Succession Game for Newbies

[TheOverseer714]

I think you did an excellent job, Tad, looks like we are closing in for the kill. We already have the dom limit population-wise, and better than halfway as far as territory goes. I haven't heard boo from Hycrest, so I will play the next 10 and then if he wants, he could take mine. If no answer by Tuesday, then it's back to Othniel. I can be flexible with the schedule. Anyway, keep up the good work. Oh, and if we want to do more of these, we need to begin looking for recruits, I think we need 4-5 to make it a true succession game, 6 would be ideal, and some alternates might be nice. We could be Ottomans or Russia next.

 

[Tad Empire_0_o]

On a next SG I sugest being spain, the UU is ok, but not THAT usefull, but it depends on the VC

 

[Othniel]

Our situation looks good. Well done, Tad. That was a clever move to trade maps before dowing the Spanish.

Let's just fill in that last bit of land on both continents with more settlers and finish this thing.

 

[HyCrest]

Hi guys, I'm back from camp but have my grandparents in town until next Monday and getting enough time to play is going to be hard. I'm going to stay on the sidelines until at least the 9th.

 

[Kumquat]

I will join the next game if it is a different VC Con/Dom are not my cup of tea

 

[Othniel]

It's awfully quiet around this thread these days...what's the status on our game?

Since HyCrest is unavailable until the 9th, I think it's TheOverseer and then me in the playing rotation... Consider this a little bit of the to get us going again.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Finally, done with my turn! We have much progress, all Spanish cities were taken and about half of India. I did make peace with the Spanish to avoid WW, as they must have a settler on a hidden boat. We have contact with the Indians, Mongols and Inca and will soon meet the Arabs. I am not trading maps, but I am buying theirs. I have initiated Heroic Epic and the Military Academy and Magellan's, even though we may not need any of them. We are very close to victory, with 48% land/76% population, so finishing India, then the Mongols might just do it. Here is my save and turn-log, and some selected information.

 

[Othniel]

Ok, I'm assuming I'm up next so consider this my "got it."

Good work to get us in position, Overseer.

I play on playing tonight and if all goes well, I hope to have the honor of putting this game away.

I'll just fill in our lands and use our prodigious amount of cash to rush settlers and culture buildings and claim all available tiles.

 

[Tad Empire_0_o]

YEp, Happy 4th Of July arty:

 

[firepeoplebb]

Hi, I was wondering if I could play in the next game. Just tell me when the next SG is starting and if its okay i'm in.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Hiya firepeople. You are welcome to join our next game. It's still in embryonic form, so it can mutate yet. Tad has said he wouldn't mind Spain, and Kumquat will join if we aren't bloodthirsty war-mongers intent on domination. So I could tentatively call it "Spain to the Stars". If you have any other ideas, suggestions, just chime in. It could still change dramatically. I think we might want a standard map, archipelago, 60% ocean, warm/wet with seafaring/european opponents. I may even roll some potential starts. Anyone who wants to play needs to speak up soon.

I will also update the roster to this one:
1. TheOverseer-just finished
2. Kumquat-dropped out
3. Othniel-playing
4. Tad Empire-warming up
5. HyCrest-on deck

 

[Tad Empire_0_o]

Id Like to play Spain to the Stars , why not play contenents or Pangea? Ittle Make it a little bit harder , & I really Really want to use that UU I wonder how much destruction a Conquestador Army could cause

 

[Othniel]

I'm sorry to say that Tad won't get another chance to play here because this one's OVER! The fat lady has sung and the French now dominate the world...

Domination Victory in 840AD with a Firaxis of 5452.

Summary:
I cash-rushed numerous settlers, temples, and a few other odds and ends.

My favorite stat from my turnset:
Cash reserves before my pre-turnset check ~11,000gpt
Cash reserves after my pre-turnset check before I played a turn = 657gp.

We don't get brownie points, at least IIRC , for huge cash reserves so I used it up to significantly speed up the win date.

