Pvblivs
Scriptor
Btw: Chaíre ô synkratistaî! Behold the power of Greece! 
STR-06: 3CTCC goes Monarch
- Thread starter Strauss
- Start date
Do we start AH right away ? It's that or try chasing poly and mono. I prefer the first option, since it allows faster growth and play for conf and philo. In a fractal map, there's a good chance we get early religions from AIs.
We can go mysticism next for henge. Too bad there ain't sea food around.
We can go mysticism next for henge. Too bad there ain't sea food around.
Strauss
King
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2006
- Messages
- 938
Turn 0 (4000 BC): Move Settler 1 SW and I find .... not a lot.
Turn 1 (3975 BC): I settle on the original spot. I don't like wasting another turn moving to the plains hill. We also risk settling on Copper or Iron if we move to the hill. There are no more resources hidden under the last bits of fog and we have quite a barren start, although when a start is this empty, there's usually some hidden resources around.
Turn 10 (3750 BC): Our Scout runs into a Bear and gets killed.
Turn 13 (3675 BC): Buddhism FIDAL
Turn 18 (3550 BC): Hinduism FIDAL
Turn 20 (3500 BC): AH comes in and we have Horses in the capital's cross.
Turn 31 (3225 BC): Mining comes in.
Turn 40 (3000 BC): End of my reign. I'm pretty sure we have the island to ourselves. A blessing or a curse? It does allow us to ease up on the military and focus on building Wonders.
Turn 1 (3975 BC): I settle on the original spot. I don't like wasting another turn moving to the plains hill. We also risk settling on Copper or Iron if we move to the hill. There are no more resources hidden under the last bits of fog and we have quite a barren start, although when a start is this empty, there's usually some hidden resources around.
Turn 10 (3750 BC): Our Scout runs into a Bear and gets killed.
Turn 13 (3675 BC): Buddhism FIDAL
Turn 18 (3550 BC): Hinduism FIDAL
Turn 20 (3500 BC): AH comes in and we have Horses in the capital's cross.
Turn 31 (3225 BC): Mining comes in.
Turn 40 (3000 BC): End of my reign. I'm pretty sure we have the island to ourselves. A blessing or a curse? It does allow us to ease up on the military and focus on building Wonders.
Pvblivs
Scriptor
Turn 0 (40, 3000 BC): Reviewing the situation. Pushing the button.
Turn 2 (42, 2950 BC): The first major milestone during my reign: Athens grows to 21,000 inhabitants (size 3)
Turn 4 (44, 2900 BC): A pack of wolves is attacking our scouts, but is defeated. Meanwhile in Athens the knowledge about Agriculture is practised first on our continent
Our scientists tell me some thing about some copper-tin stuff and I give them green light to research this.
Turn 5 (45, 2875 BC): A warrior is now defending our capital. I decide to recruit some settlers though I am not quite sure where to settle. We must build our other two cities soon though.
Turn 20 (60, 2500 BC): Our first settlers are ready to boldly go where no one (settler) has gone before.
Turn 22 (62, 2450 BC): The settler has arrived at our south border. But I decide to delay it for two turns to wait for Bronze Working to arrive.
Turn 24 (64, 2400 BC): The good news: Our scientists manage to combine tin and copper to a metal they name Bronze, being much more sharp and hard than anything we could use before for tools and weapons.
Next they would discover something like a wheel and I give in to this idea.
The bad news: There is no copper on our continent!
I decide to stop here as we only got 2 city sites to settle on next and missing copper doesn't make the decision easy at all. I would, as soon as possible (after the Wheel or before) go for Iron Working.
Next player can play my 6 turns left as well, but I think this state of the game is subject to discuss before.
The north:
The south:
The Save
Turn 2 (42, 2950 BC): The first major milestone during my reign: Athens grows to 21,000 inhabitants (size 3)
Turn 4 (44, 2900 BC): A pack of wolves is attacking our scouts, but is defeated. Meanwhile in Athens the knowledge about Agriculture is practised first on our continent
Our scientists tell me some thing about some copper-tin stuff and I give them green light to research this.
Turn 5 (45, 2875 BC): A warrior is now defending our capital. I decide to recruit some settlers though I am not quite sure where to settle. We must build our other two cities soon though.
