Sweden

[ElliotS]

Have you played against Sweden human player at all? If not - there's probably nothing else to discuss.

He literally played against me as Sweden two weeks ago...

You sound like you're bad at this game, and if you want to learn how to play better than listen to experiences players like myself, CrazyG, OwlBeBach and others. If you just want to shout poor opinions and tell everyone else they're wrong and you alone know how the game works then you're free to do so, but you'll never have credibility or make a difference here.

I suggest you set your ego aside and look as how you can improve your play, not blame your losses on 'OP' things.

 

[Owlbebach]

You can't stop an army which fully heals every 5-10 turns while performing actions

This one statement is enough to say that you do not understand the game. Nobody can get Generals that fast more that 1-2 times in a game, and those are times, when you can buy general with faith, or get it via Wonder
Here is the thing. I had won a Deity game as Portugal, and Portugal has 4 Great General points (scaling with era) per turn for every land Trade Route. This means that in Industrial i was getting approximately 100 General points per turn in addition to war (and i had lots of wars, i captured 3 capitals). And during the whole game i got maybe 10 Great Generals, not more.

 

[tu_79]

If you want to play everyone a warmonger game, do what CrazyG suggested: Play in a pangea/oval tiny map, pick only warmonger civs, preferably those with an early power peak, so you can finish your game sooner.

Many long term uniques and strategies don't make sense if you want your game to be finished in renaissance.

 

[randomnub]

He literally played against me as Sweden two weeks ago...

He must have won incredibly quick and smooth given how OP Sweden is atm.

 

[matlajs]

i think that guy absolutely did not get a point of GG healing being rather an offensive bonus for help sustain more damage while besieging someone.

 

[nj666]

i would fortify and little stabilize situation

Do you even read my posts? I said that after second general I fortified. He attacked me a bit, then got third general and I had to retreat cuz he had full HP units again.

If you leave half of your opponents army at half healthy you are playing badly.

Oh really?
Have you ever player multiplayer vs good players?
When both players are somewhat good and army is technologically equal - units are not so easily killed.

it was that a very powerful warmonger had a massive lead and was able to win a 2v1 war.

The problem is - Sweden is always "a very powerful warmonger". In that game Sweden was far behind in unit count ( barely had units at all ), but multiple generals allowed its small army to steamroll both our armies which were larger.

The healing is really powerful

Not just "really powerful", but something that has no way to be countered by anything. And it scales exponentially with army size. Except for not fighting wars with Sweden. But that's not possible vs human player.

for help sustain more damage while besieging someone.

Not "more damage", but "infinite damage". INFINITE.

 

[Gazebo]

Replacing Sweden's DOW screen for next patch:

 

[tu_79]

Do you even read my posts?

Did you read others?

By all means, they manage to beat deity players playing Sweden. By some of your comments, it shows you don't have same skill.
You can keep complaining as much as you want, if most veteran players don't find this ability overpowered, then it's not going to be changed. Even I, who barely wins in Emperor, find your strategy with Ethiopia debatable.

If you dislike it as is, bane it from multiplayer as a rule next time. Or pick Sweden yourself, perhaps it suits better your playstyle.

 

[nj666]

By all means, they manage to beat deity players playing Sweden.

You mean beat AI?
How is that related?

 

[CrazyG]

Nope I've never against good multiplayer opponents, and asking me that caused me to suddenly agree with you...........Come on now. Can you enlighten as to why you are a good player? So far what we know is you like to skip infrastructure and rush tercios to attack civs with tercio unique units. Which are both terrible ideas in this mod (is there even a mod or any version of civ where this strategy makes sense?)

Its the classic everyone disagrees with me, so they must be bad or not reading my posts. Which is extra ironic given how many responses have been made which garner no response, such as explaining how attacking Sweden at that time as Ethiopia was extremely bone headed. Or the suggestions to just play other maps, or ban civs.

Lets just get facts clear, Sweden does not have infinite healing. He gets a full heal on his units every 10 or so turns if he is fighting enough. He does not get great generals at nearly the rate you are claiming, you are blatantly exaggerating to try and make your point and no one is being fooled. If Ethiopia, who will have recieved 4 or 5 free techs by this point of the game, isn't ahead of Sweden in science, its a really strong indicator that the Swedish player is playing better. Plus Ethiopia gets all that bonus faith, if you didn't achieve some kind of advantage at this stage of the game with all your economic bonuses (Sweden has absolutely none until the industrial era) you were already losing. I have read all comments here, and it sounds like you lost fair and square

If the zulu player after fighting with impis felt that Sweden was OP, that might have some weight, but regardless I think the best solution is just to add a ban to your multiplayer group. Or play a single continent map, Sweden is somewhat weak to being attacked early on, especially if you can deny him access to iron or horses.

 

[ElliotS]

You mean beat AI?
How is that related?

By all means, they manage to beat deity players playing Sweden. By some of your comments, it shows you don't have same skill.

they manage to beat deity players playing Sweden

players playing Sweden

...

When both players are somewhat good and army is technologically equal - units are not so easily killed.

Well there's your problem. You're not a good player. We can't patch this in, so you're going to need to find a workaround.

In all seriousness how about this: Play Sweden next weekend during Multiplayer. Prove your theory.

In short: Put up or shut up.

 

[Owlbebach]

Right now i have a strong desire to invite you (@nj666) to a game with @ElliotS and @ashendashin and me and force you to play Sweden. I bet my money that by the time everyone reach Classical you will be so far behind that you will not have any chance of getting back to the game. Even if we agree not to declare war on you simultaneously (which, according to your claim will only benefit Sweden).