Also, we never got a single more MGL. Unbelievable! I carefully battled with all the elite cavs we had every turn and came up empty. Same story for our entire game, really, with only 1 MGL the whole time. I wish we had kept better stats so that we could see how awful it really was.

I remember reading that statistically it's something like an MGL should appear once every 48 elite victories or so. It's possible that those 48 victories can be back-to-back like this: MGL-48 victories-48 victories-MGL, leaving ~96 elite victories between leaders. Still, our luck seemed WORSE than that.

We ended up killing the Spanish, Indians, and Mongols in the last turnset on the way to victory.

Turn Log:

Spoiler :

Pre-flight Check:
We're still paying a fair bit of money in unit support costs, so just for the sake of completness I'm going to disband all MDI not on the ships. I'm also going to sell all Libraries and any other useless improvements to save cash for rushing.

I changed all builds possible to Settlers in ex-Spanish lands. I'm going to cash-rush temples everywhere else. We don't get any brownie points for ending with the most cash, so I'm gonna use it up to speed up our victory.

Why were we building explorers in a few cities?

Wow, the pre-flight check took forever just to scroll through all the cities, and do a slight few MM things. CivAssist tells me we have 144 cites, not even that many. I can't imagine how much MM time a proper milk-run takes for a HoF effort.

I turned down the happy slider to 10%. Now we are making +1167gpt.

Our cash reserves before my pre-flight check ~ 11,000gp. Our cash reserves after my pre-flight check = 657gp.

IBT
Our cav takes a ZoC potshot at a passing Indian swords. Hohum

Turn 1 --> 760AD
After cycling through our myriads of cash-rushed builds...

I started to join native workers into our cities to ease the unit support costs. We have more than enough slaves for our remaining purpose.

I just discovered a mysterious caravel filled with three cavalry units exploring the South Pole. They must have been looking for the "Southwest Passage" and needed some serious protection from the polar bears...

The capture of Delhi nets us Hanging Gardens, which enables me to turn our lux slider to 0% and gets us even more gpt... Rename Dehli to Subway-- Eat Fresh!

We are now at -20gpt in unit support but our economy is making overall +1314gpt.

Land domination at 49%, but will skyrocket quickly with the bands of newly produced settlers...

IBT
zzz. One Indian sword on the move, about to become leader fishing bait.

Turn 2 --> 770AD
Took three Indian cities and in position to take 2-3 more next turn.

Unit support costs now 0gpt. Economy making +1376gpt.

Land domination at 51% and pop domination at 77%.

IBT
zzzz

Turn 3 --> 780AD
We take three more Indian cities, only one remaining for old peaceable Gandhi.

For sheer pleasure, I traded each of the remaining civs either Mono or Theo for their remaining gold and maps, and then DoWed them all. It's France against the world! Bwhaaaa... This move might cause us a little war-weariness, but our economy is more than up to the task.

Land domination at 54%. We're making 1397gpt.

IBT
zzzz

Turn 4 --> 790AD
Destroy the last Indian city. Bye Bye Gandhi.

Capture two Mongol cities, kill some Incan units.

Land domination still at 54%. Many temples expand next turn, so this number will rise...

IBT
zzzz

Turn 5 --> 800AD
Without me moving one unit yet this turn, culture expansion due to the temples makes our land domination level increase to 58%.

Kill the southern Inca city and a handful of Incan MDI.

Spot a red-lined Spanish galley with a caravel and send it to the bottom. No more Isabelle.

At end of turn, land domination up to the magical 60%! We are making +1424gpt.

We are now up to 172 cities plus a couple more settled on this turn...

IBT

Turn 6 --> 810AD
A Spanish chain-gang finishes a road through the central tundra, hooking furs and gems up to our main continent. We now control 7 luxes.

The Arabs must have a dearth of spearman because they have taken up to escorting random settlers with Ancient Cavs.

Our luck on MGL is astoundingly bad. I've had numerous elite victories this turnset, trying to maximize their chances each round, and no leaders. That seems to have been the awful trend for our whole game--only 1 MGL. I wish we had kept better stats on elite victories to know just how bad it's been.

