Support Our Troops?

Yet even you were worried that many of the homophobic bigots might suddenly want to leave the military and endanger our supposed mission in Afghanistan for merely rescinding DADT.

I felt there was reason for concern, yes, but the impact of rescinding DADT has been more minor that most anticipated - not for the reasons you think. Mostly because it didnt really change anything from how we were already operating on a day to day basis in that relatively few gay troops 'came out' as a result.

If the military is actually actively trying to get rid of all the racists and the bigots as you allege with no actual proof, they are certainly doing a terrible job of it.

I'm referencing the number of courts martials (which number in the thousands yearly) and administrative discharges (which number in the 10s of thousands yearly) that are simply a factual record of proof. Those statistics are kept by the various military departments so if you want to actually find the truth of the matter, feel free. I dont have to. I work those issues every single day.

And it clearly hasn't occurred on the same scale that racists and bigots have been removed from police forces in the past few decades. If it had been, it would be "easily verified" by the tens of thousands of sudden discharges which would have occurred as a result.

This is why your comments are uninformed because we simply dont take action like that without proof. The one making assumptions with no real proof is you. And yes, i'm sure you can go to some conspiracy website and pull out a few exceptions as you always do, but thats still not proof of the issues you allege.


Just as racism in our society and all over the world is still 'alive and well'. Isolated incidents aside, surely you understand that we cant ever eliminate all racism. But the US military is probably one of the most racially diverse entities around and brings people from all kinds of backgrounds together. Given that, its a wonder we dont have an even bigger problem of it.
 
Which of course isn't the same as saying there isn't a problem.
 
In the interests of moving this debate away from the Rememberance Day thread, I thought I'd start one to contain the discussion which is developing over the morality of military action, military service, and the military as a concept.

I've copied in some of the more relevant talking points: should we respect people for having served in the military, or gone to war? Should they be blamed for the horrors and the (inevitable?) atrocities of war? Should we respect our enemies just as much as we honour our own fallen?
Interesting idea. I'm a bit late to the thread, but I'd like to chime in, as a US Veteran/peacenick.

I honestly don't see what makes veterans so special. I don't want them "fighting for my freedom", I want those people that are now dead because of them to still be alive.
Um, so, we shouldn't have killed the Germans, led by the Nazis, in WW2?
What would you have recommended? Losing your freedom?

I agree with the assertion that the west is WAY to willing to throw the troops in the mix to enforce their will... however, there are clear cut cases where it was the right thing to do.

The ruling class should be blamed, not the rank and file veterans. Most of whom still think they are indeed fighting for our freedoms and don't understand that wars like Iraq do no such thing.
Time old tradition, those in power send the sons of those not in power to do the fighting. See the Civil War for a clear example... how many slave owners were in the rebel infantry? How many non-slave owners? But, those in power appealed to the non-owners through fear-mongering, etc.

This will never stop happening... it's just onto different issues these days... on either side of any conflict out there.

Serving in the armed forces would be an honorable thing if they armed forces were not continually used for bad motives. It is honorable to protect your nation/community, but not honorable to take part in the invasion of other countries.
Well, if we had crystal balls, we could avoid it... but you say an oath, and if you're in when a terrible president decides to invade country X, you're going.

Do you respect the people that carried out the 9/11 attacks?
The people who purposely targeted civilians? No. Completely different.
 
I think it is ALWAYS acceptable. If he's doing something immoral, he's doing something immoral. I won't kill innocent people whoever tells me to do it, even if its "Legal."
Therein lay the question...
Was the invasion of Iraq "legal"? "Moral"?
Bottom line, if you are going to say no, you'd better have a very strong case, it needs to be clear cut, not just a matter of opinion. The prevailing judgment, from my understanding, is that you deciding on if something is moral or not isn't on the macro level, but the micro...
Like, I was ordered to burn this village to the ground, I'd better not do that...
Or, I was ordered to kill this person to set an example, better not...

Vs...

We've decided as a nation, led by the President, we're invading X... but I don't think we should.
 
As a country, not a nation. The Navajo and other aboriginal tribes are separate nations.
 
"Nation" means pretty much whatever you want it to mean. It doesn't have any legal standing.
 
^Exactly. You decide it as a state, country, or whatever other legal entity. But not as a 'nation', which is a sociological/anthropological concept.
 
Still waiting for the relevance of the hair splitting here... Even in the sense of "nation" as you seem to think it can only be used as, it could still be a proper statement... so, next?

