Suggestions and Requests

[MechatronicJazz]

There's been some controversy here in Montreal surrounding John A. Macdonald, whose statue was taken down by protesters this week. And I realized from skimming the news that Macdonald was openly not a democrat. He was very wary of the "tyranny of the masses," and the one minority he thought deserved protection — unlike the First Nations, Asian Canadians, and French Canadians — was... well, in his words:

“We must protect the rights of minorities, and the rich are always fewer in number than the poor.”

Currently, Macdonald has Democracy as his favorite civic. This is a bad fit. Let's change it to Free Enterprise or, better yet, Individualism.

Yeah, I saw that too. You make a good a point, but it depends on what democracy represents in the mod. Macdonald was a proponent of British-style parliamentary democracy, which you could argue did a very good job at protecting the rich minority. I would not give him Free Enterprise, as he did advocate for tariffs and heavy government involvement in certain industries, such as the railway. At that time, the Liberals were more the classical liberal, free market party. The Conservatives (which Macdonald led) were more interventionist, though not to the benefit of the masses.

 

[Steb]

Yeah, I saw that too. You make a good a point, but it depends on what democracy represents in the mod. Macdonald was a proponent of British-style parliamentary democracy, which you could argue did a very good job at protecting the rich minority. I would not give him Free Enterprise, as he did advocate for tariffs and heavy government involvement in certain industries, such as the railway. At that time, the Liberals were more the classical liberal, free market party. The Conservatives (which Macdonald led) were more interventionist, though not to the benefit of the masses.

Fair points. No Free Enterprise then, but I still think Individualism is a better fit than Democracy. To be clear, Canada should have Democracy at spawn and generally keep this form of government, but it's just weird to think of Macdonald as trying to convert other countries to it, etc. There are no other leaders with Democracy as a preferred civic (except Castilla apparently); surely Macdonald can't be its staunchest defender in the game.

Since Macdonald was very much the dominating figure of Canadian politics in the post-Confederation 19th century, there isn't really a concern of balancing "preferred civic of leader" vs. "what we want the civ to adopt in this period."

 

[Leoreth]

By the way, if anyone wants to do a greater review of preferred civics, that would actually help a lot. I admit that I assigned them somewhat haphazardly when creating the current civics system.

 

[Steb]

Oh no I can just see myself procrastinate by filling a google sheet with favorite civics soon

 

[Cosmos1985]

Since changes related to more specific pagan religions have show up, I would like to give some suggestions that can help.

Most of european nations should have the norse pagan religion. The germanic paganism share close ties with the norse ancient faith. Many gods names, costumes and traditions are very close. In the game, only the germans/austrians, prussians and scandinavians have this representation. However, France, England, Spain, Italy and Portugal have germanic origin that come from the barbarian kingdoms during and after the fall of the roman empire and this have influenciated the development of their culture and national identity for some time. Therefore, if their ancestors are of germanic etnicity, the Asatru should be their correct pagan religion instead of druidism.

Have to disagree here. Unless we do the CKII trick and rename the faith Germanic in order to broaden the scope, I don't see it making sense for those civs other than perhaps England. Influenced by Germanic tribes and Germanic religion before they became Christian, sure - but when were France, Spain, Italy or Portugal ever Asatru?

 

[Lord Roanino]

‘Fountain’ should be a building. It could give extra health and/or happiness for cities that build it. Available in the industrial era perhaps?

 

[1SDANi]

‘Fountain’ should be a building. It could give extra health and/or happiness for cities that build it. Available in the industrial era perhaps?

If we get fountains, then we need wells too. IMO, this all may be a bit too micromanagey for DoC.

 

[Leoreth]

You could argue that wells are a feature of every settlement while fountains are a special feat of engineering.

 

[Leoreth]

Speaking of buildings, I was considering adding a global/digital era health building. Any ideas?

 

[rmontaruli]

Speaking of buildings, I was considering adding a global/digital era health building. Any ideas?

What about something related to holidays?
A beach in costal cities, and a ski station in cities with a peak in their radius.

 

[Dracosolon]

Some ideas:

-Appartment blocks (Infrastructure),
-Health Campaigns (Psychology, could get more powerful with later communication techs or buildings),
-Creches (Social Services),
-Radiologists (Laser or Computer, require Hospital),
-Resorts (Tourism, in all cities in addition to economic effects).

And from earlier eras:
-Charities (no idea what tech, could be a Great Prophet building).

 

[need my speed]

Daycare Facilities / Creches are a genuinely good idea I think. They're also indicative of a larger change in how society and family is organised (starting all the way from 'children no longer need to work on our farms and no longer need to care for their older (grand)parents' - unless you also want to add a Retirement Home?).

 

[Malchar]

Speaking of buildings, I was considering adding a global/digital era health building. Any ideas?

Gym, Spa, Fitness Center - these would go along with the "fitness culture" which arose in the 1800's and continued to grow along with technology and media to present day.

 

[Steb]

Public Health Agency? Maybe a little abstract as a building, but not as a health improvement effort from the government. There's probably nothing a government can do that more directly impacts health. It's also not covered by any existing buildings, and would fit the Social Services tech perfectly. (Social Services doesn't really grant anything related so social services as of now.)

 

[Leoreth]

Bleach dispensaries

 

[Dominus the Mentat]

Animism is a religious descriptor just like paganism. It is not a specific name for a belief system.

If you're looking for some info on pre-Islamic west African religion, the Epic of Sundiata has some interesting syncretisms, depending on the version.

