Suggestions and Requests

[ezzlar]

I think the point is that the purpose of the game is to create some kind of challenge and by extension fun for the player, but I think at some point a game reaches a state where it's run its course and is essentially won.

Throwing someone into a civil war might be a new challenge in this case, but I'd rather err on the TD end of the spectrum and avoid throwing players into such a situation when they would only end up being irritated by it.

Maybe we need a disaster menu like in the SimCity series where people can ruin their own empire on demand

Yes. This. Disregard my previous comments and make the mod enjoyable!

 

[DarkLunaPhantom]

Also, a quick note on the Free Barb Wins topic earlier.
Ignoring the obvious factor in that in vanilla Civ4 you could FOGBUST Barbarians, as well as build the original Great Wall, I think we're forgetting the rubber here because at least in RFC and DoC, we have the perennial problem of BARBARIAN SHIPS being a near 50/50 trade, specialized Barb spawns near specific regions, as well as some civs (Aztecs, Egypt) that would die horribly in the event we remove free Barb wins for players. Think of the Aztecs, Leoreth.

Problem with ships could be mitigated by adding Disorganized promotion from K-Mod (-10% strength) to barb naval units.

 

[ezzlar]

Lumbermill (lumberjack) available with bronze working and +1 resources with replacable parts? Chopping forest available with r.p as well.

Heavy deforestation didnt happen until later in history. Like England during the age of ships?

 

[The Turk]

Lumbermill (lumberjack) available with bronze working and +1 resources with replacable parts? Chopping forest available with r.p as well.

Heavy deforestation didnt happen until later in history. Like England during the age of ships?

Heavy de-fore station came with clearing land for agriculture, well before massive ship building. By the High Middle Ages large tracts of land in Europe were being cleared.

 

[ezzlar]

But that seems far later than the discovery of bronze working?

 

[Leoreth]

About naval barbarians, I think it's better to just have more ship types available so you can build the counter to whatever they have.

 

[The Turk]

But that seems far later than the discovery of bronze working?

Sorry, I was speaking specifically about [North/North-Western] Europe. Large scale agriculture did not hit Albion until the coming of the "outsiders". Celtic society definitely farmed (see the Irish for example), but it was no where near the levels later on when entire forests were cut down for energy and space.

The general inefficiency of agricultural production, and the soaring population, meant larger and larger forests were cut down to make space for wide tracks of inefficient cropland.

The same is true wherever you had a mix of soaring population and forest. The need for farmland, in what little good arable land existed, meant destroying lush green areas. And copper (specifically with tin) = Bronze, and later an axe, which allowed for this to be done on a wider scale then ever before.

I don't have a good source on the topic, but check out this video (he is an archaeologist):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVPUFMwm73Y

 

[Force44]

To The Turk

Actually the link you mention tells the greatest extent of agricultural expansion on Britain happened during the bronze age which was roughly from 2100 BC untill 750BC (for Britain) *1
Isn't that is quite a bit of time before the celtic invasion of Brittain (about 500 bc) *2

sources
*1 Wikipedia Bronze age
*2 Woodlands Junior School Britain before the Romans

To me chopping of forests with bronze working seems legit. A different kind of forest removal (with a different tech and different benefits) would be a nice minor touch though.
eg. burning down forests for an improvement which would give a bonus to food gathered on the burnt forest tile for a couple of turns.

 

[The Turk]

To The Turk

Actually the link you mention tells the greatest extent of agricultural expansion on Britain happened during the bronze age which was roughly from 2100 BC untill 750BC (for Britain) *1
Isn't that is quite a bit of time before the celtic invasion of Brittain (about 500 bc) *2

sources
*1 Wikipedia Bronze age
*2 Woodlands Junior School Britain before the Romans

To me chopping of forests with bronze working seems legit. A different kind of forest removal (with a different tech and different benefits) would be a nice minor touch though.
eg. burning down forests for an improvement which would give a bonus to food gathered on the burnt forest tile for a couple of turns.

Well, more like a Celtic migration, but I will concede you that point. However what does need to be remembered, is that the exponential growth of the population in the High Middle Ages, put renewed stress on forests, and more agricultural land was again needed. This time of course in the 13/14th centuries, agriculture was a bit more efficient.