There are often more than one definition to words... How many nations in the United Nations?
 
And there you go again, misuse of the 'nation' from the imperialist centrist days when the same was done in Europe.
But we digress.

To get back on topic, something about poppies:
Spoiler :
War is never glorious, so why we do we bully those who protest against poppy culture?, by James Bloodworth

The surest way of finding oneself on the wrong side of our moral enforcers is, with words or with actions, to have caused a sacred group or individual of great national esteem “offence”.

From this starting point your fate is very much dependent upon whom it is you have had the misfortune to upset. Celebrities are generally fair game, as are politicians. Sport is a little more complicated, with footballers deemed worthy of a good proverbial kicking but Olympians for some reason beyond reproach. The police and the military, however, well – when it comes to “Bobbies” or “Our Boys” you can collectively bid adieu to every vestige of proportion, reason and restraint.

It is of little surprise, then, to learn that a furore has erupted over a decision by University of London Union (ULU) Vice-President Daniel Cooper to decline an invitation to lay a wreath at Sunday’s Remembrance Service, with fellow students and conservative commentators calling on Cooper to resign.

In his letter to the organisers, Cooper described the service as a commemoration that “doesn’t fit with” the “colossal loss of life, misery and suffering…[that] took place in WW1”.

In response, a former UCL student has described Copper as having “brought shame on himself and the 120,000 students he is supposed to represent”.

“The whole point of Remembrance Day as we know it today is to cast politics aside and pay tribute to the courage, bravery and selflessness of those in uniform both past and present,” Richard Pass writes.

An online petition has also been started to get Cooper removed from his position at the university.

I can’t say that I agree with the decision not a lay a wreath, mainly because I struggle to see how the idea of remembrance can be based selectively on “good” or “bad” wars. In most instances the argument rages over whether or not a war was just long after hostilities have ceased and troops have been brought home; therefore it’s perhaps best simply to put politics to one side and pay your respects.

That said, Sunday’s Remembrance Service, decked out as it was with royalty and establishment figures, was not in any sense apolitical, and Cooper’s refusal to lay a wreath has, if nothing else, punctured the aura of smug credence that for many years has been allowed to re-write the history of Britain at war – and more specifically the loss of life during the First World War.
The racket of war

Before you throw a grenade at your laptop, I’d like first of all to make one thing clear: I’m no pacifist. I believe that non-violence is an immoral position that by its very nature is reliant upon braver and more responsible individuals doing violence on one’s behalf. I believe that pacifism is, as George Orwell put it, “an illusion due to security, too much money and a simple ignorance of the way in which things actually happen”.

I am aware, however, that war is very often a racket. Harry Patch, the soldier who fought in World War One and died three years ago as the last remaining, actually witnessed the slaughter of the “Great War”, and unlike those who wear their combat fatigues vicariously, described the conflict as nothing more than “organised murder”.

The poet Siegred Sasson also wrote penetratingly on the lacerating effect the First World War had on men who in many cases had only recently graduated from short trousers and bed wetting:

Lines of grey muttering faces, masked with fear,

They leave their trenches, going over the top,

While time ticks blank and busy on their wrists,

And hope, with furtive eyes and grappling fists,

Flounders in mud. O Jesus, make it stop!

An elementary truth, often buried underneath all the emotive verbiage about soldiers “defending our freedoms”, is that most of the 16 million killed in the First World War were working people killed in a sordid imperial scramble for resources. That’s it. There was nothing heroic, nor liberating, about perishing face down in a trench full of excrement in Flanders. Britain went to war as part of “a scramble for colonial possessions, markets and resources amongst the major nations”, as Cooper puts it in his letter. Those fortunate enough to survive the ensuing bloodbath were made unquestionably aware of that when they returned home to a Britain beset by misery, squalor and paupery. The pomp and jingoism, the endless processions and evocation of national pride, was little more than the smirk on the corpse, as subsequent attempts at revolution by a war-weary European working class went on to demonstrate.

The establishment likes to inform us that those who perished in the First World War died for our right to live in a free society. We may reflect, then, on whether a fitting legacy to the fallen is for subsequent generations to be bullied into conforming to a very limited notion of remembrance on behalf of those who were themselves bullied into fighting what can be described, accurately for once, as a rich man’s war.

An appropriate remembrance service truly fit for the dead might one day include a disclaimer detailing the lies those young men and women, packed off to war by a British establishment bloating and sating itself at home - and an establishment which was later to make every attempt at crawling up the backside of Hitler - were told. Until then, we should defend the right of people like Daniel Cooper to let their conscience decide the matter.
(Dommy'll probably agree with me, something of a first, really).
 
