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Suggestions and Requests

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall: Europe' started by Publicola, Jun 11, 2015.

  1. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    can you also make it possible to grant independence to any of your cities one-by-one? usually you can give independence in cluster or liberate to sby.
     
  2. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    I'm not sure if it's a good idea, from a gameplay point of view:
    Do we really want to give that much power into the hands of the human player?
    Wouldn't it be an issue with the stability and city secession mechanics?
     
  3. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Well, I don't think it's entirely unrealistic to abandon a far-flung, difficult-to-control city/region in order to focus your efforts on the rest of your realm. Basically you'd be choosing which city you lose rather than it being more random, or risking a respawn.
     
    gilgames likes this.
  4. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    8,366
    I liked the survey of Lakes in RFCE added during the last commit. Would it be possible to code those names into the tooltip help, so mouse over Vanern Lake would reveal "Lake Vanern (Fresh)"?..
     
  5. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Alright, will take a look at it, and if it's not a too complex change, I might try to improve the current situation somehow.

    Thanks!
    Yeah, I plan to do that eventually.
    The only problem is that so far I didn't find an elegant way to it.
    Don't really want to hardcode all the lake coordinates in the .dll, would be much more preferred to be able to implement it in a way where it is possible to set it more dynamically.
     
  6. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Whew, wasn't easy, but figured out a nice way to do it, it is already up with the latest commit :)
    I'm quite statisfied with how the map information is shaping up with these names, and with the city name tooltip for settlers (which was added a couple weeks ago).
    Please report if there are any mistakes with the added names.
     
    El Bogus likes this.
  7. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

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    Dec 8, 2015
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    482
    Location:
    The Low Countries
    2 suggestions for scouting units (light cavalry).

    suggestion 1:
    Variable sight on scouting units.

    Set the sight of scouting units to the amount of moves they have left. (so, when moving, they have a sightradius of 3 at the beginning of their turn and 1 at the end of their turn)

    This will increase the length of the line of sight for scouting units by two, but only on the next turn.

    suggestion 2:
    Villages in the line of sight from scouting units reveal the location (and possibly the type) of the barbs that will spawn when said villages get pillaged (when said location also falls within the line of sight from the same scouting unit).
     
  8. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

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    Location:
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    Suggestion to make the spawn of barbarians from pillaging villages a bit harder to negate.

    Allow a second ring for barbs to spawn when villages get pillaged when no plot in the first ring is available.
     
  9. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

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    Suggestion for additional upgrade(s) (to be purchased with xp) for mercenary units.

    loyalty (I to IV)

    (prerequisite: mercenary)

    - reduces the cost to maintain mercenaries. (further elaboration under spoiler)

    loyalty I -40% (mercenary cost per turn)
    loyalty II -70%
    loyalty III -90%
    loyalty IV -100%

    Spoiler :
    I really like the idea of mercenaries being transformed into regular units over time.
    They usually are a bit stronger than the units you can build with hammers.
    Both in ability (stats and/or upgrades) and availability (they have no building time, although money not spent yet can be seen as building time for mercs). So it is only fair that they cost a bit more than the run of the mill unitis you produce yourself.

    When keeping them around, after a while the cons start to outweigh the pro's.
    Downtime (through healing or sentry duty) is very costly.
    Every combat they win makes them more expensive.

    Originally I liked the idea of a great general taking the merc upgrade away (the mercs would love to fight under the guide of a great hero so much they forfeit further additional pay).
    But this puts the regular units at an unfair disadvantage to get attached to a great general.
    So my second thought was to let every upgrade the mercs receive at their purchase be accompanied by an additional merc upgrade that could be removed with buying away that mercupgrade.

    example:

    a merc that starts with the four upugrades combat III and amphibious also gets the upgrade mercenary IV

    After victory in combat the merc is allowed to pick another level.

    The merc is now allowed to purchase mercenary III which reduces the cost from mercenary four to the cost of mercenary three.

    When the unit buys away mercenary I they no longer have an additional cost associated to maintaining the unit.

    nb. The unit could also buy combat IV but since the cost of maintaining mercenary units is tied to their mercenary upgrade this would not increase their maintenance cost further.

    I actually like this idea better than the idea posted in the main section of this post because it scales directly proportionally to the power of the merc.
    And it also allows upgrading mercs without making them outrageous expensive (personally I like this but a case can be made against this implementation to achieve that goal)
    But I figure it is conceptually a bit harder.
     
    El Bogus and gilgames like this.
  10. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

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    Location:
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    Suggestion for additional town 1 tile southeast of the starting location of the French.

    With the additional pop and free granary the starting location of Paris is so good it puts the other tiles to shame.

    You might found a city northeast for eventual superior production in the timeframe between having compensated for free granary and +1 population and having researched and built watermills but for the first UHV I consider this more of a handicap than a boon.

    The city southeast has (initial) inferior production but acces to two cities. That is a lot of commerce.
    If that location would start with and additional population and a free granary that locationtion would be an interesting alternative for the first city.
    (probably still not as good objectively when considering that your first priority is production of additional units)

    Stabilitywise it would tie down another unit to defend the additional townplot (unless you sacrifice your starting scout), but I consider this a good thing because it decreases desirability of the for the original location of Paris, thereby increasing the desirability of the other spots.

    I am aware though that this is kind undesirable for beginning players, so I would argue to remove that additional town on the lowest difficulty level.

    Arguably founding cities on towns could be nerfed or overhauled to achieve the same effect, but in this instance I think I like solving a problem with adding another good thing over taking away a bad side effect better.
     
