Suggestion: Slayers

[wapamingo]

I am not sure whether this was suggested before, it if has I appologize.

Currently the unit promotion tree has Orc Slayer, Undead Slayer, Demon Slayer, Dragon Slayer... I think this is it.

Why not introduce more flavor and have: Elf Slayer, Dwarf Slayer, Human Slayer, Centaur Slayer, Angel Slayer, and more.

The "slayer" promotion should be tied to race so that Dwarf units cannot promote to Dwarf Slayer but to others, same with Orc units cannot promote to Orc Slayer.

This would require introduction of "Human" race as a start promotion on human units. The trait does not have to have anything special to it or I suggest something trivial as most civs are human.

Also, could the AI be thought to promote to 'slayer' depending on who its neighbours are? And can the barb AI be thought to do the same?

 

[Tascani]

That leads me to the question why we do have an "Orc Slayer" Promotion.
Isn't that plain unfair for the Clan of Embers?

@ Topic
I don't like anti-racial promotions in the way of +40% vs. XX.
It would be cool to have it for special heros/units only - or via an event - with a little story about it.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

afaik orc slayer is only available to the Chislev in FF, and that's mostly because they are intended to be great at killing barbs.

 

[Valkrionn]

Is Orc Slayer even used in Wild Mana? It's used by the Chislev in FF and RifE, with a decent back story as to why, but I didn't think it was used anymore in other mods.

 

[wapamingo]

I am pretty sure its there in WildMana as I tend to promote my wars to it in early game, and it is available to all civs including Clan (when I last played them in I think 7.0 or 7.1)

The reason I suggested it was from an RP perspective we could have great racial wars (dwarves vs. elves), and in case of Barbs they would naturally hate the civilized nations around them and develop best methods of fighting them. Eventhough I think "slayer" is a very negative word but it condenses what I feel that promo stands for: unit has developed specialized tactics in combat situations against these people.

I don't think its overpowered as it is a dead-end promo after Combat I. Mid-game it is more valuable to promote units into city attack. Where I think 'slayer' promo is valuable is in cannon fodder units.

 

[Neomega]

Yes orc slayer is in Wild mana, and I love it. I think it would be great to have other slayer promos. I think demon and angel slayer should only be available to demons, angels, and other extra planar beings, though.

 

[Oneluv]

What do you think of "Slayer" promos being made avail. only after having engaged in combat with an enemy? i.e. no "Elf Slayer" promo until your civ has killed an elf.

Or perhaps made avail after having shared a common border or "open border" agreement? Simulating how living next to a potential enemy may make it possible to quantify his/her weaknesses and develop techniques to exploit them.

 

[Neomega]

What do you think of "Slayer" promos being made avail. only after having engaged in combat with an enemy? i.e. no "Elf Slayer" promo until your civ has killed an elf.

Or perhaps made avail after having shared a common border or "open border" agreement? Simulating how living next to a potential enemy may make it possible to quantify his/her weaknesses and develop techniques to exploit them.

I like the first one better, and a lot.

 

[Imuratep]

Or you could grant elf slayer to all units in a city if you sacrifice an elf slave in a city with an asylum. I refer to some scientists vivisecting an elf to find the weak parts of his body...

 

[Oneluv]

Or you could grant elf slayer to all units in a city if you sacrifice an elf slave in a city with an asylum. I refer to some scientists vivisecting an elf to find the weak parts of his body...

WOW! I've been lurking around this forum for years and I think that's one of the most disturbing things I've read yet.

 

[Breez]

I think it would be neat to do them as a dynamic promotion. Every time you kill a unit of X race you have a .5% (1/2 of 1%) chance of gaining the promotion. Meaning each unit would have to learn it by fighting a LOT of that type of target.

I have a spider the other night that killed about 35 or 40 Goblins. I was about to rename him to Goblinbane

 

[Neomega]

I think it would be neat to do them as a dynamic promotion. Every time you kill a unit of X race you have a .5% (1/2 of 1%) chance of gaining the promotion. Meaning each unit would have to learn it by fighting a LOT of that type of target.

I have a spider the other night that killed about 35 or 40 Goblins. I was about to rename him to Goblinbane

I think 1/5th chance would be good enough... and I actually like this idea better than giving promotions.

