Sun Pope
Warlord
Alright, well, let's just see how it goes. Is everyone ok with Winning a War as a Trigger for WLTKD in all cities , and having bonus production during them? And what should the bonus production be? 15%? 30%? 50%?
Sumer - CBP Compatable Custom Civs
- Thread starter Sun Pope
- Start date
WLTKD isn't that uncommon, 15% would probably be fine. or 10% production and 10% something else.
Sun Pope
Warlord
Sounds good to me. If we do 10% something else, I'm thinking Culture or Science
But I have bad news, apparently the aztec war victory conditions trigger are handled strictly through dll, which as we all probably know, can cause all sorts of nightmares when tampered with. I'm going to see if I can script the trigger for a war victory, but it's looking like capturing a city for the first time is going to be much more possible as a trigger
Hey, we went with the win a war thing just because you said it would be easier, if it isn't easier we'll just go with something else.
Sun Pope
Warlord
Yeah, I was wrong. Shocking, I know 
But on city capture should be very easy to code, but given my track record, I could be wrong again. I'm 100% sure it's possible, though.
Given that capturing a city is much more common, should we go back to making it trigger WLTKD just in the capital?
But on city capture should be very easy to code, but given my track record, I could be wrong again. I'm 100% sure it's possible, though.
Given that capturing a city is much more common, should we go back to making it trigger WLTKD just in the capital?
Just in capital effects are boring, imho.
A short duration effect in all cities might be preferable, but short effects are also pretty boring.
By the way, the palace have a trigger for a historic event on won wars, is that also hardcoded in that DLL thing (no idea what I'm talking about).
Sun Pope
Warlord
Well for the dll thing, I'd assume yes, as I don't see any script for it. In fact I think Historic Events as a whole are dll only
I have no preference on whether to do just the capital or a small one in each city. i will say that doing just the capital will be slightly simpler, though not enough for me to shy away from all cities.
Some cons which translates into pros for the other side I guess.
Longer(assuming 20 turns) WLTKD in the Capital:
Reverse scaling with empire growth, if you're OCC, you're getting WLTKD in 100% of your cities meaning that 100% of your excess food gets amplified and 100% of your hammers gets amplified, if you're in a 20 city empire, capturing a city would give you WLTKD in 5% of your cities, at this point the capital is probably producing more excess food and hammers than your other cities, but it's still going to be a way smaller part of the whole empires output than in the first scenario.
Capturing multiple cities in quick succession and you're essentially just stacking more WLTKD on top of each-other, if conquest continues you're essentially not getting any benefits out of the UA at all as you never really move closer to losing the WLTKD.
Shorter(assuming 5 turns) WLTKD in all cities.
5 turns is pretty much not enough to get anything done, it's mostly just going to result in a bunch of spam from the game saying that cities entered and exited WLTKD.
Since you lose to ability to trigger a normal WLTKD while you're in a WLTKD you're probably going to run into situations where you don't want certain cities to get a short WLTKD, because you could secure whatever luxury was required within a few turns and get a full length WLTKD instead.
Sun Pope
Warlord
Easy fix, make all cities start a normal WLTKD on city capture. Too op?
Definitely.
Sun Pope
Warlord
well, we could compromise. 7 turns in all cities?
If not, a small one in all cities seems to have less downsides to me. if only there were a way to trigger a normal Wltkd in cities when they have an event one and add it to the length
If not, a small one in all cities seems to have less downsides to me. if only there were a way to trigger a normal Wltkd in cities when they have an event one and add it to the length
Why isn't anything ever easy?
7 turns in all cities might be too much.
Any other ideas of triggers that aren't war-related?
Sun Pope
Warlord
I'll just list all of the GameEvents I know of in lua:
Adopt a Policy
City Founded
Tech researched
City Capture
Finding Natural Wonder
Ending/Declaring War (not really a way to determine who wins without a significant amount of logic lines)
There are most likely more, I just haven't used or seen them before. We could just have the long WLTKD on declaring war, but that seems too exploitable by players. Adopting Social policies would work too, but I'm actually saving that for another civ
but of course, I'll come off it to help out Ol' Gilgy.
We already talked about settling cities as a trigger is not a great idea. Finding a Natural wonder doesn't make sense, and researching a tech is too common. There's probably a way to script entering a new era as a trigger, that could work too.
Adopt a Policy
City Founded
Tech researched
City Capture
Finding Natural Wonder
Ending/Declaring War (not really a way to determine who wins without a significant amount of logic lines)
There are most likely more, I just haven't used or seen them before. We could just have the long WLTKD on declaring war, but that seems too exploitable by players. Adopting Social policies would work too, but I'm actually saving that for another civ
but of course, I'll come off it to help out Ol' Gilgy. We already talked about settling cities as a trigger is not a great idea. Finding a Natural wonder doesn't make sense, and researching a tech is too common. There's probably a way to script entering a new era as a trigger, that could work too.
I'll just list all of the GameEvents I know of in lua:
Adopt a Policy
City Founded
Tech researched
City Capture
Finding Natural Wonder
Ending/Declaring War (not really a way to determine who wins without a significant amount of logic lines)
There are most likely more, I just haven't used or seen them before. We could just have the long WLTKD on declaring war, but that seems too exploitable by players. Adopting Social policies would work too, but I'm actually saving that for another civ
We already talked about settling cities as a trigger is not a great idea. Finding a Natural wonder doesn't make sense, and researching a tech is too common. There's probably a way to script entering a new era as a trigger, that could work too.
The Viable trigger here would be adopting a policy, but I guess switching eras could work.
Would it be possible to randomize a city (that's not in WLTKD) to trigger WLTKD on city capture?
Otherwise you could have some kind of weird combo, a medium length WLTKD in the capital on city-capture (maybe longer on capital capture?) and a medium(or long?) WLTKD in all cities when you switch eras?
Sun Pope
Warlord
Hm... advancing an era and capturing a city together seems too complicated, especially when we add our pop and worker to the description. It does seem balanced, but if there's a simpler way, lets take that. I suppose it is possible to randomise the city that gets the WLTKD (and to only pick from ones already not in WLTKD). It could work, If we're ok with RNGesus deciding half of the UA (then again, France is in the same boat and it seems like theyre in a decent spot). Social Policies granting WLTKD to me seems balanced, but not thematic at all.
So, lets go over some options again (all of these give extra prod in WLTKD):
1. Social Policy -> normal WLTKD in all cities
2. Capture a City -> normal WLTKD in a random city
3. Advance and Era -> normal WLTKD in all cities
My vote right now is leaning towards RNGesus. Simply because war fits Sumer the best out of the three
Also: WE NEED A NAME FOR THE UA. Someone come up with something cool and SUmerian sounding, or anything mesopotamian really.
"The Bull of Heaven" is a nice reference to the Epic of Gilgamesh, and captures Gilgamesh's relationship with the gods quite well.
Could also go with 'Enuma Elish,' which is the name of the creation mythos at the heart of Sumerian mythology.
G
Sun Pope
Warlord
Praise the Sun. Both of these are awesome. I like Enuma Elish
Enuma Elish was the name of Gilgamesh's ultimate attack/weapon in Fate/Stay night(/Zero as well, so I second it
By the way 'the bull' had a name
"Gugalanna"Sun Pope
Warlord
So, what do you guys think about a random city getting WLTKD on a city capture? And how long should it be? 10 turns probably?
If that's the only thing you're getting, 20 turns seems more reasonable.
