Suggestions and Requests

[strijder20]

Spies shouldn't get teleported to capital after performing a mission, but just lose their preparation bonus. Reasons:

The micromanagement of moving spies to the right location is tedious when you play an espionage heavy game. Even more when you are an island nation.

This will make almost zero difference in terms of balance, since the limiting factor is EP and not amount of spies.

 

[Leoreth]

Maybe that should be a promotion. However I would agree to closest city over capital.

 

[citis]

Three suggestions I want to make:

Mercantilism: Trying to make this civic better than guilds in general case. I propose to change the effects as follows:
*+1 per workshop
*+1 domestic per city
(*the capital +25% may stay or not)

Guilds are still better for workshope production based economies or specialist economies. However, mercantilism becomes slightly better, because it doesn't kill the foreign trade routes.


Currency:
Italian, Greek, Phoenician and Middle eastern city states and kingdoms had currency before discovering mathematics. IMO the tech Mathematics represents geometry and more complex mathematical concepts. Currency requires only addition and subtraction, that are relatively simple. So

Currency: Requires writing and mining (coins require metals). Beakers equal to writing (or little more). Enables markets.
*Roman forum requires currency and aesthetics.

Trade routes:
Default trade routes are 0.
Palace:+1 trade route (represents ancient palace economy)
Currency: +1 trade route (so trade routes start to appear with currency)
Market: +1 trade route

the rest remains the same

 

[BenZL43]

I support your interpretation of Mathematics represent geometry and more complex math concept

 

[Daffy]

Three suggestions I want to make:

Mercantilism: Trying to make this civic better than guilds in general case. I propose to change the effects as follows:
*+1 per workshop
*+1 domestic per city
(*the capital +25% may stay or not)

Guilds are still better for workshope production based economies or specialist economies. However, mercantilism becomes slightly better, because it doesn't kill the foreign trade routes.


Currency:
Italian, Greek, Phoenician and Middle eastern city states and kingdoms had currency before discovering mathematics. IMO the tech Mathematics represents geometry and more complex mathematical concepts. Currency requires only addition and subtraction, that are relatively simple. So

Currency: Requires writing and mining (coins require metals). Beakers equal to writing (or little more). Enables markets.
*Roman forum requires currency and aesthetics.

Trade routes:
Default trade routes are 0.
Palace:+1 trade route (represents ancient palace economy)
Currency: +1 trade route (so trade routes start to appear with currency)
Market: +1 trade route

the rest remains the same

I only disagree about the point that currency requires coins/metal.
I don't really have an opion about the subject right now since I won't be playing much the next few weeks/months and this project does progress quite rapidly


I'd say it requires something more along the areas of craftsmanship and/or civil organisation
The 'basic' requirements would be something like:
It shouldn't be too easy to simply find/make yourself and it needs to be accepted by a wide range of different types of people as an object of value
No idea right now into which techs from civ4 this concept really fits as a prereq for currency though (I usually play 600AD or 1700AD scenarios)
Pottery, Monarchy?
Writing is already good. Maybe just that?

Example of a bad idea for use a currency:
(Taken from THHGTTG)

Spoiler :

The manager of the planet Fintlewoodlewix explains that “since we decided to adopt the leaf as legal tender, we have all of course become immensely rich. But we have run into a small inflation problem owing to high leaf availability. That means the current rate is something like three major deciduous forests buy one ship's peanut. In order to obviate this problem and revalue the leaf, we've decided on an extensive campaign of defoliation and burn down all the forests. I think that's a sensible move, don't you?”

Historical currency not based on 'metal':
(there are several, i just picked a few that i knew of straight away)

Spoiler :

http://www.xat.org/xat/moneyhistory.html

Consider the American Indians using Wampum, West Africans trading in decorative metallic objects called Manillas and the Fijians economy based on whales teeth, some of which are still legal tender; add to that shells, amber, ivory, decorative feathers, cattle including oxen & pigs, a large number of stones including jade and quartz which have all been used for trade across the world, and we get a taste of the variety of accepted currency.

Tally Sticks in medieval England
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tally_stick
Porcelain Money:
http://currencies.wikia.com/wiki/Porcelain

nowadays we even accept 'virtual money'

 

[Fresol]

Hi folks, how are you all doing! I know this is not the place to ask, but is there any DoC video clips available anywhere(e.g. on Youtube)?

I'm asking this because I havn't been playing DoC these days but I'm quite interested in knowing how the development goes and what is it like to be playing the game, only without playing it. I guess a typical DoC game takes too long to be recorded and you'd have to make a handful of S/Ls. So let me ask you this: what do you think is the best way to put DoC on video? I know there are videos of people playing BtS or RFC for hours out there, but is this the best way or the only way to put DoC on video?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I'm pretty sure I've seen some DoC Let's Plays on YouTube before.

 

[Fresol]

Oh that's great, is there any new ones?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

You can always, you know, search for them?

