Surrender Summit II: Putin Invited to Washington

[Dachs]

It means reducing tension so Russia doesn't feel the need to mess with the neighborhood.

That is, in fact, not what is happening right now.

 

[Verbose]

It means reducing tension so Russia doesn't feel the need to mess with the neighborhood.

Maybe for the US, but only if the US really intends to welch completely on its hitherto international commitments, in particular its alliances.

For everyone else it just knocked the tension upwards.

Trump's Montenegro comments were anything but innocent. Barely two years ago Montenegro averted a Russia-backed attempted coup d'état. If Trump has signaled to Moscow that the US will retreat (which is what it looks like so far), then the probability of similar things happening again has increased.

And yes, that's no skin of the US' back, provided the US is about to actually drop NATO and retreat into isolationism. Which might well be what Trump wants for all we know so far.

 

[Kyriakos]

There isn't any nato without the US.
If the US drops nato, it means nato ended.

For some countries it would be likely disastrous (eg small baltic states with russian minorities/former parts of Russia), but for others it may be beneficial. I think Greece can do better without formal nato-alliance ties; as long as nato stops existing that is.

 

[red_elk]

3) So Appeasement, removing sanctions and covering up for Russia is a smart strategy ?

You could call it surrender to Russia as well.
I mean, if you really don't see the difference between detente and appeasement.

 

[EnglishEdward]

It seems to me that there are two possibilities:

(a) the Donald has remembered his manners and politely invited Vlad for a reciprocal visit
(b) Vlad has invited himself, and had his spokeman Donald announce it

Normally I would view "jaw-jaw" as better than "war-war", but today I am not sure.

 

[Cutlass]

What Putin wants most is an end to American sanctions which are endangering the odd trillion dollars that Putin and his oligarch friends have looted from the Russian people. Since Trump wants to be the same kind of national looting oligarch, he's naturally sympathetic to betraying his country for his own pocketbook.

 

[Lexicus]

I was, and I was old enough to vote. Opening China to western influence was a big deal and appropriate.

Nixon was also a traitor and a mass murderer but I suppose the latter at least is pretty par for the course for people who are called "statesmen".

 

[Broken_Erika]

Nixon was also a traitor and a mass murderer but I suppose the latter at least is pretty par for the course for people who are called "statesmen".

Isn't it something of a tradition for Statesmen?
Inserting obligatory Onion Article Here.
Supporters Praise Trump For Upholding Traditional American Value Of Supporting Murderous Dictators For Political Gain

 

[Berzerker]

1) Gas lighting, tarriffs threats and calling allies cheaters is the best strategy to get them to spend more on their military ?
2) Getting out the TPP and then Starting six trade wars against most of the world at the same time is a smart strategy ? The US can do it alone by itself taking on China ?
3) So Appeasement, removing sanctions and covering up for Russia is a smart strategy ? while attacking NATO and the WTO and NAFTA ? All created by the US to benefit the US ?

Tariffs are a strategy to renegotiate trade deals

That is, in fact, not what is happening right now.

Are US/Russia tensions worse or better now under Trump that under Obama?

Maybe for the US, but only if the US really intends to welch completely on its hitherto international commitments, in particular its alliances.

For everyone else it just knocked the tension upwards.

Trump's Montenegro comments were anything but innocent. Barely two years ago Montenegro averted a Russia-backed attempted coup d'état. If Trump has signaled to Moscow that the US will retreat (which is what it looks like so far), then the probability of similar things happening again has increased.

And yes, that's no skin of the US' back, provided the US is about to actually drop NATO and retreat into isolationism. Which might well be what Trump wants for all we know so far.

Montenegro wanted to join NATO, but those tensions were worse under Obama. What we're retreating from are those heightened tensions.

 

[uppi]

Tariffs are a strategy to renegotiate trade deals

And war is a strategy to negotiate peace deals?

 

[Synobun]

That "strategy to renegotiate trade deals" bit would be very compelling if Trump had any semblance of a list of reasonable demands.

Starting trade wars en masse while screaming about some character flaw of theirs is not what I would consider to be traits of a savvy negotiator.

I'm also not sure you can really classify it as renegotiating if the only change you're looking for is concessions.

 

[Moriarte]

I'm sure Putin will bring a cigar to the Oval Office for his next private time with his intern.

Now, now. Trump is a billionaire businessman, leader of the economically strongest country in the world right now, which is worth roughly 10 times more than Russia and wields 10 times bigger influence across western world and beyond. Your credit to Putin’s power on the world stage is undeserving and in fact delusional. It’s China you really got to watch, not Russia, which is huge, but less relevant, lately. China actually is a real problem with t’s huge population, comparable financial leverage, it’s competing ideologies, it’s rates of growth. Trump needs all the help he can get with his war on 6 fronts, so naturally he is reaching out to get some help from Moscow, which isn’t in a position to reject a fair offer.

 

[Zkribbler]

And war is a strategy to negotiate peace deals?

Of course.
Under Trump: War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength.
Winston Smith loved The Apprentice.

 

[Dachs]

That "strategy to renegotiate trade deals" bit would be very compelling if Trump had any semblance of a list of reasonable demands.

It'd be nice if he even had any concrete demands at all. He doesn't. He's sometimes framed the tariffs as ways to get countries to "negotiate" without explicitly saying what he wants to negotiate about.

Even in negotiations where there are concrete demands, like the ones over NATO spending, Trump keeps moving the goal posts so that the European countries can't actually do what he allegedly wants them to do.

 

[Lexicus]

And war is a strategy to negotiate peace deals?

War is the best strategy to negotiate peace deals if your idea of "negotiation" is actually "extortion."

Even in negotiations where there are concrete demands, like the ones over NATO spending, Trump keeps moving the goal posts so that the European countries can't actually do what he allegedly wants them to do.

That's because Trump's foreign policy isn't about substance, it's about creating the image of the US throwing its weight around so that his base (not to mention independent observers like Berzerker) thinks we're Winning Again

 

[Dachs]

That's because Trump's foreign policy isn't about substance, it's about creating the image of the US throwing its weight around so that his base (not to mention independent observers like Berzerker) thinks we're Winning Again

That's correct. One administration official has even been quoted anonymously describing the so-called "Trump Doctrine" as basically saying, "We're America, [redacted*]!"

* = Jesse Pinkman

 

[Broken_Erika]

That's correct. One administration official has even been quoted anonymously describing the so-called "Trump Doctrine" as basically saying, "We're America, [redacted*]!"

* = Jesse Pinkman

I thought the policy was summed up by the Team America theme-song.

 

[warpus]

If Trump's efforts open up Russia without bloodshed, wont history be more kind to him?

Nobody's "opening up Russia"

The Russians have their own agenda and are not your friends, as their agenda can't coexist with yours.

 

[Dachs]

I thought the policy was summed up by the Team America theme-song.

Team America's theme song talks about "saving the [redacted] day". I don't think that the administration cares about that very much.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Team America's theme song talks about "saving the [redacted] day". I don't think that the administration cares about that very much.

They're saving the [censored] day for Trump and fiend's companies!