that ungy played pholkhero's turn as he was skipped for this round. It's not a crime since you didn't play more than your share of turnsets, but please pay attention to this in the future.

Sorry wasn't sure what the procedure was--no problem will do in the future.

 

[ungy]

I didn't look at the save yet so I can't really mix in the strategy discussion, but it is true that it is possible on Monarch to build the Pyramids somewhere around 500 AD quite comfortably.

Well then it probably makes sense to switch to a temple, run a priest to bulb Theocracy in Athens--switching back to pyramids after the temple. We should get it I would think around 100-200AD.

Parthenon can be built in Sparta--that should come later on monarch. That will give synergy for the GP farm.

 

[pholkhero]

I will go for the temple route as I've got it now for my 15 and will run the priest ASAP.

anything else? will be playing tomorrow so speak now . . .

 

[pholkhero]

Nothing like a no-nonsense turnset ~

I swapped to the temple before pressing enter, and away we go.

725: Monotheism came in, went for Aesthetics for the Parth and other wonders

675: I whipped the temple in Athens for 2 pop. In retrospect, i think this was a move. I didn't realize/take the time to check that Athens was a slow grower, and we would've been better off letting it finish naturally. I haven't run the Priest yet simply b/c we don't have the pop. Again ~ a total mistake on my part I'm still sacrificing a food or two to get more hammers for the Pyramids, too, though Fox may want to change that up.

575: Corinth finished its Granary, and I started it on a Monument for the small culture boost. There was really little else we needed at the time, so . . .

550: Confucianism spreads to Corinth a turn too late. I let it finish hte Monument rather than swapping to a temple. I also revolted to OR this turn.

525: Our work boat is done exploring Mali. Here's a postcard:

We could probably disband it now, but I didn't yet.

440: Aesthetics > Lit for more wonders

425: James Clark Maxwell (GS) was born in Sparta. I figure an Academy will do us good for the culture and sci boost, and it looks like Sparta should be the place, but I didn't build it yet for want of discussion.

I have 2 of our workers @ Athens chopping those forests to speed along the pyramid. After that, though, Corinth could use some mines, and perhaps a wonder ~ maybe the Chicken??

Athens will grow next turn, and Sparta will be done it's temple in 2. That is all.

Fair Greece:

 

[GreyFox]

Inherited Turns, whipped temple and as suggested by pholky, builds an academy.

I would have normally waited with the scientist for philo bulb, but figured Sparta gain a scientist soon enough again (after Athens pop a prophet), and an early academy does gain us +4 culture. We will need all the culture we can garner.

I am however unhappy abt the massive cottaging done. I thought we are doing this the specialist way?

We are officially labelled as broke ... so be it.

A barb appeared to add spice to my otherwise tasteless turnset:

After that, I had to amused myself with watching the barb galley chase Mansa's workboat around ...

And there you have, our nice 3 city empire all happily producing wonders.

I must say I am worried about pyramids though ... I delayed it long enough, choosing to let Athens grow. The next player might wanna do some MM'ing to hurry it a bit. But keep those two forests ... we need to arrange a mass-orgy party for those trees to encourage them to seed around Athens for future chops.

Research wise, I am going for Mathematics, idea is to get it out of the way for a future philo bulb. Also maybe can consider chasing Music for the free artist.

>>> The Save (200BC) <<<​

Spoiler :

Logging by BUG Mod (BtS v3.02) - New Log Entries
------------------------------------------------
Turn 145/750 (425 BC) [29-Sep-2007 17:04:59]
Sparta finishes: Academy
Athens grows: 5
Sparta finishes: Confucian Temple
Corinth grows: 4
Corinth finishes: Confucian Temple

IBT:

Turn 146/750 (410 BC) [29-Sep-2007 17:07:45]
Corinth begins: The Parthenon (100 turns)
A Hamlet was built near Sparta
Corinth's borders expand

IBT:
Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards STR-06(Greece), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 147/750 (395 BC) [29-Sep-2007 17:09:24]
Sparta finishes: Barracks

