Supremes will strike down Obamacare?

[JollyRoger]

Yep - raising taxes pays for the ponies.

 

[RobAnybody]

Friendship is magic?

 

[otago]

They aren't constitutional. I just think the battle on them was lost. How in the hell can you restructure $1.6 trillion/yr going from people who hardly notice that they are paying payroll taxes to people who come to rely on those checks every month?

It is easy, just work out what each person has paid in Social Security and Medicare and pay them the excess if they are over 65, then just stop Social security and Medicare programs.
If under 65 pay them what they are owed, simple.
Want a dog eat dog system, that would work.

 

[Ayatollah So]

Ironically, the much more radical single payer would pass muster just fine. It was a bad compromise and a Frankenstein's monster of a law. Hopefully they will strike down the entire law so we can push for real socialized medicine.

I'm actually thinking I should have voted "hope so," because the law is ultimately somewhat flawed at the core.

Don't worry, I voted "hope so" for you, for similar reasons. Also voted ~50% chance, as in I have no freaking idea which way they'll vote.

Poor solution > no solution is shortsighted, bad solutions can in fact make situations worse. The option isnt simply better or what we have now.

This. One way poor solutions can make things worse is by being taken for the same thing as the good solution. Then, when people get rid of the poor solution, they won't go for any solution. So even if the poor solution is (temporarily) better than nothing, it can do more harm than good in the long run. And I think this applies in spades to Obamacare.

So, go, conservative Justices, go! Vote your political biases, you know you want to! You did it in Bush v Gore, you can do it again! Let the dark side of the force guide you - into doing the accidentally-right thing.

 

[kochman]

The issue of tax rates is a red herring.

Tax rates do not matter. There is no dirrect relationship between tax revenue and spending. If we raise taxes and revenue by 50%, Congress will respond by raising spending by more than 50%. This is the issue. We still go bankrupt. Therefore raising rates does nothing.

We will have to have an amendment to the Constitution to force Congress to make tough, responsible choices. There is no other way to avoid financial catastrophe.

I agree with this to a point... there should be an emergency switch to assume debt WHEN it is avoid catastrophe... but in general, I would like to see spending equal revenue.

 

[JollyRoger]

I agree with this to a point... there should be an emergency switch to assume debt WHEN it is avoid catastrophe... but in general, I would like to see spending equal revenue.

But even the American dream is deficit spending. Many of us go in to debt for a house. Surely, that is not an emergency.

 

[kochman]

But even the American dream is deficit spending. Many of us go in to debt for a house. Surely, that is not an emergency.

But, in the end, each of us are held accountable by a higher source... the bank and law.

Who is holding the gubbamint accountable? Basically, right now, we are still "looking ok" mainly on the basis that so many other places are failing miserably.

And, a house is a one time debt, over years.

The gubbamint is doubling down every year, and what equity is it earning?

 

[JollyRoger]

Who is holding the gubbamint accountable?

The bondholders and future bondholders.

 

[kochman]

The bondholders and future bondholders.

Hahhahahaa, if you say so.

 

[JollyRoger]

Hahhahahaa, if you say so.

Yep - they sell the bonds in the marketplace - if the marketplace determines the risk is too high, the selling process won't go so well.

 

[kochman]

Yep - they sell the bonds in the marketplace - if the marketplace determines the risk is too high, the selling process won't go so well.

Yep, no shenanigans involved in that, right?

 

[JollyRoger]

Yep, no shenanigans involved in that, right?

It is Wall Street, so it's on the up and up from what conservatives tell me. I mean, they are calling for Social Security to be run by Wall Street.

 

[kochman]

It is Wall Street, so it's on the up and up from what conservatives tell me. I mean, they are calling for Social Security to be run by Wall Street.

Well, let's just put our entire hopes in the stock market! A stock market bubble is just what we need!

 

[JollyRoger]

Well, let's just put our entire hopes in the stock market! A stock market bubble is just what we need!

Bonds are usually a good place to be when the bubble bursts. You do realize that your home mortgage, student loan, and much of your consumer debt get traded on Wall Street, right?

 

[kochman]

Bonds are usually a good place to be when the bubble bursts.

So is gold, from what I hear...
The point is, let's not build bubbles we know will burst.

 

[Leoreth]

Gold is a bubble itself.