Succession Game Open: Need Three Players

[dojoboy]

Okay, my turns are complete.

1495 AD - worker assignments

1500 AD - Hoover Dam & Iron Works completed;trade luxury to China; Mao appears to be the only civ w/ gold

1505 AD - Sardis revolts and rejoins the Persian Empire! [Never say "gone forever" Txurce. It must be my kinder and gentler leadership! ]

1515 AD - Began improvements around Sardis

1535 AD - Began Wall Street in Susa

1545 AD - Discovered Motorized Transportation (MT); began tank build up; researching Radio (anticipate China going for Flight); traded MT to China for 78 gpt + gold; We've got about a 2-3 turn advantage in research on China

1570 AD - Wall Street completed in Susa.

1585 AD - Discovered Radio a couple turns back, China reaches Flight; trade Radio to China for Flight and 6 gpt + 300 gold; enter Modern Age, earning Rocketry = now one full tech lead over China instead of a 2-3 turn advantage; begin researching Space Flight; lost furs & gpt deal

1590 AD - Saved game after general maintenance.

Next turn - Decision needs to be made about sliders, currently 0-9-1 and losing 51 gpt (started when we lost the furs & gpt deal) but will reach Space Flight in 9 turns. Do we adjust slider to 1-8-1 (positive gpt but Space Flight in 11 turns), or do we adjust slider to 1-9-0 (losing happiness bump)?

Summary: I didn't feel we were prepared to begin conflicts due to insufficient forces to strike decisively. Therefore, I continued worker improvements, building barracks, some infantry, etc. There were no international incidents or MPPs signed. I upgraded cannons to artillery and built about 8 more to provide a siege force (humor me - its one of my favorites before MA). Also, I immediately began constructing tanks - note pic titled "rail_road_yards." I warehoused attack forces - I arrange a stack of ten, then begin a new stack. There is a transport in Parsagadae, in case we need to take the Indian controlled island off the coast.

Well, it looks like someone else can have the fun in conquering our continent. By the time my turn comes around again, it'll probably be complete. If, you guys choose to go that route. Txurce! Txurce! Txurce! :tank: :soldier:

Question: If we have all the infrastructure we want for the moment, what do you think about switching the economy over to mobilization and crank out tanks to bring Babylon and Zuluand into the Empire? Its been so long since I've bothered w/ mobilization, so I don't recall if it hurts research. ???

Railroad Yards

Saved game emailed to Txurce & Pigumon. I'll try to upload the save file and link it. You guys have a happy Thanksgiving break. I'll check the boards, but will not be able to play again until some time Saturday.

 

[dojoboy]

Pigumon, please post how you upload saved games, step by step. I can't figure the damn thing out.

edit: Evidently, it has to be a zipped file. I went back and changed .SAV to .zip and it showed up in the uploads2 database. However, it wasn't zipped. Now, I need to learn how to zip a saved game. Pigumon, would you please teach me?

Here is the saved game. Be sure to change .zip to .SAV and it'll work fine. It did for me.

Mac Succession, 1590 AD

 

[Pigumon]

I tried couple of way to upload. Retrospectively it is not so difficult. I tried sav files but they never showed up. I concluded that sav files do not work!

For zip file, I use free software MacZip. You can find on the internet.

1. Click "Upload File" at the bottom of forum page.
2. Click "Browse" in a upload window.
3. Select your file.
4. Click "Upload" and wait.
5. Upload window say "upload completed successfully" or like that.
6. Click "new upload server" to look for your file. I think Netscape works better, since IE does not seem to refresh upload2 contents automatically.
7. Make a link in your post.

That's it! Nothing special.
As summary: Use zipped file and try both IE and Netscape.

 

[dojoboy]

Got MacZip, thanks. I finally figured out .SAV wasn't showing up. That is when I tried the .zip experiment w/ a non-zipped file. When it showed up, I knew. Linking wasn't the problem. Now, I need to figure out MacZip. See ya.

 

[Pigumon]

Good, dojoboy.

Thank you for good news about Sardis. And I like your stack of Tanks!

Go to or not go to war is now one of big decision.
The other decision I forgot to ask was whether we need Democracic government or not? If we choose space race, Democracy is better in science. In the case of war, Republic is better than Democracy? I am not sure, since I always switch to Democracy even if I need to fight. Because we do not have religious trait, we will lose 5-10 turns without any production.

What do you think?

