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Suggestions and Requests

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. Malchar

    Malchar Prince

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    Those also sound good. I'm always a fan of more espionage options. However, I still like the idea of directly controlling units that can freely attack without declaring war. It's hard to cite specific examples in contemporary history, but it feels like it would be realistic and fun.

    I actually tried modding my game to implement this, and it seems to work pretty well. I simply copied the relevant xml from the privateer and pasted it into the xml for the marine.

    You can attack units without war as expected, but you cannot attack into city tiles without war. If you are at war, you can capture cities. I'm not sure how the AI will use the units, but I will see as I continue my current playthrough.
     
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  2. Dominus the Mentat

    Dominus the Mentat Warlord

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    Since changes related to more specific pagan religions have show up, I would like to give some suggestions that can help.

    Most of european nations should have the norse pagan religion. The germanic paganism share close ties with the norse ancient faith. Many gods names, costumes and traditions are very close. In the game, only the germans/austrians, prussians and scandinavians have this representation. However, France, England, Spain, Italy and Portugal have germanic origin that come from the barbarian kingdoms during and after the fall of the roman empire and this have influenciated the development of their culture and national identity for some time. Therefore, if their ancestors are of germanic etnicity, the Asatru should be their correct pagan religion instead of druidism. Druidism is more related to the welsh, irish and scottish peoples who share cultural ties more closely with the ancient celtics, who practise it.

    In West and Central Africa, Yoruba is a wrong representation of both Mali and Kongo civilizations. Mandinka peoples are described to have practiced animism before Islam and the peoples of the Kingdom of Kongo have their own religion, before Catholicism has introduced, that was called Bukongo. The Yoruba religion is only common in the yorubaland, territory where the nations Benin, Nigeria and Togo exist today. My suggestion of pagan religion for Kongo and Mali are those:
    • Mali - Change Yoruba to Animism. The temple should be the Animist Shrine (I believe some small animal statues or a great old tree can match well with it). I have not found a unique symbol for their specific belief, besides some fetish itens, but I believe it could be something related to nature too (a tree, a leaf, water). URV goal - Since their belief of this faith is based on cure, I believe that something related to cure like heal X units, heal X units for Y times or have no city with unhealthy higher than X % of health are some examples.
    • Kongo - Change Yoruba to Bukongo. Their temple I have not found a specific name, but in their language, Kinlongo means temple, so it could be Bukongo Kinlongo or Bukongo Temple. Their symbol should be the Kongo Cosmogram (the symbol in Kongo's banner). I believe the art of the building can continue the same. URV goal - The same kind of goal suggested to animism, since Bukongo is based on cure too, but a different option.
    I don't know if it's possible to count healed units or if it's possible to separate between units that have already counted and those that are not. Let me know and I'll think in another possibilities.

    Moors pagan religion should be the same of Phoenicia. Since the Phoenicians have spread a lot of influence in the region and the traditional beliefs of the berbers variate between region and which power dominate or have spread strongly his culture to the natives.
     
  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    Animism is a religious descriptor just like paganism. It is not a specific name for a belief system.

    I am limited by art assets, so please include suitable materials for icons etc. in your suggestions.
     
  4. Krieger-FS

    Krieger-FS Warlord

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    Considering that Mali represents broadly all the Mandé peoples (which were the main empire-builders in the region), how about we use their pagan religion to represent the older Ghana Empire paganism?

    I've been reading about these medieval kingdoms recently (the more “academic” Cambridge History of Africa volumes and the more general Empires of Medieval West Africa, both that can be easily found online) and found very sparse information about their pre-Islamic beliefs (usually described as "Traditional African Religion"), but some aspects can be interesting to include.

    According to the Muslim geographers/explorers, the Ghana capital, which was divided in the Muslim and pagan (where the king, the Ghana, lived) towns, the latter possibly named al-Ghaba (literally “forest” in Arabic) had several sacred groves where the priests-sorcerers lived in. Thus, the pagan temple could be named “Sacred Grove”. I have to say that I don’t know if there is a good easily available art for it but could be a small enclosure with some trees (perhaps baobabs?).

    One interesting aspect that I also found is that many of the priests were also blacksmiths because their expertise with fire and turning iron into tools or weapons was regarded as something magical. Perhaps something related to this aspect could be interesting as one of the URV requirements, requiring building some X number of forges and having X mineral resources.

    I’m unsure about good symbols or proper names for the religion, since these traditional religions were usually beliefs systems closely related to their own ethnic and cultural groups. Thus, one idea is to simply use Mandé as pagan religion. Another option could be Juju, which is a term applied broadly to the traditional West African religions (arbeit more specifically to areas in modern Nigeria and Cameroon) that had magical properties. Other technically incorrect but the geographically closest possible options that I've found in the wiki are Bori (the animism of the Hausa, in northern Nigeria) or a fat Roog (the magical paganism of the Serer, in Senegal and Gambia).
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
  5. Steb

    Steb King

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    There's been some controversy here in Montreal surrounding John A. Macdonald, whose statue was taken down by protesters this week. And I realized from skimming the news that Macdonald was openly not a democrat. He was very wary of the "tyranny of the masses," and the one minority he thought deserved protection — unlike the First Nations, Asian Canadians, and French Canadians — was... well, in his words:

    “We must protect the rights of minorities, and the rich are always fewer in number than the poor.”