Yeah, you're making a great point... those filthy Europeans used to say that!
Webster says:
Na´tion
n. 1. (Ethnol.) A part, or division, of the people of the earth, distinguished from the rest by common descent, language, or institutions; a race; a stock.
All nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues.
- Rev. vii. 9.
2. The body of inhabitants of a country, united under an independent government of their own.
A nation is the unity of a people.
- Coleridge.
Praise the power that hath made and preserved us a nation.

Get over it. Words can have more than one meaning, it was used perfectly well, stop trying to enforce some personal dictionary on people.
 
Um, so, we shouldn't have killed the Germans, led by the Nazis, in WW2?
What would you have recommended? Losing your freedom?
Why is it always WW2 that is brought up? Ok, the one example where American imperial interests coincided with some greater good, still doesn't make me happy about war, or about the millions of people unnecessarily killed. It's not like I don't support American troops but I was all for the Nazis. WW2 is in fact a perfect example of why we shouldn't have militaries.

Yes in a world with as many weapons and powerful militaries as ours requires a basic ability to defend ourselves, but the current state of the US military, the institution that the veterans we're supposed to respect served, hardly fits that criteria. They are in fact what's making the world so dangerous in the first place.

The people who purposely targeted civilians? No. Completely different.
No it isn't. They were people who were fighting against what they saw to be a great evil. They were merely fighting for what they thought was right. The US military has been responsible for many many times as many civilian casualties as them.
 
The US military has been responsible for many many times as many civilian casualties as them.

Thats ever been the case in war, regardless of the country. And fwiw, the US military has cut down by a magnitude the number of civilian casualties that used to occur as a result of war via smart/targeted munitions and more strict Rules of Engagement (RoE). In both the Iraq and Afghanistan war the vast, vast majority of civilian casualties werent because of the USA, but rather because those we were fighting would target civilians specifically to spread fear and terror and to discourage civilians from working with us.
 
Thats ever been the case in war, regardless of the country. And fwiw, the US military has cut down by a magnitude the number of civilian casualties that used to occur as a result of war via smart/targeted munitions and more strict Rules of Engagement (RoE). In both the Iraq and Afghanistan war the vast, vast majority of civilian casualties werent because of the USA, but rather because those we were fighting would target civilians specifically to spread fear and terror and to discourage civilians from working with us.

Have any data to confirm such claims?:rolleyes:

Btw, does it ever hurt knowing your candidate for president lost even after all that right wing rhetoric you kept spraying? :lol:
 
But we must always remember that it takes two to fight...

As a Catholic schoolboy I remember the nuns using that same logic to punish both the bully and his victim after a beating...:sad:
 
Well, there's a logic to that. How would they sort out who was to blame? "It was him started it". "No it was him". Punish them both is right.

As a docker, I remember, being involved in a fight was an offence punishable by instant dismissal. One of the few that were, iirc.
 
Which of course isn't the same as saying there isn't a problem.
Indeed. As usual, Mobboss is yet again trying to rationalize and defend the indefensible by even claiming that even he is personally helping to lead a crusade to make the US military a far better place. A military which he even claimed he would possibly leave himself if DADT was ever rescinded.

At least the Obama administration is finally taking steps to deal with the the overt white supramacists who even publicly expressed their racist opinions during the GWB administration while being largely ignored:

U.S. Military Battling White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis In Its Own Ranks

r-US-MILITARY-RACISM-large570.jpg


FAYETTEVILLE, N.C., Aug 21 (Reuters) - They call it "rahowa" - short for racial holy war - and they are preparing for it by joining the ranks of the world's fiercest fighting machine, the U.S. military.

White supremacists, neo-Nazis and skinhead groups encourage followers to enlist in the Army and Marine Corps to acquire the skills to overthrow what some call the ZOG - the Zionist Occupation Government. Get in, get trained and get out to brace for the coming race war.


If this scenario seems like fantasy or bluster, civil rights organizations take it as deadly serious, especially given recent events. Former U.S. Army soldier Wade Page opened fire with a 9mm handgun at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin on Aug. 5, murdering six people and critically wounding three before killing himself during a shootout with police.

The U.S. Defense Department as well has stepped up efforts to purge violent racists from its ranks, earning praise from organizations such as the Southern Poverty Law Center, which has tracked and exposed hate groups since the 1970s.

