Tancredo: If attacked, bomb Mecca!

[warpus]

Treat them the same way you treat other citizens. No discrimination (except the obvious screening for terrorism and stuff). Once someone is a citizen of your state, he is a citizen of your state.

Sad to say, though, that the "yearly terrorist hit" will probably come from, or with the support of, these people, but that's unavoidable, unfortunately.

So which Muslims do you propose we isolate then? Only the ones living in countries with a Muslim majority? And we isolate the entire country?

 

[aneeshm]

So which Muslims do you propose we isolate then? Only the ones living in countries with a Muslim majority? And we isolate the entire country?

"Isolate" as in, you do not do anything with them except trade. You do not enforce your idea of human rights on them. You do not try to export your culture to them. You do not try to maintain their state's stability for them. You do not help them out when they're in trouble, unless it's something trivial for you. You do not fight radicalism within their country. You do not interfere with their internal affairs. If one of them decides to kill the other, you let them. If they decide to genocide some of their own people, you let them.

You cut off people-to-people contacts. You do not allow their people to come to your country for an education or for immigration, you do not allow (or discourage) your citizens to go to theirs for tourism. You stop all aid unless they request you that it be continued.

If, however, they attack you militarily, state-to-state, you kick their ass all the way to their heaven filled with the virgins.

Probably the only exception would be Pakistan, because letting go of that would mean letting go of nuclear weapons. And if there were a way to control their nukes without any further intervention, I'd endorse that.




As for defining a Muslim country - one whose culture is predominantly and unequivocally Muslim. Such as Iran, Iraq (ignore the war for a minute), Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Sudan, Lebanon, and a few others.

 

[BasketCase]

Aneeshm, how many mosques exist in the U.S.?

Now, how many Christian churches are there in Saudi Arabia.....?

There ya have it, d00d. We're not exporting our culture to them; rather, it would appear to be the other way around.

Normally I don't mind, but the minute they start trying to tell me what God to pray to--time to get out the Paveways and kick some ass.

 

[aneeshm]

Aneeshm, how many mosques exist in the U.S.?

Now, how many Christian churches are there in Saudi Arabia.....?

There ya have it, d00d. We're not exporting our culture to them; rather, it would appear to be the other way around.

Normally I don't mind, but the minute they start trying to tell me what God to pray to--time to get out the Paveways and kick some ass.

I'm not blaming anyone, just telling you the problem.

They think you're trying to export your culture. That's the problem. So might as well cut of all contacts except strictly economic. Anything which comes as a cultural activity (the simple test for this is whether or not the thing is copyrightable) should not go from the USA to these countries. We place a restriction - no American company should sell or promote in any way the movies, books, or music they produce in these countries, or run their TV channels there, without the explicit permission of the local government AND a favourable fatwa from the national clerical body (we know that the latter will probably never be forthcoming, so it's effectively a ban).

Islamic economic policies are a failure. You can't have a functioning economic system without banks. As contacts with the rest of the world diminish, and their society grows more and more insular, the people there will start becoming more and more economically ******** (the competent economists will give up). This will lead, eventually, to a system where they will keep falling further and further behind. Finally, the collapse comes.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

I'm not blaming anyone, just telling you the problem.

They think you're trying to export your culture. That's the problem. So might as well cut of all contacts except strictly economic. Anything which comes as a cultural activity (the simple test for this is whether or not the thing is copyrightable) should not go from the USA to these countries. We place a restriction - no American company should sell or promote in any way the movies, books, or music they produce in these countries, or run their TV channels there, without the explicit permission of the local government AND a favourable fatwa from the national clerical body (we know that the latter will probably never be forthcoming, so it's effectively a ban).

Islamic economic policies are a failure. You can't have a functioning economic system without banks. As contacts with the rest of the world diminish, and their society grows more and more insular, the people there will start becoming more and more economically ******** (the competent economists will give up). This will lead, eventually, to a system where they will keep falling further and further behind. Finally, the collapse comes.

so your goal is the eventual collapse of all muslim nations?

 

[Ecofarm]

The eventual collapse of all dicatatorships and theocracies, so yes, all "muslim" (non-secular) governments (not necessarily nation). The entire population of a country (the nation, or the people) do not need to collapse into ruins, but the governments do.

 

[aneeshm]

so your goal is the eventual collapse of all muslim nations?

My goal is the solution of the problems we face today.

I have come to the conclusion, with great sadness, that there is only one way out of this mess - seal yourself off, and let their nations collapse.

Islam is antithetical to democracy and human rights. It is also antithetical to economic common sense. Therefore, given time, Islamic societies have to collapse. By speeding up with process, by cutting off cultural contacts, we come closer to solving the problem faster.


If you define a "Muslim society" or "Muslim nation" as:

a) One which had declared itself Muslim, and
b) One which follows the Islamic laws, traditions, and systems of government,



and ask if I want their eventual collapse, then I have to say, HELL YES!

 

[BasketCase]

Islamic economic policies are a failure. You can't have a functioning economic system without banks. As contacts with the rest of the world diminish, and their society grows more and more insular, the people there will start becoming more and more economically ******** (the competent economists will give up). This will lead, eventually, to a system where they will keep falling further and further behind. Finally, the collapse comes.

Why should it collapse?