Turn 20 (60, 2500 BC): Our first settlers are ready to boldly go where no one (settler) has gone before.
Turn 22 (62, 2450 BC): The settler has arrived at our south border. But I decide to delay it for two turns to wait for Bronze Working to arrive.
Turn 24 (64, 2400 BC): The good news: Our scientists manage to combine tin and copper to a metal they name Bronze, being much more sharp and hard than anything we could use before for tools and weapons.
Next they would discover something like a wheel and I give in to this idea.
The bad news: There is no copper on our continent!
I decide to stop here as we only got 2 city sites to settle on next and missing copper doesn't make the decision easy at all. I would, as soon as possible (after the Wheel or before) go for Iron Working.
Next player can play my 6 turns left as well, but I think this state of the game is subject to discuss before.
The north:
The south:
The Save
Strauss
King
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2006
- Messages
- 938
I agree on discussing the second and third city sites, but I don't think the absence of Copper makes that big a difference, since we have no direct need for Axemen due to our isolation.
We don't have a particularly resource-rich continent. Red Dot would take a some nice flood plains, and Sheep and Horses in the first border expansion, which will happen quickly due to the Creative trait. I think this should be city site #2. It would make for a great GP-farm and commerce powerhouse in one.
Yellow Dot is actually a sub-par city site..... but I think it's still better than the other possibilities left on the continent
. It would overlap two tiles with Red Dot, so we'd have to see who to assign horses to. If we get IW before our third city (which I don't think we will) finding Iron somewhere might make another site a better option. Otherwise we'll just have to hope to get lucky and pop iron around Yellow Dot......
We don't have a particularly resource-rich continent. Red Dot would take a some nice flood plains, and Sheep and Horses in the first border expansion, which will happen quickly due to the Creative trait. I think this should be city site #2. It would make for a great GP-farm and commerce powerhouse in one.
Yellow Dot is actually a sub-par city site..... but I think it's still better than the other possibilities left on the continent
. It would overlap two tiles with Red Dot, so we'd have to see who to assign horses to. If we get IW before our third city (which I don't think we will) finding Iron somewhere might make another site a better option. Otherwise we'll just have to hope to get lucky and pop iron around Yellow Dot......
Pvblivs
Scriptor
I don't see any dots...? 
But I would settle the flood plains first, yes.
But I would settle the flood plains first, yes.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
The map is pretty dull! Are we isolated? 
Hmmm ... 80 turns and we did not found religion? This is no good (since we are isolated).
I also didn't see any dots. Ideally, we want one of the remaining cities to be high food. The other one could be geared towards production.
--
Hmmm ... 80 turns and we did not found religion? This is no good (since we are isolated).I also didn't see any dots. Ideally, we want one of the remaining cities to be high food. The other one could be geared towards production.
--
I got it.
Isolated start is a bummer, since we didn't go after religions. Also, research and commerce would suck big time, without partners for trades. We can't even have the advantage of easy expansion with our variant
I like your dotmap, Strauss. I was going to suggest moving yellow 1NE and red 1N, but your spots have the advantage of settling crappy dots.
I would play tonight or tomorrow. I would rather try a beeline for COL through the religious techs after researching writing and postpone IW. Chariots can deal with any barbs except swords, I hope there won't be any until we can unfog the whole island.
Once COL is known, if meditation is blocked we can pop machinery and optics with scientists. Though aestethics and literature are very important too and can be prioritized over optics and caravels.
I'm not really used to isolated starts, if someone has experience with those type of games, advice would be appreciated.
Isolated start is a bummer, since we didn't go after religions. Also, research and commerce would suck big time, without partners for trades. We can't even have the advantage of easy expansion with our variant
I like your dotmap, Strauss. I was going to suggest moving yellow 1NE and red 1N, but your spots have the advantage of settling crappy dots.
I would play tonight or tomorrow. I would rather try a beeline for COL through the religious techs after researching writing and postpone IW. Chariots can deal with any barbs except swords, I hope there won't be any until we can unfog the whole island.
Once COL is known, if meditation is blocked we can pop machinery and optics with scientists. Though aestethics and literature are very important too and can be prioritized over optics and caravels.
I'm not really used to isolated starts, if someone has experience with those type of games, advice would be appreciated.
Pvblivs
Scriptor
Sinve when this is an advantage?
