Elephantium
Trampling the AI
I'm up for another try at Deity...after we lose. I say we're still in this 'til they burn Zimbabwe.
Succession game (Deity)
- Thread starter Elear
- Start date
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Well, I gave this one my all...
After that city flipped, I used the Golden Age with horsemen launch a counterattack. I traded for Currency, and used that to trade for Construction, getting into the MA. I started min research on Feudalism.
The war was excessively complicated, and that's really why I didn't want to hand it over, and went way over my turn limit. For awhile, I didn't even think I was going to be able to beat back the Arabs...at the worst point, they had captured Bapedi, and were threatening Mpondo and Zimbabwe.
I decided to play on until 10 AD and see what happened.
Here is the scene at 10 AD:
Minimap:
And here's the problem with it all: as soon as I can gather enough forces to attack and destroy a city, some civ comes and plants a settler pair before I can replace any with my own. I don't have enough forces to capture cities instead and secure them, let alone squash all the resistance.
Also, horsemen armies (the only thing we can use really...) are very weak: a veteran MDI will attack a full strength one and kill it. They are inept at beating pikemen, and really only good for attacking cities that still use spearmen. I got 4 leaders I think, but the first two armies were killed.
Get to Knights? No way. We don't have iron yet for Knights.
Okay then, If we import it, we face the challenge of...wait..Knights take a long time to build in Despotism.
Okay, let's get out of Despotism...wait...the governments are still fairly expensive to buy.
Okay...let's extort it from the Arabs...wait...once we get a government, they won't give us anything more than a remote city?
Okay..never mind the government...wait...we need to GET to Chivalry in the first place, never mind the iron.
Okay...let's get to Chivalry by suing the Arabs...wait...they will barely give us Feudalism for peace, let alone Monotheism as well.
What about buying it? We have a few hundred gold and +50 gpt...wait...we can only get one tech for all of that.
That's all right, let's go attack the Americans...wait...they are up Feudalism Monotheism, Theology, Chivalry, Engineering, Education, Astronomy, Invention, and possibly Gunpowder.
Let's attack other civs! Wait...they are all up at least most of the techs that the Americans are...
Let's trade with poor Portugal...wait..they are wiped off the face of the map.
Never mind all this! Let's capture the GL and catch up...wait...it is in Persepolis on the other side of the world.
Sorry, just a little frustrated by it all. I hope I was not too cynical.
We can still play this out to the bitter end though.
Elephantium, you're up.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104555/Shaka_of_the_Zulu_10_AD.SAV
After that city flipped, I used the Golden Age with horsemen launch a counterattack. I traded for Currency, and used that to trade for Construction, getting into the MA. I started min research on Feudalism.
The war was excessively complicated, and that's really why I didn't want to hand it over, and went way over my turn limit. For awhile, I didn't even think I was going to be able to beat back the Arabs...at the worst point, they had captured Bapedi, and were threatening Mpondo and Zimbabwe.
I decided to play on until 10 AD and see what happened.
Here is the scene at 10 AD:
Spoiler :
Minimap:
And here's the problem with it all: as soon as I can gather enough forces to attack and destroy a city, some civ comes and plants a settler pair before I can replace any with my own. I don't have enough forces to capture cities instead and secure them, let alone squash all the resistance.
Also, horsemen armies (the only thing we can use really...) are very weak: a veteran MDI will attack a full strength one and kill it. They are inept at beating pikemen, and really only good for attacking cities that still use spearmen. I got 4 leaders I think, but the first two armies were killed.
Get to Knights? No way. We don't have iron yet for Knights.
Okay then, If we import it, we face the challenge of...wait..Knights take a long time to build in Despotism.
Okay, let's get out of Despotism...wait...the governments are still fairly expensive to buy.
Okay...let's extort it from the Arabs...wait...once we get a government, they won't give us anything more than a remote city?
Okay..never mind the government...wait...we need to GET to Chivalry in the first place, never mind the iron.
Okay...let's get to Chivalry by suing the Arabs...wait...they will barely give us Feudalism for peace, let alone Monotheism as well.
What about buying it? We have a few hundred gold and +50 gpt...wait...we can only get one tech for all of that.
That's all right, let's go attack the Americans...wait...they are up Feudalism Monotheism, Theology, Chivalry, Engineering, Education, Astronomy, Invention, and possibly Gunpowder.
Let's attack other civs! Wait...they are all up at least most of the techs that the Americans are...
Let's trade with poor Portugal...wait..they are wiped off the face of the map.
Never mind all this! Let's capture the GL and catch up...wait...it is in Persepolis on the other side of the world.
Sorry, just a little frustrated by it all. I hope I was not too cynical.
We can still play this out to the bitter end though.Elephantium, you're up.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104555/Shaka_of_the_Zulu_10_AD.SAV
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
That's the spirit, Tusker!