Turn ends with 61% land domination. We have 88 cavalry units heading our assault. Pretty decent, but not nearly enough armies... The Academy is due in 1 turn.

IBT
A few Incan MDI and one rogue Mongol horse attack my cavs. This is the first time the AI has attacked our units in a long while...
Incans finish Sun Tzu's. Scary...

Turn 7 --> 820AD
Capture Mongol capital and get the Oracle. Ladi-freakin-da. Got 4 more Mongol cities to boot. They are down to 1 city and should be dead next turn.

We are now at 64% land domination. I thought to myself a few turns ago that we would be at the limit around turn 9 of my turnset--2 turns from now--and that premonition looks to be pretty accurate. I don't expect to hit 66% next turn, but almost certainly by two turns from now.

Military Academy finished and Orleans starts on an Army that will never be finished.

Just for interest's sake, I butchered a stack of 3 ancient cavs. It was pretty fun...

IBT
Arabs and Incans tag-team to destroy a mini-invasion of 3 MDI that I had set down in Arab territory last turn

Much WLTKD and the people expand our palace... This is due to capturing Mongol spices last turn


Turn 8 --> 830AD
Massacre the last Mongol defenders, take their town, and Genghis is no more.

Finish the turn at 65%. So close!

I could cash-rush the Army unit--wasn't sure if that build was rushable--for 1500gp but I resist.

We are making +1494gpt with 2535gp in the bank. No real need to cash-rush anymore. Just need to claim the last couple of tiles. Should be one more turn now...

There are 19 units near The Wave's debarking point with more units nearby, but no need to load them into the waiting caravels...

IBT
Watch as 1 of our cav units butchers 3 attacking Incan MDI and red-line a 4th before our cav retreats...

And then...

Cultural expansion has put us over the edge. WE WIN!!!

A couple of final screenshots:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

<<Here's>> the final turn-after save if anyone wants to see it.

Good game to all!

 

[Othniel]

Some additional post-game analysis thoughts:

In the interest of using lists of 7 things, here are 7 positives and 7...umm...areas to improve in.

7 Things that went well:

1. Getting the Pyramids was a huge boost. Huge.
2. Strong emphasis for getting workers pumped out. We had plenty.
3. Republic was exactly what the doctor ordered. Between the military dominance and the luxes, no WW ensued and we made tons of gold.
4. Stronger empire management as the game went on, it seemed.
5. Many good spots of ICS specialist farming.
6. Pretty good self-control over wonder and useless improvement building. A few unnecessary temples and libraries crept in there but not too bad
7. Momentum with the conquest. No real "rest stops" once we got going and no one built useless defensive units. Bravo for that!

7 Things to improve:

Firaxis of 5452 wasn't great, but our time of 840AD was decent for a large map. I think we could have sped things up by doing some of the following things:

1. Cash-rushing more. Each time I got the save, we had huge cash reserves. Better to put that money into units, especially settlers, and also temples when and where appropriate.
2. Managing our unit support costs better. We needed to disband the slow MDI much earlier on, or just not build them in the first place...
3. Worker management. We still didn't finish improving all of our core area by the game's end.
4. Leader-fishing more for MGL to get armies, primarily by getting our elites to the front more often rather than being MPs.
5. Less use of MPs.
6. Making sure the core had uniformly built courthouses and marketplaces, and then making sure no overly-corrupt areas had these improvements.
7. MM of cities for exact shields when building stuff.

Again, overall I thought we played quite well. to all! I noticed significant improvements in overall gameplay as the game progressed.

The next game should be played at Emperor or higher difficulty.

I'd be interested in anyone else's "post-game thoughts."

I'm not sure I'll have time for another go at an SG, but possibly... If so, I don't mind the ideas being kicked around so far, but I'll have to think about it. I'm almost interested in doing a 20k SG. That's crazy though, simply crazy... . I've never heard of one being done before, although I'm positive someone must have tried.

One other nagging thing: I really should know this for sure, but I don't... Do coastal tiles count toward the domination limit--no sea or ocean tiles though--or is it simply land tiles that count? I'm getting this confused with the scoring system and I'm too lazy to go search out the answer. . The answer on this would have a big effect on how I play domination games...