 

[dojoboy]

I say we stay w/ republic for now. Maybe later, if we get a two tech advantage, we may feel like losing 5-10 turns of production is worth it. But, I feel we'll still launch before the other civs.

I'm all for a "nice little war" agaist Babylon or Zululand. But, if so, lets get alliances w/ the other continent. We don't want them allying against us.

We can declare war on Zululand and sign an alliance & RoP w/ Babylon. Once Babylon's forces enter Zululand's territory, we surprise attack the Babs. We'll need to make sure Babylon's SoD is far away from home. They'll be sitting ducks for a quick strike, then we turn our attention to the Zulus. Eh? Now, I usually don't willfully break alliances w/ out good reasons, but I'm more ruthless on higher levels.

Well, it looks like you and I can toss around ideas while Txurce is away for the holiday. When he returns, he can mull over our posts before his turns.

 

[Txurce]

Dojoboy and Pigumon, we are coasting all the way. I rarely manage to sustain my post-ToE tech lead as well as build up the armed forces. I'll play my turn in the morning, but first some feedback to your comments.

Dojoboy is egging me on to take the continent, so if Pigumon has no objection, I will start this process, while sacrificing nothing in the space race.

I don't think democracy accelerates research in any noticeable way, other than workers working faster, which isn't that relevant at this point. It certainly wouldn't make up for the anarchy period, were we to switch out of republic.

There is no research penalty for mobilizing, so if we have all the research buildings we need, I'll mobilize.

While I was away, I wondered if Dojoboy intended to start a war. My recommendation would have been to start by invading India, then wheeling around and KO'ing either China or Japan (whoever was stronger). My overall strategy would have been to cripple the civ closest to us in tech, moving right down the line, and so best increasing the odds of a domination win before someone launched. (That's what happens when you're thinking about Civ, but can't play it!) Choosing between Babylon and Zululand, I would lean toward a quick strike to take the Zulus' rubber resource, then turn around and do the same thing to the Babs, except in their cultured case, I wouldn't stop until they're history. After that, it would be back to the Zulus, who should be incapable of doing much.

My initial feelings about alliances at this point are that we don't need them, because we can't lose. However, there's another benefit to signing a few alliances and MPPs - the AI's research always dips in wartime, whereas ours doesn't need to. If we're all fighting, our tech lead could increase even further. As a result, what we may want to do here is turn our expansion plans into an excuse for a world war... a war whose conclusion we intend to witness from space.

What do you think?

 

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by Txurce


While I was away, I wondered if Dojoboy intended to start a war. My recommendation would have been to start by invading India, then wheeling around and KO'ing either China or Japan (whoever was stronger). My overall strategy would have been to cripple the civ closest to us in tech, moving right down the line, and so best increasing the odds of a domination win before someone launched. (That's what happens when you're thinking about Civ, but can't play it!) Choosing between Babylon and Zululand, I would lean toward a quick strike to take the Zulus' rubber resource, then turn around and do the same thing to the Babs, except in their cultured case, I wouldn't stop until they're history. After that, it would be back to the Zulus, who should be incapable of doing much.

Welcome back, Txurce. I support your plans for war and government. However, why are you looking at knocking out India first, then China and Japan? It seems like the more difficult approach. Are you thinking those guys are the biggest threat to the s/r, so take them out early? I look forward to seeing how you play it out.

 

[Txurce]

Dojoboy, the idea was not just to conquer as much territory as possible while trying to launch first, but to actually win by domination, having a ss ready to launch as insurance. I often feel that, if the timing is right, it's best to attack your strongest enemy first, thereby keeping all of your opponents comfortably inferior to you. In our game, that means China, because we are significantly ahead of our immediate neighbors, and ahead of Japan. I would hit India first because they are so small, and provide a solid foothold on the other continent, allowing us to build up our forces there before attacking China. In terms of timing, I have to assume everyone has tanks, but that the basic form of defense is infantry. So I would try to cripple China before they researched computers and upgraded to MI. Whether Japan was next or one of the civs next door would depend on where Japan and Persia were at the time in terms of MI and MA. Because this approach is more difficult at first, I would definitely avoid being ganged up on by making sure I have MPPs with Babylon and the Zulus.

I hadn't intended on doing any of this, by the way, because I thought you guys wanted to take the home continent first. This was just my way of trying to ensure that we win by domination before anyone launches - an additional challenge, given that I think we've otherwise won the space race. Let me know what you think.