EDIT: Even if we let you choose our civs

 

[ridjack]

Nobody can get Generals that fast more that 1-2 times in a game, and those are times, when you can buy general with faith, or get it via Wonder

Not disagreeing with anything else you've said, but I definitely have consistently gotten Generals like this while playing Sweden. My entire "strategy" was essentially was to take a swarm of units (mounted or armor in particular), ram some into the enemy's defenses, cycle them back and bring the fresh units forward. Pretty much every time it was time to pull back with my second or third wave, a GG had spawned to heal everyone. Rinse and repeat for however many cities I ended up taking. I was laughing my ass off the entire time.

 

[matlajs]

In my actual polynesian game, i have informed Dido, that Gustavus is ploting against her. She despite being 6 tech ahead and 500 ahead in score, left the screen and her 20 cities empire turned into barbarians.

 

[pineappledan]

Sooo... Playing Sweden with the 8-16 patch. Sweden's friggin' weird.

With the change to the skirmisher line, Gustavus' +1 to siege makes them better skirmishers than skirmishers are. That rough terrain penalty makes mounted ranged pretty useless in comparison.
On the other hand, with all the food and growth nerfs, the Skola isn't that great. I just built a few in my empire and I'm not that impressed. The Skola is 100% scalers, and they are very powerful scalers, especially in comparison to the base 1/4 of the base school, but I've got Hanging Gardens, and my capital isn't even 20 yet. I would have been at least 25 in previous versions.

I'm sure it's fine; it's still a decent shot in the arm for raw science, but it's such a late building and I'm not feeling that much bang.

 

[SpankmyMetroid]

I'm trying to finish a game with them recently and I don't really understand how Skolas synergize with the rest of Sweden's domination strategy... except by providing a lot of raw science. Maybe I'm missing something but it seems a bit awkward to me, most other civs have some obvious relationship between their UA and UI/UB.

 

[andersw]

Was about to play some sweden (was a long time ago) and looking at them I see a few things.
There are no hammer, science, faith, gold or culture benefits and UB is very late.
I expect to be behind, warmongering when behind in military tech is not that easy.
General from heroic epic is a timing possibility.
In theory units could get a LOT of exp if they survive.

Stonehenge -> god of war looks appealing.
Hero worship looks like a dream scenario (but I assume admirals does not trigger the UA).
As @pinappledan noted move 3 siege looks nice for sniping, field->splash line maybe (can I get kilimanjaro with this pls) ?

But where do I go when boxed in with poor strategic resources no religion and behind in military tech? I expect this is a fairly big risk.
Anything obvious that I missed?

 

[065tdsa]

Sweden's big thing in the early game is their UA bonuses. That is, bonus attack on land melee and extra movement on siege, both of which are huge because of how they're quality increases for your entire army from the beginning of the game. The Great General bonus is also great to allow you to come out swinging, the healing in particular can be pivotal and it is very easy for a GG at the right time to win you a war early on.

Authority is very powerful if you're able to take cities and kill units, and Sweden gives you plenty of tools to do both of those, so you shouldn't fall behind easily. If you do seriously fall behind in military, bearing in mind than unless you got unlucky at least one of your neighbors should be less of a warmonger and therefore not have singlemindedly rushed the bottom of the tech tree... Then you're probably in trouble, so avoid that.

 

[andersw]

Sweden's big thing in the early game is their UA bonuses. That is, bonus attack on land melee and extra movement on siege, both of which are huge because of how they're quality increases for your entire army from the beginning of the game. The Great General bonus is also great to allow you to come out swinging, the healing in particular can be pivotal and it is very easy for a GG at the right time to win you a war early on.

Authority is very powerful if you're able to take cities and kill units, and Sweden gives you plenty of tools to do both of those, so you shouldn't fall behind easily. If you do seriously fall behind in military, bearing in mind than unless you got unlucky at least one of your neighbors should be less of a warmonger and therefore not have singlemindedly rushed the bottom of the tech tree... Then you're probably in trouble, so avoid that.

Got lucky (stonehenge helped some also) with religion and got an insane god of war -> hero worship+order .> zelotry+cathedral -> Crusader spirit.
Sweden UA proved strong even before the religion was fully set (I can tell I have improved a lot since last I played sweden also).
Alternated promo on siege and already have a logistics treb.

 

[JohnnyNT]

I'll just add a few cents regarding Sweden in 12-1-1. Almost accidentally found a steamroll strategy (Immortal, Epic, Huge). With the weaker cities now, bringing them down with just melee is more than viable. I started by rushing stonehenge (someone stole god of war from me, I took god of all creation), then rushed Statue of Zeus. In the meantime 3-4 warriors were farming barbs -> Drill 2. I play with GG points from barbs enabled, by the time I had SoZ and upgraded warriors to Spearmen, first GG popped out. Drill 2 spearmen+15% SoZ + 30% GG + 20% on attack. Destroy absolutely any city without walls, garrison or not. Even with archers, if they are inside city they actually die faster. After few hits you can get 3rd promotion - city assault. Then those spears can take cities up to CS 25 without big issues (cbows in large numbers being the only problem). After removing 2 neighbors I waited till pikes, those were able to take cities up to around 40CS. Fast forward turn ~300, blitz,mobility,city assault,drill 3 Caroleans (so March too) are tearing 60 CS cities down without range support. Now I upgraded them to Riflemen, effective CS against cities - 175. Single unit beats a city down in 2-3 turns.