Tactics and Strategy T80-90

[Kaleb]

I think the chariot can move up and then back into position. Or by wait did you mean wait until the barbarian have had their chance to move?

Let's wait and see what the barb axe does before we decide what to do. On our turn we should also move our Axe first so we get the visibility off the hill.

Should we whip Pav before switching to CS?

We won't be ready to whip the Settler before we go to Bureau

Whipping Akt for a catapult - doesn't a whip with no previous hammers invested cost significantly more than a whip once at least one turn has been invested in a unit? I think it would be better to whip the temple or to just build the chariot.

We spend one turn on the catapult and the city grows. We then whip for 2 pop.

Shym grows in 4 turns - can the worker move (1 turn) and finish a chop in time (2 turns) to be done the turn before the population grows (4 turns)? I thought workers took more than 2 turns to complete chops. Or are we on a faster speed?

It's 1 turn to move, and 3 to chop. But we'll have a revolution in the meantime so it won't grow until the turn after that. That's the only advantage of a turn of anarchy - it gives your workers a turn to 'catch up'

Akt - I think cottage and save the chop. We have limited chops in this city, and I think it makes more sense to save the chops until we have a forge. Or at least use them to build a forge, as we will still get the 25% bonus from Mono.

I think I would also prefer the cottage on the shared tile.

 

[Indiansmoke]

How's this for T98?

Military (play in order)
Axe 1 > NE
Axe 2 > NW
Chariot > Wait and see what barb axe does
Scout > W

Civilian
New Worker > to Gold OR to forest for chop OR NW for cottage (I recommend chop, so Granary is done before pop grows)
Worker by Aktau > SE,W to chop OR S to cottage (use by Aktau for Haz to take over later)

Tech
NB: Cav should get CS this turn, so we should get it next turn. We should switch straight away

Cities
Oskemen > Catapult next

Aktau

Spoiler :

* Aktau is at happy cap but will recover 1 happy this turn
* if we switch to Catapult/Galley this turn this turn Aktau will grow and we can do a 2 pop whip for the Catapult and then finish the Chariot
* or we can finish the Chariot this turn and then do a 2 pop whip for the Temple.

Hello team, I am back from a long weekend at the beach

Regarding last turn, we should had taken the 50% chance on that woodsman 2 axe, we will not get another...

Killing the barb axe will give us some experience but it will take many turn to recover to full health not sure it is worth it, better to let the barb axe attack some Sacnta axe, which we can pick off with the chariot.

Now for next turn, new worker I suggest he cottages the river grassland, we will need to work food to grow and whip, not crapy 2 hammer gold tile...we don't need the extra commerce, we need to grow and improve our cities.

Oskemen I suggest does a sword next, in case a chariot shows up. Sword is the best unit to fortify that forest hill as well.

Actau I suggest finishes the chariot this turn does a worker next and slaves for 2 pop...we need the extra workers and actau land must be improved.

 

[Indiansmoke]

On a side note their woodsman 2 axe could have killed our chariot this turn!

Thankfully Sancta did not take advantage!

 

[cav scout]

We are up. Looks like the barb axe went NE towards the SANCTA axes instead of us.

Memphus was logged in at the same time and sent me an in-game chat to the effect of, "looks like the barbs want their city" to which I replied, "a shame we have to raze it." He responded back with something like, "yeah i guess so." Interesting....

 

[Kaleb]

interesting little chat. Nice about the axe

We should keep our chariot out of reach, but let's move our Axe 1 first.

We should get CS now, the only real 'tactics' this turn is what to do with our new worker.

Remember also that Shymkent will be our 2nd commerce city with the 2nd Academy, so the earlier we can start working cottages the better.
I think cottage or chop. Looking how roads lie cottage is prob best as he's right there. When first road is done that guy can chop.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Cottage the river grassland...and don't forget to move the chariot out of reach of the woodsman2 axe..

 

[Indiansmoke]

I logged in to have a look.

the only things I did was switch iron city to lighthouse so the chop can go there and send diplo screen for CS to cavaleiros.

We should move that chariot out of range of sancta axe this turn.

Also..worker by actau to move in grassland forest to cottage.

 

[cav scout]

Well lets move the chariot N one tile to see what is happening and take a quick screen shot. Then fall back to a safe position.

 

[Kaleb]

We've got CS now from Cav so we can complete turn. I'm fine with chop going to Lighthouse

Well lets move the chariot N one tile to see what is happening and take a quick screen shot. Then fall back to a safe position.

Remember to move our Axe 1 first and reinforce with our Chariot in case they have a Chariot in range.

if the barb Axe has gone out of view then we should move NW,S with the Chariot.

Revolution time!! Bring in the bureaucrats!

 

[damnrunner]

Indian -

I do not think we should cottage the grassland forest by aktau. Aktau is not going to be a cottaged city and will end up will all farms. In the short term it will be whipped.

Building a cottage on the shared plains river tile could be useful as this could late be switched over to Haz.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Indian -

I do not think we should cottage the grassland forest by aktau. Aktau is not going to be a cottaged city and will end up will all farms. In the short term it will be whipped.

Building a cottage on the shared plains river tile could be useful as this could late be switched over to Haz.

Who said Actau will end up with all farms? What is the point of that?

As I see it there should be 2 farms (1 outside BFC) to irrigate the corn, but that's it..all rest cottage....working cottages while slaving is the optimal way to do it.