Sorry. I forget that Animism is a religion civic in the game . Well, I have read some texts, including the ones that Krieger-FS and MechatronicJazz indicated, and I found that the Ghana Empire worshipped a black snake called Bida, who is believed to be the reason for the empire's wealth in their mythology. However, I found no reference to this deity being worshipped by the malinke too. One detail I have found reading a resume of The Epic of Sundiata is that the baobab tree was called S'ra and has been described to have healed Sundiata from his physical illness. I believe that the name S'ra, a baobab tree or its leaf (to be more simple) as an icon and a sacred grove or tree could be representatives of these people's traditional faith. I found this image that can help wit the icon's art. If not, I can find another.



About Kongo, the cosmogram have this form:



The same symbol in the Kongo civilization flag in the game.

Have to disagree here. Unless we do the CKII trick and rename the faith Germanic in order to broaden the scope, I don't see it making sense for those civs other than perhaps England. Influenced by Germanic tribes and Germanic religion before they became Christian, sure - but when were France, Spain, Italy or Portugal ever Asatru?

Well, based on my readings, I suggested this because Asatru have many similarities with the continental Germanic faith and the anglo saxon faith. So, I thought it wouldn’t be an exaggeration. About the civilizations, I have based myself on the Germanic kingdoms that have been created in the respective regions of Portugal, France, Spain and Italy (Franks in Galia, Visigoths in most of what would be Spain and south France, Suebi in most of what would be Portugal and finally the Lombards, who dominated large parts of Italy for some time) and that have given origin to their languages and culture. However, However, make a new pagan representation for these civilizations can be nice and more appropriate, since the name Asatru comes from Iceland and is more norse-oriented.

 

[MechatronicJazz]

Well, based on my readings, I suggested this because Asatru have many similarities with the continental Germanic faith and the anglo saxon faith. So, I thought it wouldn’t be an exaggeration. About the civilizations, I have based myself on the Germanic kingdoms that have been created in the respective regions of Portugal, France, Spain and Italy (Franks in Galia, Visigoths in most of what would be Spain and south France, Suebi in most of what would be Portugal and finally the Lombards, who dominated large parts of Italy for some time) and that have given origin to their languages and culture. However, However, make a new pagan representation for these civilizations can be nice and more appropriate, since the name Asatru comes from Iceland and is more norse-oriented.

I think it's worth noting that when we talk about "Germanic" kingdoms after the fall of Rome, we are talking about kingdoms with a Germanic elite, not necessarily with entirely or even predominantly Germanic populations. Of course, the religions, cultures, and languages would have been influenced by the elite and by population migration and integration, but it wasn't complete. Case in point, the major languages of western Europe are mostly Romance languages, not Germanic ones, pointing to the lasting influence of Latin. I'm not sure of the predominant pre-Christian religions in those regions, but I don't think we can just default them to Germanic. Of course, we can only get so granular, so some generalization may be needed.

 

[Steb]

Yeah, there's no good answer to a question like "Are the modern French people more Celtic, Latin, or Germanic?"

Ethnically, they're probably mostly Celtic, but Celtic religion and language was gone long ago—except in Brittany. But there are also genetic contributions from Latin peoples in the south and from Germanic peoples in the east and Normandy. Linguistically, French people are absolutely Latin, with almost no contribution to the modern French language from Gaulish or Frankish. The names "French" and "France" come from a Germanic people, and so does the general organization of the country, since the Frankish invaders were the one who founded what eventually became the Kingdom of France and then the French Republic. But the Franks didn't really introduce their pagan religion—they converted to Christianity early in French history. Speaking of which, the dominant religion of the French is Roman Catholicism, so Latin... but that doesn't mean much either, considering that Christianity is a missionary religion that can spread anywhere. Also, Roman (and Greek) culture influenced all of Europe, especially during the Renaissance, so the degree to which any European people is Latin may be overestimated. The real answer is that "the French people" is a concept that makes sense only when you combine all these influences together.

This is a theoretical question, since France will almost never adopt paganism in game. Maybe we should ask what kind of neopaganism would have been the most likely to take hold in France. Outside of Brittany, I'd say it's probably Olympianism. After all, the French words for the days of the week are based mostly on Roman gods: mardi = Mars, mercredi = Mercury, jeudi = Jupiter, etc.

For England, it's probably between Druidism and Germanic paganism (Asatru or whatever other name you want to give it, there are many: Heathenry, Theodism, Fyrnsidu, etc.). Both seem popular among neopagans.

Not sure about Spain and Portugal and their colonies, but the Latin influence is probably the strongest. Italy has to use Olympianism.

 

[DC123456789]

Ultimately the pre-Christian religion of France, Spain, and Portugal was probably some sort of Romano-Celtic syncretism, so you could probably make arguments for both. On cultural and linguistic grounds they seem more Romance than Celtic IMO so Olympianism makes more sense.

England should definitely be Germanic though, since the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms did bring over and follow their form of paganism for substantial amount of time.

 

[Dracosolon]

The question of "who are the ancestors of the French" is also something that was answered differently depending on the political situation. The monarchy and parts of the aristocracy obviously stressed their ties to the Franks ("Louis" was supposed to be a derivative of "Clovis") while following the Revolution it became convenient to think of the Franks as foreign invaders of the actual French people. Latin influences were always the biggest, especially in the southern half, and the Enlightenment era was strongly influenced by a renewed interest in Rome. But Celts probably ultimately won that battle in France's modern popular imagination thanks to the use that was made of them as a nationalist symbol (in contrast to Prussia), especially under the Second Empire and Third Republic. "Our ancestors, the Gauls" used to be a motto in French schools. Vercingetorix and his doomed battle against Caesar became a popular romantic figure. And it's not exactly a coincidence either that post-WW2 France birthed Asterix as its most popular comic book hero.