 

[Own]

lurker's comment: Othniel, I can say with 100&#37; certanty that they don't, water has nothing to do with domination.

I have been lurking this thread, and I must say that that was some excellent post game analysis Othniel . Sounds like you'll be quite an asset on our quest to beat 5BC Defian Deity .

 

[Othniel]

lurker's comment: Othniel, I can say with 100% certanty that they don't, water has nothing to do with domination.

I have been lurking this thread, and I must say that that was some excellent post game analysis Othniel . Sounds like you'll be quite an asset on our quest to beat 5BC Defian Deity .

Thanks for the response, Own, and I'm looking forward to that defiant attempt.

So coastal tiles don't count, eh? That's interesting...and makes sense. At various points I cash-rushed temples to claim more coastal space, which turns out to be useless for the dom limit. Of course, I could have verified that through CivAssist, but again that lazy thing crops up...

Off-topic question: Is it true then, IIRC, that having coastal tiles--or perhaps working coastal tiles--contributes to score on a milk run? I thought I read that at various points in some of the old classic milk run games by Sir Pleb and others. I understood that they wanted coastal cities because it contributed more points to their final score than other terrain types, but now I'm not sure...

 

[Own]

Off-topic question: Is it true then, IIRC, that having coastal tiles--or perhaps working coastal tiles--contributes to score on a milk run? I thought I read that at various points in some of the old classic milk run games by Sir Pleb and others. I understood that they wanted coastal cities because it contributed more points to their final score than other terrain types, but now I'm not sure...

That's why getting one tile island is so key in milked games, you only get 1 tiles closer to domination, but you can get 20 pop in it (with longevity, granary, and some worker joins). You want to get as much score per land tile under your control as possible.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Way to go, Othniel! I think a Firaxis score of 5400+ is something I am proud of! I wonder what our Jason score is? To explain the oddities you mentioned, the explorers were the cheapest, most mobile units to use the shields generated by chops(I hate shield waste too). When built, I move them to a city building military units and disband. Kinda stupid, but what the heck? The loaded for bear caravel was in search of the mythical last Spanish city. I should have turned it around to the war zone, but I decided I would circumnavigate the globe after I was halfway there. Anyway, getting back to the game, I think it was a terrific first go. I want to thank all who participated, those who commented, and all the lurkers who watched, but didn't comment A special thanks goes to Othniel, our official unofficial trainer, who really should have been in charge. I really appreciated the willingness to comment gently on the dumb things that crop up in a non-competitive players game, and the work you put in.

 

[Othniel]

Way to go, Othniel! I think a Firaxis score of 5400+ is something I am proud of! I wonder what our Jason score is? To explain the oddities you mentioned, the explorers were the cheapest, most mobile units to use the shields generated by chops(I hate shield waste too). When built, I move them to a city building military units and disband. Kinda stupid, but what the heck? The loaded for bear caravel was in search of the mythical last Spanish city. I should have turned it around to the war zone, but I decided I would circumnavigate the globe after I was halfway there. Anyway, getting back to the game, I think it was a terrific first go. I want to thank all who participated, those who commented, and all the lurkers who watched, but didn't comment A special thanks goes to Othniel, our official unofficial trainer, who really should have been in charge. I really appreciated the willingness to comment gently on the dumb things that crop up in a non-competitive players game, and the work you put in.

Yep, I think this was a worthwhile game that was well-played. The explorer trick was a good idea and would work well in a closer game. Many thanks to you, Overseer, for coordinating things and to everyone else for their participation.

I'm not sure I was all that gentle as I got a little "in-your-face" at times with my opinions , but hey!, thanks anyway. Hopefully it was a learning experience for all.

I think we may be able to test our score using a Jason calculator (possible found in the GOTM section??) but I'm not sure and I've never tried it.

Thanks, Own, for the clarification on the "coastal score" mechanic. The whole happy people to total land ratio makes good sense.

 

[Aabraxan]

lurker's comment: Congratulations on a job well done!