On fractal maps an early galley might ease things a lot. Probably they're just a tile or two over. Second: Take some time to settle the last spots as whe're not challenged hurry (that much) we might afford to wait for Iron for the third city.
Other experiences on monarch even within this SG series mostly where bad
Sinve when this is an advantage?
well, I meant using the crappy tile to settle the city, since it always gives the usual 1H,1C,2F
pholkhero
Deviant Mind
phew ~ certainly this start is more 'interesting' than the previous 3ctcc game.
I wonder if the isolated start is compensated somewhat by the fact that you don't need to spend on espionage. [note: this means I have no exp on isolated starts in BtS.]
I wonder if the isolated start is compensated somewhat by the fact that you don't need to spend on espionage. [note: this means I have no exp on isolated starts in BtS.]
I played till turn 100 to make for the turns Pvblivs left out.
After the queued warrior, the capital switched to a worker, finished quickly with the help of a chop.
The settler had to walk with an escort since lions were spawning everywhere, and settled the flood plains spot
I'm not sure wehter this city should be cottaged or not. We would have happiness problems for a loooong time, so maybe it is better to cottage this city and make the third one a GP farm. Otherwise, some cottages would probably be unused till later in the game. I built one farm on a flood plains for a moment but we should think it twice.
After discovering the wheel, I researched the inevitable pottery and picked writing next.
After connecting the horses, two chariots were built to defend our southern countries. We should soon cover the whole continent with culture/fog busters.
I realized we haven't switched to slavery yet and did so. We should have converted before the second city was settled.
I lost a warrior to a barb archer though he was fortified 25% on a forested hill. I always seem to loose this battles and developed a paranoia about early barbs. I value chariots a lot now. For my satisfaction though, a chariot just dispatched to the south east avenged the warrior.
The capital built a new settler for our third and last city.
Some AI finished the great wall. Sparta whipped its granary. The capital finished its library naturally, since it had a lot of production and it was wiser to do that than whip it.
Corinth is settled like discussed
You can see all our cities are connected now. Too bad there isn't a single happiness resource to share.
I finished my turnset and mysticism at the same time. I set our capital to build stonehenge. We would probably loose it but the money won't be bad.
I tentatively selected polytheism as our next target. Now that I actually played some turns, I can see that we will have a major problem with happiness. I would suggest this path :
beeline for monarchy through polytheism and use HR to grow our cities. Try to pop COL with the oracle. Avoid meditation to keep philo locked. After monarchy, we can research mathematics, sailing, metal casting, IW and compass and have a couple scientists pop machinery and optics. There is a chance we can find a continent to our north (we are in the southern hemishpere since we have tundra down south), so a worboat in the capital maybe a good idea, even before trying for henge. If there's really no contact, I feel getting out of this hole is more important than getting the wonders from aesthetics and literature. I think the research path is the most important thing to discuss at this point. Maybe I'm too concerned about getting contact but I'm feeling quite claustrophobic and isolated start advantages are completely killed by our variant.
Here you go
After the queued warrior, the capital switched to a worker, finished quickly with the help of a chop.
The settler had to walk with an escort since lions were spawning everywhere, and settled the flood plains spot
I'm not sure wehter this city should be cottaged or not. We would have happiness problems for a loooong time, so maybe it is better to cottage this city and make the third one a GP farm. Otherwise, some cottages would probably be unused till later in the game. I built one farm on a flood plains for a moment but we should think it twice.
After discovering the wheel, I researched the inevitable pottery and picked writing next.
After connecting the horses, two chariots were built to defend our southern countries. We should soon cover the whole continent with culture/fog busters.
I realized we haven't switched to slavery yet and did so. We should have converted before the second city was settled.
I lost a warrior to a barb archer though he was fortified 25% on a forested hill. I always seem to loose this battles and developed a paranoia about early barbs. I value chariots a lot now. For my satisfaction though, a chariot just dispatched to the south east avenged the warrior.
The capital built a new settler for our third and last city.
Some AI finished the great wall. Sparta whipped its granary. The capital finished its library naturally, since it had a lot of production and it was wiser to do that than whip it.
Corinth is settled like discussed
You can see all our cities are connected now. Too bad there isn't a single happiness resource to share.
