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Tomatekh's Sumer for VP

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by pineappledan, Mar 27, 2018.

  1. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    v18 incoming:
    removed scaling from UA. Flat 1 production from game start (was always the intended design, so that Sumer feels more strongly like an early snowball only)
    Changed the code for adding the dummy policy used in the UA. Should be more stable.
     
  2. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    My opinion of current Sumer:
    • It's way too hot outside, nerf the heat of the summer right now, it's not balanced. Why did you even allow this?
    • Eduba is not a thing I really care for much, but it's convenient with the Food.
    • Chariot is not too good, but upgraded to Knight it does start having a point - the free pillage does something. However, in some flat land cases I'd rather have Chariot Archers, but then with how the civ works you can get the Skirmishers fast.
    • Vulture works fine, nice for demanding tributes and weakening opponents. Pretty good UU.
    • Ziggurats are pretty good, ez founding especially with a faith-strong pantheon.
    • -1 Happiness per specialist patch has done some of the wide UA benefits ugly, but this doesn't have much impact nor is it overly hurtful, the ball is the main feature
    Over all, early ball with some holding power. I started next to Corals (+2:c5science: monopoly) and got a super fast monopoly with Workboats, founded with God of the Sea and I am balling indeed. Early wars give a lot for this civ, might as well go nuts.

    Some Ziggies seem a bit weird. +Specialist beliefs in particular feel bad now if the alternative Faith sources (like Oases, mountains) aren't good. Can't even afford to work the guy in most cases... My capital with Mendicancy/Fealty Internal routes can, some rare cities might, but anything else typically has problems working the ones acquired through legal, building means. The slot has value, but I'd rather not merely hope that the city will in the future be able to afford it, it's better to take the Ziggy that does work immediately.
     
  3. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  4. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  5. Guynemer

    Guynemer King

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    Unsure to qualify this as "feature" or "bug", but if you build the Oracle in a city that already has a ziggurat, you get to pick another temple bonus.

    Fun civ to play. Vulture is powerful, starts with a promotion, and cheap to upgrade, a good UU. The food bonus is nice. The onager is... fine. A mobile spear that isn't weak to other spears, but also isn't strong vs. other skirmisher types. The headline here if the free pillaging, which is nice synergy with Nergal. I wasn't sure what to expect with the ziggies; I was surprised when I only got four choices with each one, but usually one was relevant to that particular city. Not sure how much of that is randomized. Eduba is good for food; that, combined with Vulture, and the specialist bonus, point Sumer towards Tradition play. While the other half of the UA points towards Progress, and your proposed revisal would make Authority somewhat viable as well, I feel these token offerings towards non-Tradition openers are generally for naught.
     
  6. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Oracle allows you to "reroll" your ziggurat. I intentionally put that in a feature. There are 16 ziggurats in total, 4 sets of 4 event options, chosen randomly. Each has 1 ziggurat which requires a specific prerequisite in order to be picked (must have a mountain, must be coastal, etc.)

    In combination with my civ rework on Spain, which unstacks Spain from the claim/conquer yields, I think that gives me more reason to revisit that proposal.
     
  7. Guynemer

    Guynemer King

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    I think that is a good choice for the Oracle, a nice little surprise.

    Even with the proposed UA change, I think the majority of the bonus still points strongly towards Tradition, though that might be my own inherent bias for that playstyle coloring my judgment. It would at least make Authority an option, much like your Spain tweak made Tradition or Progress an option for Izzy.

    Regardless, a very fun civ, interesting gameplay.

    Question, not regarding Sumer specifically: While I've been testing your additional civs one by one, I've kept the other ones (Inuit, Canada, Nubia, and Khmer so far) activated. Not once in any of my tests has one of these civs shown up as one of my opponents; is that just some bad luck with the RNG, or do I have to actually specifically pick them as an opponent?

    Lastly, anyone else you're looking for some new feedback on, with either the modded civs or the base 3/4UC?
     
  8. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  9. Guynemer

    Guynemer King

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    (I was hoping you'd say Tlingit, I've been interested in them ever since I took a trip to Alaska twenty years ago, I love their artwork)

    I'll get cracking on that sometime this weekend, after I explore Disco Elysium some more.
     
    pineappledan likes this.
  10. hokath

    hokath King

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    Did you change it to "Every time Sumer gains a city" in the end?
    If you have, how does it deal with the production bonus given that a conquered city will be in revolt, does it hold onto it until afterwards or is it lost?
     
  11. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  12. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  13. Guynemer

    Guynemer King

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    That's...probably warranted. It was nearly a free monument on settle previously. I'll miss that nice burst of science too, but Sumer was probably deserving of a nerf, and this maintains the most interesting part of the kit, the Ziggies.
     

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