 

[Fresol]

Well.. yes? But the most recent on youtube is like a year ago. The point is, is anyone interested in making new ones? Or is there anyone who has done this in the past and is willing to give some pointers?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Anyway I want to repeat my point that watermills are severely underpowered in all eras. In the medieval era Agrarianism Farms + Guilds Workshops outperform them, later on it's Towns if you are Capitalist and Workshops if you are Communist. In what realistic scenario would you ever gain more from building them than from another improvement? Balance was fine before you removed their second commerce, why did you try to fix something that wasn't broken in the first place? At least reduce the time it takes to build them if you don't want to increase their yield.

 

[Fresol]

On Watermills the only time I build them is when I'm playing Soviet Russia, and I totally agree its building time is too long. Reducing the time required to build watermills should make it slightly more competitive to other improvements.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Giving them +1 Commerce with Engineering would solve everything, then they could barely keep up with Agrarianism Farms and Guilds Workshops and beat them when you don't have those civics as it should be with their longer building time. Post Electricity it would be as it was before Leoreth made this completely uncalled for and unbalancing nerf. I still can't fathom what could have possibly convinced him that removing their second commerce was a good idea.

 

[Leoreth]

You bring up a good point with the civics, I don't think were available when I made this change, at least not without more severe disadvantages associated with them. I think the main consideration was their competitiveness with lumber mills on forested river tiles. Which also might need to be changed to become available earlier.

You know how I work. I don't make a change as a knee jerk reaction to a post here, even if my first impulse is agreement. I need to have a look at the alternatives available and how best to arrange a situation where every improvement has its place.

But frankly I can live with the fact that watermills are useless until I get to that. There are more important things on my mind. My modding speed isn't very high right now, the female GP thing took up a lot of time with research and everything, and now that it's done I have more important things to get to such as bug fixes and Japan balance changes.

So making repetitive posts doesn't do anything but annoy me. I found the self-deprecating modmod much more charming really.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

You bring up a good point with the civics, I don't think were available when I made this change, at least not without more severe disadvantages associated with them. I think the main consideration was their competitiveness with lumber mills on forested river tiles. Which also might need to be changed to become available earlier.

You know how I work. I don't make a change as a knee jerk reaction to a post here, even if my first impulse is agreement. I need to have a look at the alternatives available and how best to arrange a situation where every improvement has its place.

But frankly I can live with the fact that watermills are useless until I get to that. There are more important things on my mind. My modding speed isn't very high right now, the female GP thing took up a lot of time with research and everything, and now that it's done I have more important things to get to such as bug fixes and Japan balance changes.

So making repetitive posts doesn't do anything but annoy me. I found the self-deprecating modmod much more charming really.

Agreed on moving Lumbermills back, and frankly Watermills should slightly outperform Lumbermills with regards to yield seeing as the latter give extra health and defense.

What do you mean self-deprecating? My modmod is the pinnacle of historical realism and simulation of complex macro-economic processes! Why, aren't you aware that the entire scientific community agrees that the prime reason for the Allied victory in WW II was their access to more Watermills than the Axis? Similarly the cause for the collapse of the Soviet Union was Gorbachev's foolish decision to replace most of them with cottages! And don't forget the various barbarians from Northern Europe out producing and steamrolling the once mighty Roman Empire with their greater number of Watermills! It is a historic constant: Across all times and places all of the great civilizations stood and fell with the number of their Watermills. You can't argue reality.

 

[strijder20]

Defence is more of a disadvantage than an advantage in your own lands though.

 

[2015]

If we don't get the yield from settling on a resource, why are some cities still on resources?

Like Lahore and Cairo are both on marble and Baghdad is on a stone. Isn't it a waste settling these cities because it means throwing away a good resource? Cairo I can understand, it's not supposed to be founded by Egypt but I think the game encourages the player to settle on Lahore. Even then, I think major cities shouldn't have resources below them without getting the yield

 

[Fresol]

Suggestion on changing how inquisition works:

• Reintroduce Inquisitors(national units) as units to replace Inquisition Projects
• Inquisitors can perform Inquisition on your own city, erasing 1 chosen non-state religion from that city, and reduce population of that city by 1, causing 3 unhappiness for 10 turns(just like enslaving), no city unrest
• Requires Divine Power to train Inquisitors and perform Inquisition
• Must be running Theocracy, Organized Religion or Fanaticism to train Inquisitors and perform Inquisition
• State religion must be present to train Inquisitors
• Inquisition has a chance to fail just like when spreading religions

And I have a more interesting suggestion:

• Same as above, but Inquisitions are performed by Missionaries of the state religion

My point is that Inquisitions are forced upon cities, instead of being some huge project the city has to work on which in the end brings nothing good to the city.

 

[ozqar]

Perhaps it would be also interesting if you could send inquisitors (or missionaries doing inquisitions) to foreign cities.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Suggestion on changing how inquisition works:

• Reintroduce Inquisitors(national units) as units to replace Inquisition Projects
• Inquisitors can perform Inquisition on your own city, erasing 1 chosen non-state religion from that city, and reduce population of that city by 1, causing 3 unhappiness for 10 turns(just like enslaving), no city unrest
• Requires Divine Power to train Inquisitors and perform Inquisition
• Must be running Theocracy, Organized Religion or Fanaticism to train Inquisitors and perform Inquisition
• State religion must be present to train Inquisitors
• Inquisition has a chance to fail just like when spreading religions

So you literally need the power of a god to be able to train Inquisitors?