IBT:

Turn 148/750 (380 BC) [29-Sep-2007 17:10:32]
Sparta begins: Monument (8 turns)

IBT:
Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards STR-06(Greece), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 149/750 (365 BC) [29-Sep-2007 17:10:57]
A Cottage was built near Sparta
Corinth grows: 5

IBT:

Turn 150/750 (350 BC) [29-Sep-2007 17:11:37]

IBT:

Turn 151/750 (335 BC) [29-Sep-2007 17:11:53]
A Farm was built near Athens

IBT:
While defending in the wild near Sparta, Chariot defeats (4.00/4): Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 100.0%)

Turn 152/750 (320 BC) [29-Sep-2007 17:13:13]
Tech learned: Literature

IBT:

Turn 153/750 (305 BC) [29-Sep-2007 17:14:40]
Research begun: Mathematics (10 Turns)
A Village was built near Corinth

IBT:

Turn 154/750 (290 BC) [29-Sep-2007 17:16:40]
Sparta finishes: Monument

IBT:
Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards STR-06(Greece), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 155/750 (275 BC) [29-Sep-2007 17:17:00]
Sparta begins: The Great Library (48 turns)
A Hamlet was built near Sparta

IBT:

Turn 156/750 (260 BC) [29-Sep-2007 17:17:58]

IBT:
Civics Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) from 'Slavery' to 'Caste System'

Turn 157/750 (245 BC) [29-Sep-2007 17:18:44]
Athens grows: 6

IBT:

Turn 158/750 (230 BC) [29-Sep-2007 17:19:28]

IBT:

Turn 159/750 (215 BC) [29-Sep-2007 17:20:12]

IBT:
Attitude Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) towards STR-06(Greece), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 160/750 (200 BC) [29-Sep-2007 17:22:11]

 

[Strauss]

I already played, report coming up in a few hours.

 

[Strauss]

Not a very inspiring set of turns:

Turn 2 (170 BC): Maths comes in, start on Drama. We have some time to get to Music.

Turn 12 (20 BC): Drama comes in, start on Music.

Turn 14 (10 AD): The Pyramids are built in Athens.

The Parthenon due in 10 in Corinth, Great Library 17 turns away in Sparta. We should be able to get to Music first comfortably.

 

[Strauss]

Roster:
1) Strauss --> just played
2) Pvblivs --> UP
3) ungy --> on deck
4) blid
5) pholkhero
6) GreyFox

 

[Pvblivs]

What about this cottaging issue? Has there already been a decision wether to refarm some flood plains?

I've got it and will play like tomorrow or tuesday, don't know when I got time. I have to go to a tree nursery those days and buy a cherry plum for my mom's birthday. This thing should grow to like 10 meters so I am really curious. I have never bought a tree before

 

[blid]

I don't see a problem with cottaging. We have both health and happiness problems. IMO, we can consider farming over cottages post astro if we manage to get some trades. But even that is not guaranteed, seeing as we don't have many spare resources of our own.
We should convert to rep, and grow our cities more. Aqueducts should help with health. I think 6 pops in the ADs is not good enough

 

[GreyFox]

Hmmm ... I don't know. I always thought farming vs cottaging has nothing to do with city's happy limit. IMVHO, it's about city pop distribution. As an example, given happy limit of say 6, you can have 5 working on 2F cottages and 1 specialist or 4 working 3F farms and 2 specialists -- something like that.

 

[ungy]

I think we should have a little general discussion about long term strategy since we are playing a most unusual variant.

I thought the whole point of running a prophet was to lightbulb theocracy and form christianity. So we should not have gotten a scientist before the prophet as that caused us to miss it. It would be a shame to lose Tao as well--I think we should prioritize a scientist at this point and pick up meditation as well. The AI will often lightbulb tao pretty early--though I'm not sure about timing on monarch.