I finished my turnset and mysticism at the same time. I set our capital to build stonehenge. We would probably loose it but the money won't be bad.
I tentatively selected polytheism as our next target. Now that I actually played some turns, I can see that we will have a major problem with happiness. I would suggest this path :
beeline for monarchy through polytheism and use HR to grow our cities. Try to pop COL with the oracle. Avoid meditation to keep philo locked. After monarchy, we can research mathematics, sailing, metal casting, IW and compass and have a couple scientists pop machinery and optics. There is a chance we can find a continent to our north (we are in the southern hemishpere since we have tundra down south), so a worboat in the capital maybe a good idea, even before trying for henge. If there's really no contact, I feel getting out of this hole is more important than getting the wonders from aesthetics and literature. I think the research path is the most important thing to discuss at this point. Maybe I'm too concerned about getting contact but I'm feeling quite claustrophobic and isolated start advantages are completely killed by our variant.
Here you go
GreyFox
Make it so ...
I don't know, in a normal game I will be concerned with getting contact. However, this game being cultural I am not so sure abt the importance of contact. The real worry here is religions. The first 80 turns and we didn't get any religion is a 
.
I definitely wouldn't place getting contacts higher than getting wonders. Isolated starts means we can actually afford to keep military at a minimum pre-Astoro and focus on wonders.
--
.I definitely wouldn't place getting contacts higher than getting wonders. Isolated starts means we can actually afford to keep military at a minimum pre-Astoro and focus on wonders.
--
I have been playing some isolated starts recently and there tends to be a bit of a choice. Either you beeline optics for the contacts or beeline lib. Now it's probably worth getting a WB out to see if we're truly isolated. Normally at monarch you could probably beeline optics and still pick up lib. With our variant I'm not so sure.
However, this is not a typical game. With an isolated start we will have no troubles pre astro, and we should be able to keep up reasonably well even with 3 cities. However we need a lot of culture. I have never played a cultural w/o building it so I'm a little in the dark. My guess is we will not want to lightbulb--use some early GS to build academies, we want to prioritize wonders--especially the parthenon. We will need a lot of GP so we may need to be in HR and caste the whole game with a lot of MP units. We should settle the early GA.
I would tend to go for lib and skip everything else. Poly-mon-COL-drama-music (if we think we can get GA) CS-phil would be my goals. Our chances on monarch for COL are pretty good I think even w/o oracle. Might make sense to skip oracle and head straight for parthenon--although our chances I think are pretty good for both at monarch. Getting the contacts means trade of course--but only tech. And what do we really trade for? Currency, calender maybe aesthetics are about it.
I think better to skip that whole line of optics. If we get lucky the AI will show up before we take lib and we can trade for it and pop astro with lib.
I'm away Wed--Sun but can take it and play tomorrow--but we should agree on a plan before anyone plays I think.
However, this is not a typical game. With an isolated start we will have no troubles pre astro, and we should be able to keep up reasonably well even with 3 cities. However we need a lot of culture. I have never played a cultural w/o building it so I'm a little in the dark. My guess is we will not want to lightbulb--use some early GS to build academies, we want to prioritize wonders--especially the parthenon. We will need a lot of GP so we may need to be in HR and caste the whole game with a lot of MP units. We should settle the early GA.
I would tend to go for lib and skip everything else. Poly-mon-COL-drama-music (if we think we can get GA) CS-phil would be my goals. Our chances on monarch for COL are pretty good I think even w/o oracle. Might make sense to skip oracle and head straight for parthenon--although our chances I think are pretty good for both at monarch. Getting the contacts means trade of course--but only tech. And what do we really trade for? Currency, calender maybe aesthetics are about it.
I think better to skip that whole line of optics. If we get lucky the AI will show up before we take lib and we can trade for it and pop astro with lib.
I'm away Wed--Sun but can take it and play tomorrow--but we should agree on a plan before anyone plays I think.
pholkhero
Deviant Mind
well, it seems like we're agreed on a near-term plan, no? head for monarchy, while trying to bulb CoL w/the Oracle ~ do I have that summarized right??
This should at least get us through the next turnset while we continue to hash out whether wonders or contact is more important.