On a side note, building the U.N. is a very high priority, because we could easily lose a vote, and the game. If we mobilize, even a prebuild is a risk, because I'm not sure the U.N. is considered military, and I may not be able to switch to it from a palace prebuild. As a result, it may be a better idea to research fission asap (or trade for it), and postpone mobilizing until we are actually building the U.N. But even then, we may not be able to start building ss parts while mobilized. I'll try to research this (as well as the U.N.), but I'm starting to think that this may not be the optimal situation to mobilize. Yet another challenge for Persia!

Finally, I would normally build research labs and SETI right away just to speed up the ss win by a few turns, but if our main desire is to war effectively, then I would probably sacrifice this approach.

 

[Pigumon]

Welcome back!

Either plan is fine for me.
Clear up our continent will not take much time, as long as they do not get strong ally. But striking potential s/r rival first makes more sense, though this is novel idea to me.

Let's go to where you want. We can follow you!

I thought we could build or switch to Wonders regardless of mobilization.

 

[dojoboy]

Your call.

 

[Txurce]

1590: China is in anarchy, and at war with Japan. Persia has the only elected form of government in the world; our tech lead seems very safe. I switch research from space flight to fission in order to build the UN, and mobilized. I sign an MPP with the Zulus to cover my back, and cancel the RoP with India. In anticipation of ww, I trade Japan radio for two luxuries, 30 gold, and 28 gpt. I then set the luxury slider at zero. I rush two transports, and start building a battleship to protect them.

1595: I land eight cavalry on the Indian island south of Persia; 16 tanks are en route to India.

1600: War is declared against India. We take one of the three cities on the Indian island. The tanks land near Lahore.

1605: The Zulus declare war on India, and move on the two Indian cities on their northeast. A second island city falls, as well as Lahore and Delhi. Battlefield Medicine is built.

1610: The Indian island falls to our cavalry; reinforcements arrive on the Indian mainland.

1615: Our tanks start to mass outside Madras and Bombay.

1620: The Zulus take the two Indian cities on their border. A transport of our tanks circles south of China.

1625: Madras falls, giving us Magellan’s. Luxuries raised to 10% for ww. The Japanese take their first Chinese city.

1630: Bombay falls, the end of India. Mobilization ends. Our tank transport unloads on a hill outside Shanghai, China’s rubber city. We declare war on China, and get a GL. The GL becomes an army, victorious in the same turn. We start to build the Heroic Epic and the Military Academy.

1635: Japan is now in the modern era, but China has made no progress. We start to build the UN and temples in the captured cities, then mobilize again. Shanghai falls, giving us Leo’s as well as China’s rubber. Spies inform us that China has only a couple of tanks, mostly infantry.

1640: We take Tatung, an oil city in the south, and pillage the oil resource outside Calcutta – China has no oil. We also establish a gem colony, and set the luxury slider back at zero.

1645: The Heroic Epic is completed. Our army destroys China’s lone army. Calcutta falls, giving us China’s east coast. Our overseas troops are spread thin, and Shanghai flips back to the Chinese. But our spies tell us the Chinese forces are on the ropes, so we spread our forces even thinner and declare war on Babylon. Akkad and Amatikulu fall to our tanks.

1650: The Zulus declare war on Babylon, and lose a northwest city. We consolidate against Babylon, and move south against China.

1655: We take Nippur in our rear from the Babs. Against China, we retake Shanghai and capture Tientsin and Hangchow. Everything is under control, right?

1660: Japan makes peace with China, and when we fail to give them rocketry, declare war on us! Japan has a large infantry force as well as a few tanks and some cavalry dep in China, right around all of our barely defended captured cities. We can’t fight their troops in the mountains. So we take Chengdu from China, giving us their entire east coast and a solid border. China has four continental cities left, and still hasn’t researched a single modern tech: it’s finished. We agree to peace for 418 gold and 22 gpt, and wait for Japan’s first move.

1665: Japan takes four of our captured cities, and throws our civ into disorder. But we capture them back in the same turn. More tanks sail for the war against Japan.

1670: The Military Academy is completed; we start to build an army. Madras flips to Japan, but we get it back, and get a second GL, which becomes another army. We start to build new cities in the ravaged Chinese lands. And we take Kish and and Tugela from Babylon, mainly using artillery and cavalry.

1675: The war with Japan continues to be mostly our leading their infantry stack in a circle, while picking off stray units who leave the mountains. But our luxuries are now at 40%, which means we can’t keep fighting against both Japan and Babylon for much longer.

