Succession game anyone?

[Kiech]

Ok some notes:

Is it a bug that we are using rivers to transport goods when we don't have fishing?? Honestly, we shouldn't have the fruit or the gold connected without a road.

I think I missed the story on how one of our capital warriors was mutated?

Hippus got the holy city first...

As far as diplomacy with Hippus goes, I read our rules as no haggling, not no trading. We can't enter into the trade screen or adjust anything within, but we are free to talk and accept offers.

Scratch my thought on attacking the clan, we just don't have enough military right now.

We really haven't made many troops since my turn-set ended, and I think we are extremely vulnerable. A quick check of the power graph confirms my fears. Sheaim/Hippus might be too busy for us at the moment, but we should assume the Clan has a large army with nothing better to do than stomp some loony Civ that declares war on them immediately.

Meeting the clan is imminent, and we need to be prepared to defend our lands. Killybegs is painfully under-defended and I would much rather see them pumping out Axes then finish the monument and worker. If we mine their hill, it will help with production a lot.

That said, we really need Archery now. I highly recommend dumping (pun not intended) Sanitation until later. I get why you want super-farms, but if things work out the way I fear they will, we won't be able to defend the ones we have now. After that I am a bit more open. My other high priority techs are Myst/WotE/Arete. I am tempted by Cartography and Hunting, but I would rather see religion first and secure our claim to the Mines of Gal-Dur/Bamber.

Our research rate is back up to 100% eating 10 gpt. Are we going to continue that path, or save some for upgrades? If we are using it to speed tech Archery, I am good with it. Otherwise, I would prefer dropping it to 70% for now.

Is that Hill Giant still hanging around the Northern Horse area? We should know that before trying to settle the area.

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Point by point:

Ok some notes:

Is it a bug that we are using rivers to transport goods when we don't have fishing?? Honestly, we shouldn't have the fruit or the gold connected without a road.

This is a common error - you are thinking of sailing, but sailing is only necessary for TR outside borders (TR also hook up resources FYI), inside they work from the beginning of the game.

I think I missed the story on how one of our capital warriors was mutated?

Hippus got the holy city first...

Forgot to mention those two - he entered a chaos flare (is there any way to find out what individual promos do in mnai? Its been bugging me) and yeah it fell early

As far as diplomacy with Hippus goes, I read our rules as no haggling, not no trading. We can't enter into the trade screen or adjust anything within, but we are free to talk and accept offers.

Agree

Scratch my thought on attacking the clan, we just don't have enough military right now.

We really haven't made many troops since my turn-set ended, and I think we are extremely vulnerable. A quick check of the power graph confirms my fears. Sheaim/Hippus might be too busy for us at the moment, but we should assume the Clan has a large army with nothing better to do than stomp some loony Civ that declares war on them immediately.

Meeting the clan is imminent, and we need to be prepared to defend our lands. Killybegs is painfully under-defended and I would much rather see them pumping out Axes then finish the monument and worker. If we mine their hill, it will help with production a lot.

Yeah this was purposeful.
We have plenty of gold for promos in a rush, a lot of warriors (even in mnai 12 for two cities was excessive), and are behind in expansion with our only enemy miles away.
Now is likely to be our best time for building workers/settlers, as as soon as the clan are met we'll have to rush military. We need to get to 4-5 cities yesterday or we won't have the production to counter their warrens boosted army.
They don't know we're going to declare war, their army won't be ready to invade.

That said, we really need Archery now. I highly recommend dumping (pun not intended) Sanitation until later. I get why you want super-farms, but if things work out the way I fear they will, we won't be able to defend the ones we have now. After that I am a bit more open. My other high priority techs are Myst/WotE/Arete. I am tempted by Cartography and Hunting, but I would rather see religion first and secure our claim to the Mines of Gal-Dur/Bamber.

Disagree on archery, its an expensive building for a relatively mundane advantage in defence.
Agree on the rest though, I just put them into sanitation because there was no consensus and I didn't want to get too much gold.

Our research rate is back up to 100% eating 10 gpt. Are we going to continue that path, or save some for upgrades? If we are using it to speed tech Archery, I am good with it. Otherwise, I would prefer dropping it to 70% for now.

Relax we have 280(!) gold saved up for another 28 turns of deficit. Though I agree with upgrading, it'll take the clan at least 5 turns to mobilize, in which time we can collect between 200 and 300 gold (our gpt will grow as aristofarms/gold are added) - easily enough.
Besides 100% saves beakers from rounding errors and allows flexibility - if there's no attack for 20 turns we'll feel pretty stupid with 400 gold saved up right?

Is that Hill Giant still hanging around the Northern Horse area? We should know that before trying to settle the area.

It is (he killed a warrior and promoted too ), I send out settlers with three warriors to escort as a rule.

 

[Folket]

As for trade on rivers. You get traderoutes on rivers and coast within your cultural borders even without techs.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Rivers:

without techs, coast and rivers connect cities and resources inside cultural borders

with fishing, rivers connect also outside borders

with sailing, coasts connect also outside borders


Mouseovering promotions:

instead of mouseovering the icon itself, you have to put the cursor slightly to the right. yes, it's annoying as hell.

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Ill try that.
Didn't know the fishing one, that's a ffh thing right?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

yes, it was added to make fishing a bit more useful aside from seafood

 

[Kiech]

218 gold, not 280 that means 21 turns before we are bankrupt if we stay at 100%. Upgrades to axemen are $70, so we can upgrade 3 times if we save all of our money.

So can we go Myst now and try to beat Hippus to the iron, instead of Sanitation then?

 

[scutarii]

we must connect with copper with the next settler. as already posted earlier - how clan has not noticed us, is a miracle.