In Own's 5BC Defiant Deity game, there were a couple of times when we thought it was all over...and we went on to win! Maybe there's a chance we can pull something off in this game, too.
ThinkTank
RL Addict
In Own's 5BC Defiant Deity game, there were a couple of times when we thought it was all over...and we went on to win! Maybe there's a chance we can pull something off in this game, too.
I lurked that one and indeed you had a couple of amazing breaks. Good game.
I'm fine with playing on if there are still chances but I don't see them right now. Do you? Anyway I'll stay with the team so if you want to play on I'm still with you. I don't really see the point though. It feels a bit like being two rooks and a queen behind in chess and playing on because, hey, my opponent might get a heart attack. Ain't gonna happen.
I lurked that one and indeed you had a couple of amazing breaks. Good game.
I'm fine with playing on if there are still chances but I don't see them right now. Do you? Anyway I'll stay with the team so if you want to play on I'm still with you. I don't really see the point though. It feels a bit like being two rooks and a queen behind in chess and playing on because, hey, my opponent might get a heart attack. Ain't gonna happen.
I agree here.
Defiant Deity was an impressive game, but I think there a number of differences to this game. Really though, I'm fine with going on and seeing how it goes. By the time we get back around to me in the roster, we should be able to make a firm call whether we want to go on or not.
Sound good to everyone?
TheOverseer714
Overseer
The thing about this one was being on the center of a Pangaea. From my Civ3 experience, I feel that Pangaea adds about 1 level of difficulty. Then, I think world size past standard adds 1/2 a level. So this was like a Sid level. I'd like to see a standard continents Deity for a next one. My one demigod was similar to this. I survived meekly as India until Babylon steam-rolled me with tanks vs pikes. That really sucked.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Okay, I got it. I won't have time to play until tomorrow night, but I'll see what I can do.
Amen.
Now, though we will continue through the roster here on this game, realistically we should think more about the next one. I'm up for a continents Deity (or how about 60 percent archipelago?? That is usually more interesting than straight up continents). Standard size is also fine with me. We could use a random civ again, or pick one in particular that we like. Suggestions?
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
For the next one, I'd say use the same settings as this one except make it Std Continents.
ThinkTank
RL Addict
Sounds good to me. I would prefer an agri or industrious civ. Of these I have never played China, Egypt, Carthage or Sumeria. I like Maya, Iroquois, Dutch and Celts. Inca are also an option. Or Persians or Ottomans.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
Sumeria, Persia, Iroquois, Celts and Carthage have the problem of UU's occupying key spots in the tech tree/military that result in a premature GA. The Incan and Egyptian UU's are optional builds, that you can live without until you want your GA The others have well-timed GA's, If their UU's win, it's great. I haven't done Egypt as a Conquests civ in ages. I vote the Inca.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
I've played a couple of turns, and things are going okay. I think we can take another couple of Arab cities in my turnset, and that should be enough to get some of the techs we need. If we can break past the bottom 3 MA techs, we should find some twofer possibilities.
For the future in this game, we really need to slow the tech pace down. I'm thinking of starting a few phony wars like India vs. Persia, America vs. Rome or Egypt, maybe Vikings vs. Rome. We sign MAs with the closer civs and let them duke it out while we focus on consolidating our empire.
After the alliance with America runs out, we turn around and sign all of her neighbors in MA vs. her - that will keep her busy fighting on other borders, allowing us to snap up a few towns.
By this time, we should be ready to move against Carthage.
For the future in this game, we really need to slow the tech pace down. I'm thinking of starting a few phony wars like India vs. Persia, America vs. Rome or Egypt, maybe Vikings vs. Rome. We sign MAs with the closer civs and let them duke it out while we focus on consolidating our empire.
After the alliance with America runs out, we turn around and sign all of her neighbors in MA vs. her - that will keep her busy fighting on other borders, allowing us to snap up a few towns.
By this time, we should be ready to move against Carthage.
ThinkTank
RL Addict
That sounds like a plan. That is what I was not seeing anymore, a plan! I guess we will still have a long way to go, but this sounds like it may work. Do we have enough to trade to buy us the MAs needed for the phony wars?
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
lurker's comment:
Be wary of using resources for this purpose unless you are certain that trade routes will not be affected by war - gpt is your safest option.
ThinkTank
RL Addict
gpt payments do not depend on trade routes?
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
ThinkTank
RL Addict
That's good to know. I never understood the reason why in a lux for gpt deal, when the trade route is broken, the lux side of the deal gets the blame rather than the gpt side, but that makes kind of sense now.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
lurker's comment:
Just think of it in RL terms - lux's need to be physically delivered, whereas gold goes through the electronic banking system.
ThinkTank
RL Addict
Guess I was being old fashioned and still thinking in terms of money transports . . .
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