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Suggestions and Requests

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. Louis the XIV

    Louis the XIV Sun King

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    The Apostolic Palace does have that option but it would be more interesting to create events, like the Trading Company event, about Crusades.
     
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  2. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Why?
     
  3. Seakin

    Seakin Chieftain

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    I think the crusades are fine within the Papal election/Apostolic Palace.
    Tho an issue for me is that the Palace is rarely build by the ai.

    I would suggest to:
    a) give the ai a greater focus on priests if controling a holy city of state religion without a shrine
    b) build it for free on the great shism event (maybe only for the ai)
    c) seperate it from the shrine and connect it only to the holy city itself

    Edit: d) be able to give holy prophets to other nations/build the shrine without owning it (somewhat representing the financing of it by buying Indulgenc i guess)
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  4. BaneFire

    BaneFire Warlord

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    The Apostolic Palace Crusade option if passed should spawn a Crusader army. And it should be a bit more common to pass, something like 1/3 to 2/3 of games.
    Why? Because it was important historically. It defined Christian-Muslim relations for centuries if not until today. The Crusades should be a significant threat for a Arab and Turkic game, and potentially even a Mongol one.
     
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  5. BaneFire

    BaneFire Warlord

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    Diplomat/Ambassador unit.
    Has the "Commando" ability (can move on foreign roads). Cannot be attacked like spy. Cannot be detected, unlike spy (or it has a very low "detection" rate). Is visible to other players?
    Basically, as someone like China it's often beneficial to send spies out to ensure you have permanent contact with certain nations for tech trading. Which is what they did IRL - China sent out many foreign delegations to establish trade routes.
    Unfortunately sometimes the spy randomly gets caught and you lose relations, despite the fact you weren't actually spying on them.

    In theory the Ambassador unit should still have a "detection" or "capture" rate so that you can't just have permanent contact with a foreign nation for all eternity for free.
     
  6. Caesar Augustus

    Caesar Augustus Prince

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    Could be a limited unit like missionaries so you have to pick and choose who you try to keep contact with. If possible the limit could start really low, maybe just 1, but be increased by later game techs or civics. They should also be vulnerable to barbs and natives... maybe even be auto-destroyed or returned to your territory by independents so that relations break when the civ they're based in collapses.
     
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  7. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    The Levantine crusades were relevant for roughly a century. That's ten turns on normal game speed.

    I have some ideas around that that I would love to implement at some point.
     
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  8. BaneFire

    BaneFire Warlord

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    The Seljuks only lasted around 15 turns (1030-1200) , and the Mongols 17 (1200-1370), and besides, who's to say that they'll only last that long in a DOC game. It would additionally also make a Mamluk/Fatimid mid-game Egyptian spawn have a bit more to do.

    ---

    Also could some of the automatic tile/city swaps have some more conditions and or events for them? Often in a China/Japan game, Vladivostok will flip to Russia without any warning or chance to refuse, and you'll also get random forts throughout the Pacific Northwest, often on resources that you've already improved. Should Canada have Vancouver in its flip zone? It's weird again as China/Japan when European settled Canada suddenly demands Vancouver from you.
     
  9. Hickman888

    Hickman888 Warlord

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    I like @BaneFire 's idea about the crusade policy spawning a little army. Maybe it can be done in a similar manner as the Trading Company event: If the resolution is passed, every Catholic civilization has the option to either...
    A.) Ignore the crusades (Diplomatic hit with all other Catholic civilizations)
    B.) Declare war on the non-Christian civilization that owns the holy city of Orthodoxy (or Catholicism)
    C.) Draft a crusading army to go retake the holy land.

    With the last option taking away a couple population from each of your cities. The drafted army also shouldn't be that big, as each civilization has the option to draft an army or not.
    Alternatively, if that idea has too much potential for abuse, then the "pope" of the Apostolic Palace is the only one given the option to draft an army, and every other Catholic civilization just gets the option to declare war or not.

    While we're on the topic of the Apostolic Palace, I feel that the "Collect Tithe" option should give a benefit to the civilizations that are paying the tithe. It is my favorite resolution to spam when I'm the pope, and all the AI's love to vote for it, for some reason. Maybe, if you pay tithe to the Church. all of your cities receive +1 or 2 :) for 10 turns on normal speed, so that way, its not a complete loss for the tithers.
     