There are societies on Earth that are not hundreds, but THOUSANDS of years behind the rest of the world. As in, they still live in the woods, build grass huts, and hunt with spears. Yes, I mean such societies exist TODAY. In the year 2007. I had a hard time believing it too.

Oh, and something else I should mention: Osama Bin Laden is college-educated. Arab schools dysfunctional? No problem for him. Islam's economy is dysfunctional? Well, guess what--Osama got his financial fortune over HERE in our world. He got to have his cake and eat it too: clinging to Islam without having to deal with Islam's failures.


It's actually a pretty sound solution you came up with, and I would have approved of it had it worked, but I don't think it'll work.

 

[aneeshm]

Why should it collapse?

A parasite, when it loses its host, dies.

There are societies on Earth that are not hundreds, but THOUSANDS of years behind the rest of the world. As in, they still live in the woods, build grass huts, and hunt with spears. Yes, I mean such societies exist TODAY. In the year 2007. I had a hard time believing it too.

I don't have a hard time believing it. Some of them exist in India (well, that's not saying much, because of some of pretty much everything exists in India). They number in the low millions, if I'm not wrong.

The point is, they have not tasted the fruits of modernity - for once you do that, there is no going back. And also, these societies are now slowly integrating into the mainstream.

It's quite funny, in a way. In a treatise on governmental policy written sometime around 200 B.C., an Indian political theorist/analyst has written about how to deal with jungle tribes (back in those days, they could threaten small villages or new settlements). At that time, too, people in the gigantic cities, specially the capitals like Pataliputra or Indraprastha, must have had a hard time believing that such societies existed in spite of everything. It is also notable that even in those days, there was a policy of integration to be followed.

Oh, and something else I should mention: Osama Bin Laden is college-educated. Arab schools dysfunctional? No problem for him. Islam's economy is dysfunctional? Well, guess what--Osama got his financial fortune over HERE in our world. He got to have his cake and eat it too: clinging to Islam without having to deal with Islam's failures.

That is why I suggested isolation. He would not have been able to get an education here. Trade agreements being reciprocal, he would not have been able to make his fortune here.

It's actually a pretty sound solution you came up with, and I would have approved of it had it worked, but I don't think it'll work.

It's not a short-term solution. It is not aimed at simply stopping terrorism. It is aimed at the complete, utter, and irrevocable annihilation of its root. We will have to take the "yearly terrorist hit" until this time comes - and it may come after twenty years, it may come after fifty. But come it will.



This reminds me of a legend I've heard with regard to that same theorist.

Once, as Kautilya was travelling down a road near his city, he happened to step upon a thorny bush that had grown in the way. He found that he had pricked his foot, and a thorn had entered his flesh. He took out another thorn, and used it to remove the first. A boy who lived nearby watched this silently.

The next day, the same boy saw Kautilya pouring something that looked like milk on that bush. Intrigued, he went closer, and asked him as to what he was doing.

Kautilya replied, "This is sweet buttermilk. This bush pricked me yesterday. Now, when I pour this on its roots, it will be absorbed. You see that anthill nest to it? Those ants will come, and will eat away at the roots of this plant, and finish it off. Had I simply cut off the plant, it would have grown again. But now, it can never hurt anyone again - it is utterly destroyed."













It is that which I am aiming for. Do not merely cut off the plant (terrorism). Finish off the roots.

 

[warpus]

Isolation wouldn't work.

What makes you think their societies would collapse if we isolated them?

 

[aneeshm]

Isolation wouldn't work.

What makes you think their societies would collapse if we isolated them?

Because, even though they may be isolated, they will still know that there is a larger world out there. And that will shatter their attempt to live the Islamic dream.

And between the opposing forces exerted by Islam to one side, and the very existence of a much more prosperous outside world on the other, they will tear themselves to pieces.

 

[warpus]

Because, even though they may be isolated, they will still know that there is a larger world out there. And that will shatter their attempt to live the Islamic dream.

And between the opposing forces exerted by Islam to one side, and the very existence of a much more prosperous outside world on the other, they will tear themselves to pieces.

They wouldn't really be that isolated. They would still have access to western goods and services.

I don't really see how you can back up your assertion that muslim countries would collapse if isolated. And collapse to what anyway? What do you think would happen? Muslims would give up being muslim?

 

[El_Machinae]

They'd also be jealous.

And jealous people tend to be destructive.

I think it's better to integrate, liberalism is a powerful incentive to change ones views.

 

[civ_king]

thats like if the Vatican got bombed, the world Catholics and a lot of Christians would kill the attacker

 

[Gooblah]

Holy thread necromancy, Batman!

Wow, this guy's an idiot. (The rep, not the poster)

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

thats like if the Vatican got bombed, the world Catholics and a lot of Christians would kill the attacker

Thank you for reviving this beautiful and loving thread.

 

[scy12]

The undead have risen. Thankfully the once dead but (somehow alive in my sig thread , lives once more).

 

[Cato the Elder]

Even though this is an old thread, it's still amusing that advocates of universal health care and free education are considered extrmemists in America, while guys like Tom Tancredo are perfectly accepted within mainstream politics.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I'm no expert on US politics, but I don't think that is true.

 

[Patroklos]

Even though this is an old thread, it's still amusing that advocates of universal health care and free education are considered extrmemists in America, while guys like Tom Tancredo are perfectly accepted within mainstream politics.

What is amusing is the complete ignorance displayed in the above. Congrats.