1680: We start an offensive designed to win a favorable peace with Japan. Our two armies move north, and take Shantung. Banking on imminent peace with Japan, we commit our homeland tanks on an assault against size-20 Nineveh.

1685: Nineveh falls, and we move on Ellipi. By now, the Zulus have reclaimed all of their western cities from Babylon. Our overseas armies mass outside Yokohama.

1690: We build another city on the other continent. Our overseas armies take Yokohama, then gamble and push on, taking Kaifeng and Anyang as well. This puts all seven luxuries under our control, and establishes a narrow border with Japan. The Japanese agree to peace for 360 gold, then trade 31 gpt for two luxuries. Peace allows us to set our luxury sliders back to zero. We abandon Nineveh, and build a new city on its ashes. Ellipi falls, and our tanks mass on a hill outside babylon, looking down on the Sistine Chapel. The Zulus enter our territory, looking for revenge against Babylon. We cancel our MPP with them.

 

[Txurce]

In 1695, Persia is five turns from researching space flight, and three from building the UN. Japan is the only remaining somewhat competitive civ, and they have yet to research a single modern tech. We have a spy everywhere except Zululand, and basically face only infantry, with only Japan having a good-sized force. At this point, we could wipe out Babylon, take the Zulus next, and finish the job with China, with very little trouble; this might give us a domination win without fighting Japan again. In case we do fight them, though, we could make it easier by researching ecology and synthetic fibers next, so we can upgrade our tanks. As long as they don't have MI, they're toast.

What needs addressing most is the reinforcement of our offshore cities, even after the Japanese return home, and our borders there become much more secure. The concern isn’t so much another war with Japan, but cities flipping. I'm presently starving a lot of them. The rushing of temples has been started, but you may want to consider slowing our research and applying more gold to this project. Another alternative is to keep building settlers, and replace some of the captured cities with out own. All of this is even more true with regard to Babylon, due to its even stronger culture. It's why I delayed taking their capital... although capturing the Chapel will probably allow more widespread warring without ww.

 

[dojoboy]

Fine job, Txurce!

What about building workers in Babylon, after capturing it? We can have about 6-8 of our nationals (workers), or settlers, standing by to join Babylon.

Smart move in switching research to fission for the UN. I didn't consider the risk - oversight on my part.

I say we beeline for synthetic fibers, then space flight. I don't believe Japan will be in position to win the s/r. The others will not last that long.

 

[Txurce]

Good idea on building workers in Babylon - I always forget to do that. What I have done with the workers we've captured, though, is to have them join our home cities. We'll have space flight soon - I should have gone for ecology instead - but then we can get back on the military track.

 

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by Txurce
We'll have space flight soon - I should have gone for ecology instead - but then we can get back on the military track.

This will help us settle in from WW. Also, we can goad Babylon into declaring war on us through espionage (low risk of success option). This will give us a boost in happiness as our citizenry rally around the empire's armed forces.

 

[Txurce]

No need to goad Babylon - we're still at war with them. Our ww can handle one war at a time, I guess - things became problematic when the Japs were behind our lines, and we were at war with Babylon as well.

 

[Pigumon]

Good job! Txurce,

We are ready to win.
But I was surprized that you did a lot of job (war) to bring us here. The 20 turns is a really good period to play. I could not have imagined such a huge progress.

I will build some cultural infrastructure on Japanese border cities and toast Babylon. I am not sure which is easier, Zulu or China. But I think that before we get both civs out, we will achieve domination.

 

[Txurce]

I was amazed at how much could be accomplished in 20 turns as well, especially since the first third were spent dealing with India, which none of us viewed as the main event.

Something that really helped is that Japan had already softened up China. I try to take advantage of this sort of situation whenever possible... and manipulate its occurring if it's not.

I'll be curious to see the map once you hit the domination point. I'm always surprised by how much more was needed than my naked eye estimated.

 

[dojoboy]

Are you guys interested in another succession game? I think three persons is a good number, but others may want to get on board. I wouldn't want to play a game w/ more than four. I felt this game was a nice break while playing the tourney game or a personal game. The big bonus was how much I learned as a player.

We may each want to start a game with a couple other folks, or play together again. I'll do either. I'd like to give the next game a title which is what is done over at the PC succession thread. Let's see, what would have been a good name for this game? "Persia's Quest," or "Xerxes' Legacy." I've seen some that are quite lengthy and historical in nature. Just thoughts.

I'll post a discussion thread for others to check out and maybe sign on.