  11. El Bogus

    El Bogus Chieftain

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    Location:
    Leipzig, Germany
    In my opinion, there should not be a strong alternative for your capital (they do already exist for some civs - Bulgaria comes to mind). The player should have a good motive to settle the capital on the starting spot and not overthink the very first move. In vanilla RFC, it always bothered me that Korinth was better than Athens, for example. It should not feel like a mistake to play having the intended capital.
     
  12. Swarbs

    Swarbs Chieftain

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    Maybe some reorganisation of Flanders, Holland and Picardy provinces is needed? At the moment there is often not a city built in Flanders, which means it can take a stupid amount of conquering, razing and rebuilding for Burgundy or Germany to meet their conquest UHV. Possibly extending Flanders south, or merging Flanders and Picardy so Flanders isn't such an awkward shape?

    Out of interest, where is the historic city supposed to be in Flanders?
     
    cmakk1012 likes this.
  13. cmakk1012

    cmakk1012 Chieftain

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    Having recently played Germany and Burgundy recently, I agree that Flanders is an awkward province. I just covered it with culture as Burgundy and as Germany built a city there just before the deadline. It just doesn't make sense to have a city there with the current layout.
     
  14. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

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    For the first attempt to play that civilization. I absolutely agree.
    For about the first forty turns of every attempt to play that civilzation. I agree.
    For every turn on subsequent plays beyond the first forty turns. I probably also agree.

    But I do like it when there are multiple options to achieve the same goal.
    In this instance the choice is between food (original location Paris, imo the best) production (1 ne of original location Paris, viable) and commerce (1 se of original location of Paris, a severe handicap compared to the other two options).
    I would like the spot to be upgraded from severly handicapped to viable.
    With the recent increase of starting units (currently 4 archers, 4 axemen and a scirmisher) France can spare a unit to guard another tile.
    And this more Southern setup would allow for different strategies (right now it is really hard to not let barb spearmen fight your battles for you to deal with the initial defenders of Milan and Augsburg.)

    That the city of Hoff falls under severe barbarian pressure after liberally razing unclaimed towns imo is kind of just. I tend to look upon an alternative spot to settle, 1 se of the original location of Paris, as an option to evade the injustice of angry barbarians capturing or razing the innocent independent nearby city because they lack the artificial intelligence to go around that city to punish the true culprit.

    In summary:
    I agree that the intended capital should guide you, not distract you. But besides guidance I also like freedom (to explore different options without feeling I am making a rather big mistake)

    If I really want to I could always cheat the town in myself on the very first turn. So there is no actual urgent need for this minor map change. But then again I really like how Absinthered interacts with the community playing the mod, so I am hesitant to cheat in that way because I feel it would invalidate the feedback I could give back when I stumble upon it. So I guess I should refine my request a bit:

    Could the additional village 1 se of the original location of Paris be added in the SVN (in development) version of the mod for a while? Just to see what games with that additional village look like.
    (after all, it might be a terrible idea leading to a runaway French civilization due to early availability of an excessive amount of commerce)
     
  15. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    I agree, province borders should be updated in that area too.
    Won't start on province updates for 1.5 though.
     
  16. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Thanks, but I don't plan to implement anything like this. Villages mainly represent historic urban spots on the map. Gameplay reasons are only secondary here, as civs' commerce output can be balanced with many other things.
    Furthermore, in principle I also agree with this post here:
    So I usually try to make capital spots very strong, or at least stronger than the neighbouring ones.
     
  17. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    This won't really worth the work on it, as Scout units are already outdated in 500AD.
    For a couple times I even considered removing them altogether.
    Wait, so you say no barbs will appear if you move a friendly unit to all adjacent tiles of the pillaged village?
    If yes, then it is surely unintentional by the developers of Civ IV.

    Still, I think if you spend the time and energy to move all those units there, you can probably get that barb-free pillage :)
    In fact, you probably loose way more in opportunity cost, especially when going for the French 1st UHV or another similarly tight-paced one.
     
  18. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Cool idea to have some kind of a loyalty promotion line, put it on my todo list.
    It's position is rather close to the end of it though :mischief:
    Still, it will probably make it to the mod at some point
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  19. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

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    The issue mostly arises when playing as Byzantium.

    I send out a stack of three or four scouts to pillage improvements far away (three so it takes only one turn to pillage and they still have two moves left to get away from the pillaged barbarians and the fourth to secure an escape to a safe spot)

    spoiler under spoiler
    Spoiler :
    Those poor poor Bulgarians don't stand a chance against 9-18 spearmen pillaged from the future Hungarian lands.

    And when I return that very same stack of four is almost always sufficient to block the villages next to my borders from spawning barbs.
    (not only units, but also water (lakes & coast), mountains and borders prevent some of the eight elegible plots from receiving the spawn.)

    Like the the setup of French cities to effectuate the barbarian conquest of Augsburg and Milan it is a lot of fun the first time, but it feels gamey on subsequent playthroughs. I'll consider it an exploit and shall refrain from using it in the future ...too much.

    summary:
    The opportunity cost is not that high. It takes one scout five turns to pillage and get away safely. And it takes four scouts only one turn, with the additional benefit of more concentrated barbarians to fight your neighbours.
     
  20. Swarbs

    Swarbs Chieftain

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    The Hungarian Vegvar (castle UB) seems OP in some cases. When playing as Spain and trying to conquer cities from Protestant Hungary to make them convert to Catholicism, I moved a stack of about 30-40 units next to a city with a Vegvar. Next turn half of them were gone and the others were massively damaged.

    Maybe tone down its damage impact a bit, as that level of destruction was quite unbalancing and close to game breaking.
     

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