Page, who was 40, was well known in the white supremacist music scene. In the early 2000s he told academic researcher Pete Simi that he became a neo-Nazi after joining the military in 1992. Fred Lucas, who served with him, said Page openly espoused his racist views until 1998, when he was demoted from sergeant to specialist, dis charged and barred from re-enlistment.

While at Fort Bragg, in North Carolina, Page told Simi , he made the acquaintance of James Burmeister, a skinhead paratrooper who in 1995 killed a black Fayetteville couple in a racially motivated shooting. Burmeister was sentenced to life in prison and died in 2007.

No one knows how many white supremacists have served since then. A 2008 report commissioned by the Justice Department found half of all right-wing extremists in the United States had military experience.

"We don't really think this is a huge problem, at Bragg, and across the Army," said Colonel Kevin Arata, a spokesman for Fort Bragg.

"In my 26 years in the Army, I've never seen it," the former company commander said.

Experts have identified the presence of street gang members as a more widespread problem. Even so, the Pentagon has launched three major pushes in recent decades to crack down on racist extremists. The first directive was issued in 1986, when Defense Secretary Casper Weinberger ordered military personnel to reject supremacist organizations.

That failed to stop former Marine T.J. Leyden, with two-inch SS bolts tattooed above his collar, from serving from 1988 to 1991 while openly supporting neo-Nazi causes. A member of the Hammerskin Nation, a skinhead group, he said he hung a swastika from his locker, taking it down only when his commander politely asked him to ahead of inspections by the commanding general.

"I went into the Marine Corps for one specific reason: I would learn how shoot," Leyden told Reuters. "I also learned how to use C-4 (explosives), blow things up. I took all my military skills and said I could use these to train other people," said Leyden, 46, who has since renounced the white power movement and is a consultant for the anti-Nazi Simon Wiesenthal Center.


RATTLED BY OKLAHOMA BLAST

In 1995, eight months before the Fort Bragg murders, two former Army soldiers bombed the Oklahoma City federal building, killing 168 people. With a growing awareness of the spreading militia movement, the Pentagon in 1996 banned military personnel from participating in supremacist causes and authorized commanders to cashier personnel for rallying, recruiting or training racists.

"What's scary about Page is that he served in the 1990s when putatively this was being treated quite seriously by the military. There's plenty of other Pages who served during the war on terror, and we don't know what they're going to be doing over the next decade or so," said Matt Kennard, author of the forthcoming book "Irregular Army: How the U.S. Military Recruited Neo-Nazis, Gang Members and Criminals to Fight the War on Terror."


Kennard argues the U.S. military was so desperate for troops while fighting simultaneous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that it allowed extremists, felons and gang members into the armed forces.

The military can grant a "moral waiver" to allow a convicted criminal or otherwise ineligible person into the armed forces, and the percentage of recruits granted such waivers grew from 16.7 percent in 2003 to 19.6 percent in 2006, according to Pentagon data obtained by the Palm Center in a 2007 Freedom of Information Act request. But the Pentagon says no waiver exists for participation in extremist organizations.

"Our standards have not changed; participation in extremist activities has never been tolerated and is punishable under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice," said Eileen Lainez, a Defense Department spokeswoman.

The Pentagon's third directive against white supremacists was issued in 2009 after a Department of Homeland Security report expressed concern that right-wing extremists were recruiting veterans returning from wars overseas.

The Pentagon's 2009 instruction, updated in February 2012, directs commanders to remain alert for signs of racist activity and to intervene when they see it. It bans soldiers from blogging or chatting on racist websites while on duty.

"This is the best we've ever seen," said Heidi Beirich, leader of the Southern Poverty Law Center's intelligence project, referring to the Pentagon's attitute. "It was really disheartening under the Bush administration how lightly they took it, so this is a major advance."


Her group monitors online chatter among self-described active-duty warriors serving overseas and reports it to military officials. It also receives regular calls from military investigators asking about racists in the service.

The Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), another civil rights monitor, have helped train officers on how to spot extremists, although Mark Pitcavage, director of investigative research at the ADL, says the military lacks comprehensive training for recruiters and commanders. He called the military's reaction when alerted to white supremacists "patchy."

"We've discovered a great range of response, from getting a phone call the next day saying, 'He's already out,' to not doing anything at all," Pitcavage said.


THE TATTOO MATRIX

The Army showed Reuters a one-hour presentation it says was designed to educate soldiers and Army leaders about its extremism policy and how to respond, including to white supremacy groups. Penalties for extremist ideology may include being removed from the military, having security clearances yanked or being demoted.