Why do you want to farm? To run scientists? First I don't think we can afford to go into caste for a very long time..second alone bhe corn and the other 2 food res we can run 5 great people at size 8...I think that is enough, there is no benefit the farms will provide..much later in the game after biology and possibly running caste we can replace cottages with farms if needed, but until then it is pointless.

 

[damnrunner]

Aktau will be a great people farm city, right?

Right now due to war we work the high food tiles and the mines and whip heavily. Not cottages.

Later we run as many specialists as possible. We are philo and not making use of that trait is crazy.

We can build a library, market, forge, courthouse and 2 temples fairly quickly. That is 8 great people. Later on we get a grocer, observatory, theater, and a few more temples. That will get us up to at least 13 great people.

Yes the city could be a good cottage city - but then where do we run our specialists?

 

[Indiansmoke]

Great people are cheap to begin with and expensive later on. The great library by itself (and maybe 1 etra specialist) will be giving us 22 GPP per turn. That is enough for now.

We need cottages to grow now and give us commerce, later on after biology we can turn them to farms and run lots of great people in actau.

Slaving by working cotages is the optimal way to do it, not working mines, believe me on that one.

All I say for now is that we cottage the river grassland tile that we have, the grassland tile and the plains river tile shared with capital, these 3 are enough for our slaving needs. we wil farm 2 tiles to irrigate the corn anyway..

Also if you calculate what you say you will see that even if we farm all tiles, pre biology the max GP we can run is 7..not 8 and even after biology the max GP we can run by farming everything is 11 not 13...but these things are a long way off...now is what matters.

 

[damnrunner]

My point about the number of great people Aktau can run is that we will want to farm all around the city in order to max out the number of specialists. Building cottages now and building farms over them 50 turns later is waste.

I get your point about working cottages while slaving as this will result in faster population growth. However, there are already the 2 tiles that are shared by the capitol. These will end up being worked by the capitol and I think they should get cottages. But I don’t think the 3rd Aktau only tile should get a cottage. With the two shared tiles Aktau can grow to population 5 and still work only improved tiles. If we are slaving the city, it shouldn’t get over pop 5 any way as the city will grow fastest going from pop 3 back up to pop 5. At which point we whip it back down again. As you said we also want a farm to link up to the corn so if the city does need to work other tiles – it can work these farms – which will result is faster population growth than cottages would anyway.

You are also right that GPs come fast early on and slow later on. That is why we want to get as many as possible as soon as possible. As soon as the war is over – or even if it is not over but we are no longer at such a pressing military disadvantage - we need to switch Aktau to full great person farming mode.

 

[Kaleb]

Ok, I moved the worker by Aktau to the forest - if we chop the chop will be done in 3 turns, same as we finish MC so the chop can go straight into a Trireme.

Regarding Great Library completion:

Spoiler :

We have 219/350 into the GL, leaving 131 remaining.

Currently we have base of 10 so if we don't change any tiles, the chop will give us 40 plus 75% bonus is 70 hammers next turn. After growing and working all mines we'll have a base of 17 which becomes 29 with bonuses.

So it would be:
T99 = 70
T100 = 29
T101 = 29
Total =129 - 2 hammers short!

To get the extra 2 hammers I suggest we do the following:
T99 = delay chop 2 turn (build cottage/road - I prefer road) work grassland forest instead of new cottage. city still grows in 1 turn.
T100 = switch from cottage 1W of Haz. work all mines and forest still
T101 = finish chop. work cottage 1W of Haz again

Giving:
T99 = 11x1.75 = 19
T100 = 18x1.75 = 31
T101 = (17+30)x1.75 = 82
Total = 132

We lose 13 by doing this but I think it's worth it to get the +6 base +16 a turn early! That and one less turn of nail biting. What do people think?

We should still get MC in 3 turns as well, but it will be tight.

 

[cav scout]

I agree with Damnrunner- Aktau should have farms now to irrigate the corn.

Kaleb- What about working the shared mine with Aktau right after Haz grows?

Edit: errr..nevermind. What about switching from a cottage to the grasshill mine this turn instead of the forest? Would we still pop in one turn or would we be 1 shy?

 

[damnrunner]

I trust the king's math. A turn earlier is worth it.

.......I just had another idea. We could switch from the corn to work a mine for one turn. We should have enough food so that this will not result in any starvation and will just reduce our food growth by a turn.

... and another idea - could run non specialist specialists - they get one hammer.

 

[Kaleb]

Kaleb- What about working the shared mine with Aktau right after Haz grows?

When I say 'work all the mines' I mean all of them. Including that one.

For Aktau - what do we do next for production? Two suggestions from me:

Option 1:
T99 Finish Chariot (working grass forest)
T100 2 pop whip temple
T101 Worker for 1 turn to get overflow and chop
T102 Archer until pop 5, switch to worker and finish with whipping.

Option 2:
T99 Finish Chariot (working mine)
T100 Building Temple
T102 Whip temple (chop also done)
T103 overflow into Trireme

 

[mikotian]

btw we should work that 4 hammer 1 gold mine instead of the 4 hammer 0 gold mine.

But Kaleb's plan looks fine.

 

[donsig]

Yes, do what it takes ot get the G Lib done ASAP. For Aktau I like Option 2 and the trireme.