I think I"m w/Ungy when he suggests that we skip the Optics route, and continue on as if we were still aiming for all pertinent wonders. Contacts can only bring us religions, and trade oppurtunities, but as ungy points out, we may not get much from them. W/o being able to build culture or touch the slider, i think the culture from early wonders will be a better investment over the long haul.
If we play our cards right, we should still have plenty of techs to trade once contact is reached, and, w/minimal religions in our cities, we should be open to some late religion spread. We may have to snag the late culture wonders as well to make up for this isolated start, but if we have to, so be it.
just my 5 cents ~
This should at least get us through the next turnset while we continue to hash out whether wonders or contact is more important.
I think I"m w/Ungy when he suggests that we skip the Optics route, and continue on as if we were still aiming for all pertinent wonders. Contacts can only bring us religions, and trade oppurtunities, but as ungy points out, we may not get much from them. W/o being able to build culture or touch the slider, i think the culture from early wonders will be a better investment over the long haul.
If we play our cards right, we should still have plenty of techs to trade once contact is reached, and, w/minimal religions in our cities, we should be open to some late religion spread. We may have to snag the late culture wonders as well to make up for this isolated start, but if we have to, so be it.
just my 5 cents ~
OK--I got it.
After some further thought about our variant and apparently isolated start I'm convinced that our top priorities should be wonders and religions.
If we get SH we should get a prophet and bulb theo with it. COL from oracle if we get it. Bulb tao with GS, and self research DR for 4 religions. Ideally we build SH, oracle, part, pyr. I think I choose parth over pyr tho.
OK Research poly-pri
1250 We miss SH by 3 turns . We meet a WB from Mansa! We are not alone....
Build a WB in Athens to check things out. MM has no religion. MM has GW.
950 my bad. Jud fidl I actually hadn't checked--just assumed it was already founded. Still we wouldn't have gotten it w/o delaying priesthood--a bad gamble IMHO.
900 We get Oracle--COL.
775 We get a 10xp chariot from several barbs.
IBT TOA BIDL
750 Over to the next monarch.
We are one turn away from mono. We could have had last turn but I started on aesth foolishly.
Not sure if building pyramids is correct. An alternative is to build a temple and run a priest to get a prophet for theo. When I think about it some more I'm inclined to go that way. Religion is more important than pyramids, which we might miss anyway. We also might get them even with the detour. My thought was to start the parth in Sparta when Aesth in, running max hammers there.
Alternatively we could give up on the mids, build a temple in Athens then parth, and then run specs in Sparta--save a GS for phil bulb and build academies with others.
Plan is to take OR when mono in.
Sorry for the scattered play--really should have given more thought to the long term strat during the set.
After some further thought about our variant and apparently isolated start I'm convinced that our top priorities should be wonders and religions.
If we get SH we should get a prophet and bulb theo with it. COL from oracle if we get it. Bulb tao with GS, and self research DR for 4 religions. Ideally we build SH, oracle, part, pyr. I think I choose parth over pyr tho.
OK Research poly-pri
1250 We miss SH by 3 turns
. We meet a WB from Mansa! We are not alone....Build a WB in Athens to check things out. MM has no religion. MM has GW.
950 my bad. Jud fidl I actually hadn't checked--just assumed it was already founded. Still we wouldn't have gotten it w/o delaying priesthood--a bad gamble IMHO.
900 We get Oracle--COL.
775 We get a 10xp chariot from several barbs.
IBT TOA BIDL
750 Over to the next monarch.
We are one turn away from mono. We could have had last turn but I started on aesth foolishly.
Not sure if building pyramids is correct. An alternative is to build a temple and run a priest to get a prophet for theo. When I think about it some more I'm inclined to go that way. Religion is more important than pyramids, which we might miss anyway. We also might get them even with the detour. My thought was to start the parth in Sparta when Aesth in, running max hammers there.
Alternatively we could give up on the mids, build a temple in Athens then parth, and then run specs in Sparta--save a GS for phil bulb and build academies with others.
Plan is to take OR when mono in.
Sorry for the scattered play--really should have given more thought to the long term strat during the set.
Pvblivs
Scriptor
Well that is good news as well as meeting Mansa. Obviously it is a quite typical semi-isolated fractal start where we're just isolated at the tip of another - bigger - island or the big continent.
Else I'd say that reading your text is quite diffclt w all ur abbr ur using.
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