"The standard hateful message has not been replaced, just packaged differently with issues like freedom of speech, anti-gun control themes, tax reform and oppression," the presentation says, noting that recruitment may be difficult to detect, occurring quietly "in bars and break areas" on bases.

The presentation instructs Army leaders to look out for tattooed symbols of lightning bolts, skulls, swastikas, eagles and Nordic warriors. Skinheads may have tattoos showing barbed wire, hobnailed boots and hammers.

In a detailed flowchart called a "Tattoo Decision Support Matrix," Army leaders are shown how to respond to various tattoos. At the time of publication, the Army was unable to identify the locations where this course was being taught.



SCREENING OUT ROGUES

"We're very strict on the tattoo policy here within this recruiting station," said Sergeant Aaron Iskenderian, head of the Army recruiting office in Fayetteville, the Army town next to Fort Bragg.

With the United States withdrawn from Iraq, winding down from Afghanistan and unemployment stuck above 8 percent, recruiters can be choosy again.

Iskenderian cited the example of a young man who came in recently with a tattoo of the Confederate flag.

"We're in the South here. It's considered Southern heritage. It's on the General Lee," Iskenderian said, referring to the car from the television show "The Dukes of Hazzard."

"Is it racist? I asked him, 'What does it mean to you?' and he said, 'Southern pride.'"

The potential recruit also told Iskenderian he had a black girlfriend. Iskenderian sent the issue up the chain of command, and the young man was rejected.


Academics who study white supremacists say proponents of the "infiltration strategy" of joining the U.S. military have adapted, telling skinheads to deceive military recruiters by letting their hair grow, avoiding or covering tattoos, and suppressing their racist views.

"You have to differentiate between some of the grandiose fantasies of some of the leaders of the movement and what actually is going on," cautioned the ADL's Pitcavage.

For neo-Nazis who get past the screeners, as with the gang members, the military needs a comprehensive strategy, said Carter F. Smith, a former military investigator who is now a professor of criminal justice at Austin Peay State University in Tennessee.

"They are some of the most disciplined soldiers we have. They really want to learn to shoot those weapons," Smith said. "The problem wasn't just that we were opening the floodgates to let them in. We let them out after prosecution or when their time was up and we didn't let the police know."
I remember Mobboss even claimed that the US military was no longer accepting those who had been convicted of serious crimes, or who were otherwise ineligible for moral reasons. Yet according to this article, the number of "moral waivers" increased from 16.7 percent in 2003 to 19.6 percent in 2006 when the US was so desperate for anybody who was willing to serve in Iraq.

There shouldn't be thousands of such supposed cases every year once they are finally caught committing acts of hate and violence. There should be tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of such cases until the US military is finally a professional organization where racism, bigotry, and homophobia isn't rampant. It is one of the last bastions of institutional hatred still left in the US, and it is time for it to end.
 
Why is it always WW2 that is brought up?
Because it is so obvious that your statement was bubkiss just by looking at this readily identifiable example?

Ok, the one example where American imperial interests coincided with some greater good, still doesn't make me happy about war, or about the millions of people unnecessarily killed.
Who's happy about war here? Raise your hand.

It's not like I don't support American troops but I was all for the Nazis. WW2 is in fact a perfect example of why we shouldn't have militaries.
No, it is a perfect example of why we must. Remember, there were limits on the German military... Hitler just went ahead and broke them. Had there not been standing military with trained cadre amongst the allies to train the much larger force that was necessary to stop the Nazis, Hitler would most likely have won...

Yes in a world with as many weapons and powerful militaries as ours requires a basic ability to defend ourselves, but the current state of the US military, the institution that the veterans we're supposed to respect served, hardly fits that criteria. They are in fact what's making the world so dangerous in the first place.
Care to turn this into a coherent sentence... I think I get you but with all the pronouns you've used I want to be sure before I lambaste you.

No it isn't.
You are on record as seeing no distinction between targeting military vs civilian...
What fantasy world do you live in?

They were people who were fighting against what they saw to be a great evil. They were merely fighting for what they thought was right. The US military has been responsible for many many times as many civilian casualties as them.
In recent conflicts, you are only right because the scale of the "battles" the US military is in is so vastly larger... We don't TARGET civilians. Intent is important.
No one sane likes war... civilians die in war, it sucks... but if we just targeted civilians it would be catastrophic (see firebombings of Germany for details).

blah blah blah
OK, so, now, according to you... the US Military is a breeding ground for white supremacists? Jeez man... you are really reaching. There have been millions to serve in the military during the time you are referencing, and yes, some of them have been racists. There is no accepted overt racism in the US Military in 2012 (you are aware it is 2012, right? You often bring up former policies as if they were still in place). Nor was there during the Devil's years (aka Bush Jr to most of us)...
You are once again talking out of your wazzoo.
 