We need markets - due to vulnerability we may have time to build only warriors and upgrade to axemen.

There is no point to research tehs, when most cities are either undermanned or cannot build much(especially buildings unlocked with new techs). For instance - there is no point to rush to taxation - to see how pillar of chain takes 30+turns...

Iron?

Mystitsism- RoK-arete - use GE for Mines of gal dur...? Probably the shortest way. But risky...arete is expensive tech...640 Mines of gal dur 700

 

[Kiech]

Lots of differing viewpoints on the same game, very good stuff!

That said, I still don't see how markets will help us when we can get the exact same effect by turning our research down a few % points.

The mines are the best way to get iron without teching iron working.

Although copper will benefit us faster than horses, settling the horse town first blocks Hippus from settling there. Not sure if a can hold the town so I can be persuaded either way.

The Arete path has more benefits than the iron. Culture, soldiers, healers and super-mines are all within our grasp. Its a must do.

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Copper is a wasted settlement far from our borders in a non contested area (sorry I mispoke, it was 288 when I turned research on) horses are also more powerful if we're willing ti pursue it.
Markets are a waste of time - they take too long to grow back.
Defences are fine except on clan border (2 warriors a city is fine for barb defence, the clan haven't met us so there's no reason to worry until they do - we'll have at least 5 turns to prepare a defence against there stack.
We need to be rexing to be able to beat our opponents longer term - otherwise the superior numbers will grind us down.
@scutarii when the cities cannot build much (they need to be focussing on workers/settlers), you research techs that will help you regardless - like construction, sanitation, RoK, arete etc.

 

[akatosh]

Sanitation is a priority tech for any aristofarm economy. I say we finish it and then go back to the archery-->stirrups route.

RoK does not provide culture, by the way. It gives +1 gold per city unless you are talking about a culture bomb for 1 border pop. Runes may spread to us anyway from Hippus.

The holy city is a non-issue. Who cares if Hippus has the holy city? It's like +6 gold or something at this stage in the game. That's equivalent to 1 good tile being worked. To me, the benefits of RoK are a stonewarden (+10% strength to every unit), Bambur (+20% str to melee), and the Mines. The mines are a huge investment in beakers and production, however. I'd rather go for horse archers and just hit the Clan ASAP. 700 beakers into the Mines vs. 6 Flanking I horse archers, which would you rather have?

As for the horses--scutarii I thought you said there were no horses available?

I like the desert hill site for our next city. 3 floodplains to grow, blocks Hippus, and easily defendable on a hill. Also gets us a life mana and horses after monument. Springing it into a plains hill will eventually provide +1 production.

 

[akatosh]

I think I am the next turnset. I'll wait for a day so people have a chance to respond on strategy. I have to declare war on the clan immediately if I meet them and they're evil, right?

 

[Kiech]

Yes, death to the evil Civs.

 

[Qgqqqqq]

I agree with you akatosh (and yes I was meaning the bomb).
I doubt we'll get runes without OB.

Where do you think we should settle?
I'm not to familiar with the mnai tech path - what does HBR give us?

 

[akatosh]

I like settling on that desert hill you marked out. 3 floodplains for fast growth and good commerce. The grass tiles aren't bad either. Only problem with the position is that there is not a lot of production early, so you are probably right about needing to culture bomb that city rather than waiting to build a monument.

So then... after sanitation, we go for Mysticism and Runes? We need to get the horse first to produce horse archers anyway.

Maybe we can do this:

Sanitation-->Mysticism-->Runes-->HBR-->Archery-->Stirrups

After we get HBR in, we start building stables in every city that has decent production. Once stirrups are in, then go to mass horse archer production and conquer the clan.

 

[Kiech]

Ok so we need to clarify what we are actually doing for our military. Right now none of our cities are generating troops.

Can we at least agree to have Killybegs building axes nonstop for now?

 

[Kiech]

I agree with Sanitation, Mysticism, WotE

 

[akatosh]

Ok, I went ahead and played because there was nothing really controversial here. 10 pretty boring turns.

Here's where we started at turn 120. I saw that we had a very nice mutated, 16 xp warrior with heroic attack and cold resistance. Naturally, I renamed him:

http://imageshack.us/f/443/civ4screenshot0010.jpg/

I also rearranged our warriors some. I moved most of our stack east to deal with the Clan and put most of our good warriors there. We will have at least 2 with shock that can hold the Clan's first push. We also know the Luchuirp are in the game somewhere:

http://imageshack.us/f/715/civ4screenshot0011b.jpg/

We had the opportunity to hold the Olympics. I like making friends so...

http://imageshack.us/f/96/civ4screenshot0012m.jpg/

I also cancelled the next worker in Glens of Killybegs. We have 4 workers and there are no more crucial tiles that must be developed. I decided instead to let the city grow and start building an axeman to deal with our inevitable fight with the Clan.

Nothing much happened in this turnset. Here's our closing position on turn 130:

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2604/civ4screenshot0013i.jpg

Note to the next player:

1. In 5 turns, Glens will get a border pop and we'll meet the Clan. We have to declare on them so prepare yourself...
2. In 5 turns, our settler in Cahir Abbey will finish. I've already started moving a stack of 3 warriors west to help settle the horse site. Watch out for that hill giant lurking in that area.
3. Sanitation is done in 3 turns. You may want to start on Mysticism or drop our tech to 0 to get gold to upgrade our stud warrior. You'll also probably want to rearrange tiles to get optimum output.

I'd split the workers into 2 groups. One group starts building roads towards the horse city and the other group prepositions to improve more floodplains in Glens after we get the border pops.

 

[akatosh]

Here's the save

 

[Kiech]

Q
akatosh
Folket - up
Kiech
Scutarii