Supremes will strike down Obamacare?

[illram]

I feel like in a system where insurance companies are so entrenched, the only solution is the solution that involves them somehow, and this was that solution. The public option ideally would have been the poison pill for insurance companies that eventually made single payer a sizeable chunk of American insureds and widdled away our overpriced and inefficient for profit insurance system altogether, but that did not happen and now will likely never happen. We did not get that, so what we get is everyone insured and subsidizing their insurance in the private market.

I would like to see this work; how many chances do we get to fix healthcare? Last time we tried was what, 20 years ago? Do we want to wait another 20 years for another potential fix that might ultimately also fail?

 

[Antilogic]

Most of the people who supported Obamacare knew it was a poor solution. In a way nobody likes it; conservatives insist it violates their civil liberties somehow, progressives know it's incredibly flawed. But since Republicans were steadfastly refusing to accept UHC, what choice was there? I'll take a poor solution over no solution any day.

Most people who support it don't do so for the primary mechanism (mandate and private insurance) but rather the other parts of the law, like kids being able to stay on their parent's health insurance through college, the exchange to get individuals a better bulk rate, and stuff like that. Most of those elements (Nate Silver did a great breakdown on it before the bill was passed, forget the title) are highly favored by the American public, sometimes by a margin of 20-40 points in favor.

 

[kramerfan86]

Its not surprising that the only part of the law people really dislike is the one that was a bribe gift to the insurance companies.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Its not surprising that the only part of the law people really dislike is the one that was a bribe gift to the insurance companies.

Well, I dislike most of it.

The only thing I can sympathize with at all is letting kids stay on it longer (Which I still don't agree with, let the company decide) and the pre-existing conditions thing (I don't understand the issue enough to say.)

 

[vonbach]

Just what we need another scam to take more of white taxpayers money and feed it
to minorities too lazy to work.

Moderator Action: trolling. Such racist comments are inflammatory and not permitted here.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[BSmith1068]

must not feed the troll... must not feed the troll...

 

[vonbach]

Who's being a troll I'm correct. Where do you think the money will be going and who do you think will be paying for it? The problem is nobody has any money to spare. We have 22% real unemployment in this country and they want to start this abortion? Who are they trying to kid?

 

[timtofly]

must not feed the troll... must not feed the troll...

Are you afraid it will grow up and be like me someday?

 

[Commodore]

Who's being a troll I'm correct. Where do you think the money will be going and who do you think will be paying for it? The problem is nobody has any money to spare. We have 22% real unemployment in this country and they want to start this abortion? Who are they trying to kid?

I don't know what other sites you post on and what their standards are, but on this site there is kind of an unwritten rule that you have to provide a source for your statistics.

In light of that I ask: Where are you getting your 22% unemployment stat from? Also, you are going to have to demonstrate how only white people will foot the bill and how only unemployed minorities will benefit from it. If you can't demonstrate either of those things then you basically just made a racially charged statement that has absolutely no basis in fact.

 

[vonbach]

In light of that I ask: Where are you getting your 22% unemployment stat from?

Take a look at the way they used to calculate unemployment stats and get back to me.
They don't bother to count people who count people that stopped looking for work.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/chao-obama-unemployment-high/2012/02/03/id/428432

 

[otago]

A question for conservatives, it seems most of you agree Social security and medicare are constitutional, if that is the case would Medicare covering all the population be constitutional or not ?

 

[JollyRoger]

Just what we need another scam to take more of white taxpayers money and feed it
to minorities too lazy to work.

I realize that you may be too hard working to have the time to follow legislation in detail, but can you explain how the bill takes money from white taxpayers and feeds it to lazy minorities?

 

[vonbach]

You seriously need me to explain who pays the taxes in the USA and who doesn't?

 

[kochman]

I realize that you may be too hard working to have the time to follow legislation in detail, but can you explain how the bill takes money from white taxpayers and feeds it to lazy minorities?

For the record, aren't most welfare recipients in the USA white?

Furthermore, I've seen a lot more laziness out of whites than mexicans...

 

[Core Imposter]

Just what we need another scam to take more of white taxpayers money and feed it
to minorities too lazy to work.

This is just wrong. If you are even reasonably trying to be serious then put some effort into it.

Its perfectly acceptable to point out that wealth redistribution is baked into the cake and that it does result in money flowing from whites to minorities but lets be clear, that is not a direct effect. Its indirect. Whites earn more overall than minorities.

Portray it for what it is. Free ponies to the poor for votes. Pols do not care what skin color the vote is, they are just paying for the vote.

And there is no point in saying that minorities are too lazy to work. Its not true for one thing. Second, its not relevent. Minorities have far fewer opportunities than whites and the idea that people should be all jacked up and dreaming of a career at Mickey Dee's drive thru is positively airheaded.

Add in the wide array of "assistance programs" that sap the will and initiative of those entangled in the safety net and you should be able to work out the tremendous blockade that exists on the road of opportunity, not just for minorities in America, but the majority poor and the balance of the working class that is in grand jeopardy due to the broad nonrecovery that we have seen since the liquidity crisis.

Its comments like this that give conservatives like me a bad name. I repudiate your views.

 

[RobAnybody]

Its not surprising that the only part of the law people really dislike is the one that was a bribe gift to the insurance companies.

You're absolutely right, both about it being disliked & about it being a bribe to the insurance companies, but it's required to do the good things people do like.

If you say insurance companies have to accept people with pre-existing conditions, & you also say that they can't charge them more, then people will wait until they incur a bill larger than the insurance premium they would pay to have the insurance company cover it. That's basically a discount program, not insurance.

Essentially, the only people who sign up for insurance (if they're smart about it) will be people who cost the insurance companies money. Those who require a higher payout than they are paying in. Otherwise, if the premium is more than what they would pay out of pocket, there's no reason to get insurance, obviously.

That's why the mandate can't be decoupled from the stuff people like. In order to pay for the stuff people like (pre-ex, kids until 26, etc.), everyone needs to be paying in, even those who, at least until they need something covered, pay in more than they get out.

I'm not saying the mandate is a great thing (although, from an insurance company's perspective, it is), it's just that you take the good, you take the bad, you take them both & there you have the facts of life.

 

[Tristan_C]

A question for conservatives, it seems most of you agree Social security and medicare are constitutional, if that is the case would Medicare covering all the population be constitutional or not ?

They aren't constitutional. I just think the battle on them was lost. How in the hell can you restructure $1.6 trillion/yr going from people who hardly notice that they are paying payroll taxes to people who come to rely on those checks every month?

 

[JollyRoger]

You seriously need me to explain who pays the taxes in the USA and who doesn't?

My question wasn't about who pays taxes. I asked you to explain how the bill takes money from white taxpayers and feeds it to lazy minorities?

But to help me answer your latest question, is GE white or minority?

 

[vonbach]

Add in the wide array of "assistance programs" that sap the will and initiative of those entangled in the safety net and you should be able to work out the tremendous blockade that exists on the road of opportunity, not just for minorities in America,

Hahaha oh your serious are you?

but the majority poor and the balance of the working class that is in grand jeopardy due to the broad nonrecovery that we have seen since the liquidity crisis.

Funny take a look at who gets the assistance and who's living under bridges now.

 

[JollyRoger]

Hahaha oh your serious are you?
Funny take a look at who gets the assistance and who's living under bridges now.

Do you get assistance or live under a bridge?