Have any data to confirm such claims?:rolleyes:

Actually, yes. http://icasualties.org/Iraq/IraqiDeaths.aspx That website gives detailed accounts of actual civilian and military casualties reported on a daily basis for the entire time of the war. By all means, scan across various dates and times of the war. You will find that deliberate attacks by insurgents against civilians will indeed account for probably close to 90% (if not more) of all civilian casualties that occur.

Btw, does it ever hurt knowing your candidate for president lost even after all that right wing rhetoric you kept spraying? :lol:

A rather childish effort by you here. Nah, it doesnt hurt - I lived long enough to see candidates I supported both lose and also win. Politics are cyclical. Eventually the needle will swing back around the other way, never fear. It always has before, and I dont see that changing anytime soon.
 
Indeed. As usual, Mobboss is yet again trying to rationalize and defend the indefensible by even claiming that even he is personally helping to lead a crusade to make the US military a far better place. A military which he even claimed he would possibly leave himself if DADT was ever rescinded.

I'm not 'defending' anything, just stating that your're simply uninformed if you think the military doesnt remove people that dont comply with regulation on an ongoing daily basis.

And I never claimed that I would leave the military if DADT were rescinded. For someone that whines and cries so much about how your allegedly lied about, its rather astonishing how much you do it to others as well.

At least the Obama administration is finally taking steps to deal with the the overt white supramacists who even publicly expressed their racist opinions during the GWB administration while being largely ignored:

U.S. Military Battling White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis In Its Own Ranks

r-US-MILITARY-RACISM-large570.jpg

Form, we've been fighting gang activity in the military for decades now. It comes as no surprise that you would somehow come to the conclusion that this is something new we are doing. It isnt.

I remember Mobboss even claimed that the US military was no longer accepting those who had been convicted of serious crimes, or who were otherwise ineligible for moral reasons.

As usual you misremember. What I did say was recruiting restrictions and standards change according to the manpower needs of the military. If we experience manpower shortages, then the standards are expanded to allow access to more recruits. In times like these with a drawdown on the horizon, the standards are more restrictive.

Protip: if you are going to allege such things of me, you'd best bring links and proof, otherwise you'll probably 'misremember' and end up lieing, and we both know how you feel about lies. :rolleyes:

Yet according to this article, the number of "moral waivers" increased from 16.7 percent in 2003 to 19.6 percent in 2006 when the US was so desperate for anybody who was willing to serve in Iraq.

And guess what...thats when we actually were experiencing a manpower shortage during the highest optempo of the war in both Iraq and in Afghanistan.

That was also 6 years ago. Today such waivers probably are rarely, if ever, approved because the military has to cut its manpower to much lower levels.

There shouldn't be thousands of such supposed cases every year once they are finally caught committing acts of hate and violence.

You're right, there shouldnt, but since nice young men like yourself dont man up and join when we need more volunteers guess what? We end up relaxing the standards in order to meet strategic goals. In times of lower optempo the trend is reversed, and we often turn away applicants that 6 years ago or so would have been fully qualified to join.

Thats how things work Form. If you need me to teach you more about it just ask. I'd be happy to explain it to you.

There should be tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of such cases until the US military is finally a professional organization where racism, bigotry, and homophobia isn't rampant. It is one of the last bastions of institutional hatred still left in the US, and it is time for it to end.

Nice rhetoric, but thats not reality. Why? Because our military is simply a microcosm of our nation at large. Any rational person will realize that if you take young hormonal men and women from so many different cultures across the USA and then mix them all together in various stages of positions of power, then such things will occur. You cant stop all of it, but we do the best we can via the Army Command Policy that states a zero tolerance for such behavior, to the UCMJ that allows commanders to charge those that violate those policys to the various regulations that allow the military to administratively discharge non-compliant soldiers for myriad reasons.

The military does have issues along those lines but I make no apology for that. It wouldnt change anything anyway. What I do know is we actively investigate, charge, try and discharge thousands upon thousands of soldiers/airmen/marines and navy personnel that dont comply with those policys and regulations on a daily basis, year in and year out.

That not good enough for you? /oh well.
 
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