 

[Imuratep]

You could link it to the racial promo. Every racial promotion then enables a 10% chance to pass the Slayer-promotion of the respective race to a unit that defeated it.
If you want to enhance this system create Elf/Orc etc. Slayer I-III (each granting +20% against units of this race) If a unit that defeats a unit with the respective race already has a "Slayer" promotion it gains the next level "Slayer"-promotion instead (similar to the Empower mechanic for Wolf packs).

 

[Vainglory]

I don't really see a reason for not letting races gain the slayer promotion for their own race- don't the Svartalfar want to kill the Ljosalfar?

Elf, Dwarf, and Orc slaying used to be in the main mod when it was in Vanilla civ, but they were removed when ported to BtS (I'm not quite sure as to why). It was always amusing to be on the same continent as the Luchirup and Khazad and have a nice bonus against them.

 

[TowerWizard]

Would it not be better to have a pure Slayer national unit (max 4), like an early Berserker unit, made available at the same time as the Axeman? This unit could cost like 90 hammers, starts weak, but have access to a unique chain of promotions and upgrades. Can use all metal weapons. This, and only this, unit starts with a Slayer promotion that you can choose (Elf, Dwarf, Dragon, you name it...) and as it levels up, you can choose to upgrade it to Slayer+ and Slayer++, each getting better stats. It should be useless at defending, but great at attacking.

Slayer: 3/1, starts with one Slayer prompotion and the Enchanted Blade
Slayer+: 5/2, upgrade at 4th level, gains one free promotion (at Smelting?)
Slayer++: 7/3, upgrade at 7th level, gains one free promotion (at Iron Working?)

Promotions includes the +1 attack ones, usually only available to Heroes, but not anything that can generate defense, like Woodsman and Defender.

The exception to the rule of only Slayers having slayer promotions, is the Barbarian Slayer promotion, available to everyone. This would affect all units not belonging to a player, except animals.

 

[wapamingo]

TowerWizard: My only concern with the unit is that assassins would pick the slayers you propose very easy as they would be weakest in the group.

Vainglory: makes sense; evil elf vs. good elf - why not.

I like the %chance to get slayer promo on win (something small, like 5% or 10%) and can upgrade to greater slayer level after each win but lower % change for each level higher. This is great and makes sense. I can't code for poop, wonder if this dynamic can be put into WildMana?

 

[TowerWizard]

@wapamingo: Sure, the Slayer can be killed by Assassins. This is an acceptable drawback. It can be avoided by using Guardsman-promotions, or they could simply be added to a stack of mages, to protect them from dying. I don't see this as a reason not to include the slayer unit.

 

[Neomega]

So this is kind of happening now in WM with free promotions being given for say daring forest attacks or other low probability victories...

..I'd love to see a bunch of various slayer promotion possible, available only through killing a unit of that race, (kind of makes sense), and possibly just +20% vs, since they would no longer be purchasable with XP. Maybe have a 5% chance every battle to gain it. Also, once one of the slayer promos are gained, all the others are no longer possible. So there wouldn't be a hero running around with all 10.
-slayer (vs human)
-goblinbane (vs goblin)
-dragonslayer (vs dragon)
-elfhunter (vs elf)
-orckiller (vs orc)
-purge (vs undead)
-scourge (vs disciple)
-angelkiller (vs angel)
-demonhunter (vs demon)
-destroyer (vs golem)

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

indeed if slayer promos are to be added, the occasional promo modcomp is THE way to do it

 

[tesb]

i don't know if would like so many different version of slayers promotions. what is so different between putting your sword through a human then an elf? they would also be a bit problematic to balance since the ai afaik can not be told to go for certain slayer promotions if it faces a particular opponent. also there might arise problems in the way the power modifier is calculated. you may have a whole army of dwarf slayers, but you are facing humans how would that be properly displayed in the strength of the civilization? I can see the point of the current slayer promotions since dragons and demons are not normal humanoids and also rare and powerful.
Imho it is the orc slayer promotion that is a bit strange here. maybe change it to barbarian slayer or something akin to that, so the unit is only stronger against barbarians.