  10. MechatronicJazz

    MechatronicJazz Warlord

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    I like this. It reminds me of the Reformation event as well. I think it makes sense to still tie it to the Apostolic Palace resolution, but adding the choice on how to respond to the crusade would be a nice touch. I'm not sure if it should be a unit spawn, but I like the idea of some kind of effect tied to how many civs respond to the crusade.

    Alternatively, the existing resolution could be changed so that everyone who votes yes declares war (regardless of whether the resolution would pass), with a benefit tied to how many vote yes, and maybe a diplo hit for those who vote no.
     
  11. JHLee

    JHLee Prince

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    what's the point of passing a crusade in the AP if you can just ignore it?
     
  12. Louis the XIV

    Louis the XIV Sun King

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    Because think about it, Jerusalem has 2 holy shrines which bring in a lot of money. Wouldn't you want to conquer Jerusalem?
     
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  13. black213

    black213 Emperor

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    :cry:
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. Visard

    Visard Warlord

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    It's nice that now the Oracle gets obsoleted instead of hoarding one wonder slot for eternity.
    Maybe it could also have actual effect after it's construction.
    One priest slot would fit well.
     
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  15. Hickman888

    Hickman888 Warlord

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    Devils advocate: Part of the challenge of a Spanish historical game lies in spreading Catholicism to enough cities. If your newly founded cities were to start with your state religion, it would almost make that goal too easy. If that was addressed somehow, I think it would be great if new cities in the Renaissance and up were founded with a religion.
     
  16. BaneFire

    BaneFire Warlord

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    Lol I know that feel.
    However I kind of disagree with this suggestion, in a sense you can imagine that yes your colonies are still Christian, but you need to actively promote Catholicism as the state religion (otherwise religious heterodoxy will just run wild in your colonies!). Which is represented by ferrying missionaries over, or an equivalent being the Spanish crown sponsoring various monastic groups like the Dominicans and Franciscans throughout the New World.
     
  17. Caesar Augustus

    Caesar Augustus Prince

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    I agree with this conceptually but if the AI isn't willing/able to dedicate those resources there's a problem. Maybe some sort of religious analogue for the AI only conqueror armies? Or an Apostolic Palace "sponsor missionaries" vote?
     
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  18. ShinobiHus92

    ShinobiHus92 Chieftain

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    Personally having an crusade event in the game would be a great idea. It was a huge significant moment in Christian and Muslim history. I see some comments about that the crusaders states where only relevant for about a century but isn't the whole idea of this game to make you're own type of history?

    You can play as the Persians and with luck squash the Arabians and spread the Zoroastrian faith into the middle east. You can play as the Romans, survive the barbarians raid, fight of the remaining new Europeans civs, kill of the Byzantines and go on a colonial tour instead all the way to the modern world. You play as the Moors conquer past the iberian peninsula spread islam deeper into Europe. So what if you conquer Jerusalem and continue all the way to Egypt? Wasn't that what the Europeans at the time also wanted it? All these what ifs is what makes this game so fascinating. The fact that you can go ahistorical and make Christianity instead the dominant faith in the Middle East is fascinating to think about.

    So having this kinda event implemented in the game would be a really cool idea. The question now if it's realistic or possible of course. But that's my opinion :)
     
  19. Caesar Augustus

    Caesar Augustus Prince

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    I mean a successful, long-lasting Crusader State is just as possible right now as any of those other alt-history scenarios you listed. Like them, it does require you to work a bit for it, but I think that's preferable to just having it handed to you. The Apostolic Palace crusade vote is reasonably common, and even if that doesn't happen, or doesn't target Arabia or Turkey or whoever is holding Jerusalem, every single Catholic nation has the resources to launch an invasion of their own if that's what the player chooses. Heck, in my current Italy game, Poland of all places held on to Jerusalem for many hundreds of years. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a tweak to the AP that forces or increases the chances of a crusade vote against the owner of Jerusalem during the appropriate era, but I don't think that any big change is warranted.
     
  20. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    It's literally already part of the HRE UHV to do that.
     

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