Nexon was not a nice person nor a good president, but he was capable of doing somethings that were good. Going to China was one of them. That didn't make him great, but it was a smart move.
Surrender Summit II: Putin Invited to Washington
- Thread starter Quintillus
- Start date
If Russia is taking any sides in their rivalry, it obviously will side with neighboring emerging superpower, rather than superpower in decline.
Timsup2nothin
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Russia is of no particular use to China. To "side with" them you would have to have something to offer them.
Russia has to offer to China more much more than to USA, actually.
Starting from fossil fuels and military technologies and ending with trade routes to EU.
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Berzerker
Deity
Well...yeah. If you're in a fight with someone who doesn't want peace, war is a strategy to compel peace talks. Or you could just surrender...
I'm not privy to the demands we're making but at one point during the G7 Trump suggested dropping all tariffs and trade barriers. Seems reasonable to me, but he didn't get any takers. All those people complaining about tariffs weren't interested in getting rid of them. And why wouldn't you call a new trade deal with concessions a renegotiation?
I dont think we were winning, I think we spent decades shipping jobs to cheaper sources of labor to help build up our friends during the cold war and China somehow ended up with a windfall. Maybe that was a result of Nixon's statesmanship too.
Everyone has their own agenda... How does Russia's prevent ours from existing? If China started moving in on Russia's territory both would want our friendship.
What it has to do with USA reaching out Russia for help against China?
Russia can't do jack to help the US against China.
What Russia doesn't understand is that Russia's relevance to the world outside of Russia hasn't been lower in 200 years. And most of the reason that that is true is the people who run the Russian government since the USSR collapsed. And yet those very same people who are most responsible for Russia's decline keep saying that they will "make Russia great again".
You want to make Russian great again? The first step is to put Putin and all of his friends in a Siberian gulag for the remainder of their lives, and reclaim all of the money that they stole from the rest of you. If you are not actively working to accomplish that, then you are a traitor against Russia. Second, restore real democracy, rather than the kleptocracy Russia has become. Third, live within your own borders, and work at making your economy about the creation of wealth, rather than the confiscation of wealth.
If you aren't working to do these things, don't pretend to me that you give a flying frak about the future of Russia, because you already told me that you don't.
This is a slogan of your current president, nobody's saying that in Russia.
It's impossible to "make great again" something which is already great.
I don't pretend to you anything, what I'm care about is none of your business. Attempts to lecture me about future of Russia without knowing a "flying frak" about it, are rather amusing.
Berzerker
Deity
you sound like a right winger
Lexicus
Deity
Well aside from the detail that right-wingers mean "confiscation of wealth" when they say "creation of wealth" and "creation of wealth" when they say "confiscation of wealth"...
It's not a negotiating position, it's a rhetorical flourish and public-relations ploy. Because of Trump's elastic definition of the concept of a tariff, trade barrier, or even what words are, nobody has any serious expectation of him proposing the abolition of trade barriers in earnest. This is the same guy who campaigned on getting rid of NAFTA. So of course he didn't get any takers.
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
It was a disingenuous offer put down to Trump gaslighting
I watch Kudlow say with a straight face on Fox news that the US was prepared to make all tariffs 0 and remove all US subsidies.
Trump just implemented tarriffs to protect US steel from Canada a net IMPORTER of US steel
Trump dosnt even know what he wants from all the trade wars hes started other then Trade wars are good and easy to win.
Verbose
Deity
The Chinese are looking at the next step, how to grow their economy based mostly on domestic driven demand. I.e. if China gets this going, trade with the US won't be a clincher. The thing about Russia is its closeness, the lack of people in the east, and the resources there.
It's a bit of a open question how far Chinese companies have actually shouldered into Russia's eastern regions already? Formally and officially it is all very well in hand by the government in Moscow. But, well, massive illegal logging and all manner of other shenanigans that are not part of the official narrative coming out of Moscow also seem a reality.
It has been broached from Chinese sources (think tanks etc., not official policy as such, yet) that China might like to reverse some of the 19th c. treaties that created the current border configurations. (Hey, if Russia can do it in Ukraine, why not China in the Russia Far East?) This can be done with more, some, or hypothetically no Russian compliance eventually, depending on how the chips fall.
Trumps fascination with Russia seems to be his fascination with strongmen, seen to be squarely in charge of their countries, and no pesky checks, balances or public and civil society allowed to but it. That is apparently why he despises western liberal democracies, which he personalizes as despising their elected leaders. It by now seems unlikely Trump actually understands what strength looks like. He is distracted by surface impressions.
and so are most news media
and so are most people consuming the news media
positive feedback and all
The far right always use policies which confiscate wealth rather than creating it. That's everything the Republicans have done on economic policy since Reagan.
Berzerker
Deity
He didn't get any takers because the people decrying US tariffs dont want to get rid of their own. If they wanted to get rid of them they wouldn't have kept quiet about his offer and vociferously accepted it instead. NAFTA didn't get rid of trade barriers.
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Lexicus
Deity
I'd replace this with "since the first aristocrat decided his rule was ordained by the gods" but yes
GoodSarmatian
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The offer (let's call it an offer and assume it's genuine for the sake of argument) wasn't just about tariffs but all trade barriers, including safety and efficiency standards.
Thanks but no thanks. You can keep your chlorinated and roided up meat and dairy.
Trump sees the US standards as a ceiling for the rest of the world.
No need for any other country to aim higher.
And on the domestic front he is decreasing US standards.
Any other country having higher standards, proving that can work fine, a foe.