As for the cottages--we are going to be severely health and happy limited. W/o caste long term we can only run 2 specs and if we run caste we will late in the game pick up substantial penalties for emancipation. So I think cottages are really fine as we won't be able to run too many specs anyway or have huge cities.

 

[GreyFox]

Well, I was careful when I added the scientists back to Sparta ... the Great Person bar below the Research bar still shows Athens to be the next to produce a Great Person. Since Strauss is not running BUG mod, I don't know what happened to the great person, likely he removed the priest to hasten Pyramids.

People don't seems to understand my point on cottaging vs farming ... so, chances are, I am the one who don't understand other people's point ... thus, enlighten me please: why does that has anything to do with happy/health limit?

 

[pholkhero]

i htink the point is that with a low pop due to a low health/happy limit, we won't be running all that many specialists, ergo we need to get commerce/science via cottages, no?

 

[ungy]

Well, I was careful when I added the scientists back to Sparta ... the Great Person bar below the Research bar still shows Athens to be the next to produce a Great Person. Since Strauss is not running BUG mod, I don't know what happened to the great person, likely he removed the priest to hasten Pyramids.

We got the prophet--we just didn't get it as our first GP and hence was too late to lightbulb theo (we also would have needed to research meditation).

Speaking of the prophet, we should decide what to do with him. I think main choices are save for partial divine right lightbulb or settle. My guess is that divine right is a ways off, and settling makes the most sense. So if we go that way it should be sooner rather than later.

As for the farms vs cottages, I think you have a good point. We should really take a look at where we want to go GP wise and that should drive the debate. As for scientists, we can use one for lightbulbing philosophy, 2 more academies. Later lightbulbs are not so good, as I think we'll way outrun what we need on tech. Much better not to run scientists and just artists. So as usual we should decide on more of a long term plan.

 

[GreyFox]

i htink the point is that with a low pop due to a low health/happy limit, we won't be running all that many specialists, ergo we need to get commerce/science via cottages, no?

Well, same argument for cottages either. As I say, it is matter of pop distribution rather than growth. So, I don't see what difference it makes whether the happy cap is 6 or 16.

BTW, I am not trying to say no cottages, I am trying to say not every tile should be cottaged. When I got my save, it was that bad (only 1 farm). Especially in the capitol where we are clearly needing growth yet a cottage was planted on the river grassland.

Chances are, we would neither be running SE or CE, but likely a hybrid.

 

[Pvblivs]

No it's not just about distribution. A simple example:

Take a farm providing 4 food in the late game and a cottage on grasslands:
With 1 inhabitant you can work the cottage and have all the advantages a cottage provides you.
With 2 inhabitants you can work a farm and run a specialist or work a farm and a cottage and grow.

So as you see it's not simply about distribution. Running specialists is a thing that only works if you can get your cities bigger. The question is if it is worth it.

 

[blid]

Hmmm ... I don't know. I always thought farming vs cottaging has nothing to do with city's happy limit. IMVHO, it's about city pop distribution. As an example, given happy limit of say 6, you can have 5 working on 2F cottages and 1 specialist or 4 working 3F farms and 2 specialists -- something like that.

Well, I'd take 5 cottages/1 specialist over 2 specialists any day. I think you counted the 2F from capital in the first case and not in the second, so you were not helping SE
I see it that way : with 2 farms, you need an extrat citizen to turn into a specialist. That's 3 people.
With 2 cottages, you only need 2 people. In rep, assuming that our cottages are grown into hamlets, they gave roughly the same commerce/beakers output.
So, you need 1.5 more people to have an SE economy, when using rep. When not using rep, it's the great persons who save an SE economy. But we have only one neighbour, wich makes lightbulbing less effective (no 1-N trades).
In our case, Sparta has a lot of flood plains. This results in more effcient cottaging, since cities grow quickly and we can hire specialists, even though we haven't been farming. IMO, unless we are able to hire more specialists (through both buildings/CS, happiness and helath), there's no point in going berserk about farms.

EDIT : corsspost with pvblivs