    Currently, Macdonald has Democracy as his favorite civic. This is a bad fit. Let's change it to Free Enterprise or, better yet, Individualism.
     
  6. MechatronicJazz

    MechatronicJazz Warlord

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    If you're looking for some info on pre-Islamic west African religion, the Epic of Sundiata has some interesting syncretisms, depending on the version. In addition to the blacksmith priests that Krieger-FS mentions, there is also the hunters, who seem to have had a spiritual role as well. The version of the Sundiata that I've read depicts him as both a Muslim king and a Hunter-king, which seemed to represent the presence of both pre-Islamic and Islamic belief in early Mali. I don't know much more than that, but it could be worth looking into more.

    Edit: Quick clarification - I used past tense, but 'Traditional African Religion' probably still exists in west Africa, even if it likely isn't nearly as widespread now, so there may be modern sources to look at well. Historical sources may give a better picture of how things were in the past though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2020
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  7. MechatronicJazz

    MechatronicJazz Warlord

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    Yeah, I saw that too. You make a good a point, but it depends on what democracy represents in the mod. Macdonald was a proponent of British-style parliamentary democracy, which you could argue did a very good job at protecting the rich minority. I would not give him Free Enterprise, as he did advocate for tariffs and heavy government involvement in certain industries, such as the railway. At that time, the Liberals were more the classical liberal, free market party. The Conservatives (which Macdonald led) were more interventionist, though not to the benefit of the masses.
     
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  8. Steb

    Steb King

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    Fair points. No Free Enterprise then, but I still think Individualism is a better fit than Democracy. To be clear, Canada should have Democracy at spawn and generally keep this form of government, but it's just weird to think of Macdonald as trying to convert other countries to it, etc. There are no other leaders with Democracy as a preferred civic (except Castilla apparently); surely Macdonald can't be its staunchest defender in the game.

    Since Macdonald was very much the dominating figure of Canadian politics in the post-Confederation 19th century, there isn't really a concern of balancing "preferred civic of leader" vs. "what we want the civ to adopt in this period."
     
  9. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    By the way, if anyone wants to do a greater review of preferred civics, that would actually help a lot. I admit that I assigned them somewhat haphazardly when creating the current civics system.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
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  10. Steb

    Steb King

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    Oh no I can just see myself procrastinate by filling a google sheet with favorite civics soon
     
  11. Cosmos1985

    Cosmos1985 King

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    Have to disagree here. Unless we do the CKII trick and rename the faith Germanic in order to broaden the scope, I don't see it making sense for those civs other than perhaps England. Influenced by Germanic tribes and Germanic religion before they became Christian, sure - but when were France, Spain, Italy or Portugal ever Asatru?
     
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  12. Lord Roanino

    Lord Roanino Chieftain

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    ‘Fountain’ should be a building. It could give extra health and/or happiness for cities that build it. Available in the industrial era perhaps?
     
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  13. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    If we get fountains, then we need wells too. IMO, this all may be a bit too micromanagey for DoC.
     
  14. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    You could argue that wells are a feature of every settlement while fountains are a special feat of engineering.
     
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  15. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    Speaking of buildings, I was considering adding a global/digital era health building. Any ideas?
     
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  16. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

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    What about something related to holidays?
    A beach in costal cities, and a ski station in cities with a peak in their radius.
     
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  17. Dracosolon

    Dracosolon Chieftain

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    Some ideas:

    -Appartment blocks (Infrastructure),
    -Health Campaigns (Psychology, could get more powerful with later communication techs or buildings),
    -Creches (Social Services),
    -Radiologists (Laser or Computer, require Hospital),
    -Resorts (Tourism, :health: in all cities in addition to economic effects).

    And from earlier eras:
    -Charities (no idea what tech, could be a Great Prophet building).
     
  18. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    Daycare Facilities / Creches are a genuinely good idea I think. They're also indicative of a larger change in how society and family is organised (starting all the way from 'children no longer need to work on our farms and no longer need to care for their older (grand)parents' - unless you also want to add a Retirement Home?).
     
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  19. Malchar

    Malchar Prince

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    Gym, Spa, Fitness Center - these would go along with the "fitness culture" which arose in the 1800's and continued to grow along with technology and media to present day.
     
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  20. Steb

    Steb King

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    Public Health Agency? Maybe a little abstract as a building, but not as a health improvement effort from the government. There's probably nothing a government can do that more directly impacts health. It's also not covered by any existing buildings, and would fit the Social Services tech perfectly. (Social Services doesn't really grant anything related so social services as of now.)
     

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