Arguably, it was the process of industrialization, and more specifically the enclosure acts, which privatized land (ending the practice of lands in "common"), and made the existing land more intensely used.

Also you had a class in Junior High on the topic of Britain before the Romans? huh?

 

[Ballazic]

To me chopping of forests with bronze working seems legit. A different kind of forest removal (with a different tech and different benefits) would be a nice minor touch though.
eg. burning down forests for an improvement which would give a bonus to food gathered on the burnt forest tile for a couple of turns.

Thats to much micro detail for this mod. You are losing sight of the forest in the trees .

 

[DarkLunaPhantom]

About naval barbarians, I think it's better to just have more ship types available so you can build the counter to whatever they have.

Yeah, that's a much better solution. I've always wondered why there's no more choice (rock-paper-scissors) in naval combat like there's in land combat in civ. Usually the player with most ships (of sufficient tech level) wins.

 

[Ballazic]

Yeah, that's a much better solution. I've always wondered why there's no more choice (rock-paper-scissors) in naval combat like there's in land combat in civ. Usually the player with most ships (of sufficient tech level) wins.

Two considerations though.

a) The AI really doesn't know how to use their navies very well. The best sort of naval engagements I have had with AI players are when things are pretty simple, ie an attack ship and a transport ship being available. My only concern is that if things get more complex it won't really be used by the AI (imho much like modern naval warfare in the game, how many times have you had naval engagements with carrier fleets, or cruisers and subs with missiles?)

b) Historical realism, there weren't a lot Rock Paper Scissor sort of options for navies in early naval warfare. A lot of came down to which navy had the most experienced mariners (the experience/promotion system covers that), and who had the resources to maintain a large fleet, and who could bear to lose a few ships in a larger engagement. Ofcourse their is a lot more to naval warfare then that (tactics, logistics etc) but that's really outside of the scope of both this game and this mod.

I like anyone gets frustrated with pirates who sink my pressure ships, but its choice a player has to make, do I invest the resources to keep my sea resources, and dominance, or do I allocate those resources elsewhere? If it were a lot easier than that, and the player didn't lose ships occasionally to piracy or the luck of their opponent, it would be way to easy. The AI really wouldn't know how to use the rock paper scissors system very well and it would be an advantage for the player only really. My two cents

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Would there be an interest in including this new mod of mine?

 

[merijn_v1]

I quite like it.

 

[Leoreth]

This is perfectly in line with my plans to make culture more useful. I will certainly look to scavenge what I need when I get around to that part of the game.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

This is perfectly in line with my plans to make culture more useful. I will certainly look to scavenge what I need when I get around to that part of the game.

Well it's just three XML tags plus the code to make them work, so unless you want to leave out one of the three bonuses completely for all culture levels it's just a matter of adjusting the specific values in XML to your liking.

Also the reason I'm asking is because I might as well just make a pull request of it.

 

[Leoreth]

That would affect savegame compatibility so now is not the right time.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

That would affect savegame compatibility so now is not the right time.

Well duh, I mean after the official release of version 1.14 of course.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Wait a minute...

Get rid of Shanghai as a potential city for China. Replace it with Nanjing or Suzhou. Shanghai, like "Tokyo", would not become important until the 20th century, before then it was a sleepy fishing village on the coast (no one built cities on the coast for good reason). Suzhou and Nanjing were far, far more important cities. Feel free to have them renamed to Shanghai later in the game, like Edo -> Tokyo, but frankly I don't think you need to, Shanghai only prospered as a European Treaty Port.

I know this post is a few days old, but I suddenly got the urge to respond to this specific part of it. If China supposedly had no coastal cities before European colonization, how in the world did they assemble Zheng He's treasure fleet?

 

[Panopticon]

Wait a minute...



I know this post is a few days old, but I suddenly got the urge to respond to this specific part of it. If China supposedly had no coastal cities before European colonization, how in the world did they assemble Zheng He's treasure fleet?

You are responding to a post that asserts the unimportance of Tokyo before 1900!