tao_1 vanilla emperor training/succession game

[tao]

Some fast feedback before I have to go to the office:

You made your choice and we are now committed to it.

I would have done as follows: production warrior (protect worker), warrior (protect Rome), granary, settler, worker, settler; worker chop forest, irrigate, road, mine bg, road, mine bg, road.

I suggest to go on for now and come back to this situation in about 30 turns to explore how it would have evolved.

For the future, we have to address he following questions:

What (and how) to research after pottery?

RCP3 or 4?

 

[CommandoBob]

You made your choice and we are now committed to it.

I would have done as follows: production warrior (protect worker), warrior (protect Rome), granary, settler, worker, settler; worker chop forest, irrigate, road, mine bg, road, mine bg, road.

For some reason, the 4 turn settler factory does not penetrate my skull. I cannot explain it, I do not like it, but it remains a stubborn and ugly fact.

However,
The worker could be moved to the forest before the next turn and begin chopping next turn. In ten turns he adds 10 shields to the granary. Current shields to settler, nine, would be switched to granary this turn. In four turns Rome grows and will work a forest. So, 9 current shields, plus (4 turns of 3 spt is 12 shields) plus (6 turns of 5 spt is 30 shields) totals to 51 shields before the forest is gone. Add those 10 shields and the total is 61 shields, one too many. If the worker cannot be moved this turn, the overrun will be higher and would require more MM to balance out.
This would put the settler factory behind by two, perhaps three turns.

 

[tao]

@CommandoBob: What is going on? Is something going on?

If you have questions, please feel free to ask them.

If you can't play and need to be skipped, please say so.

 

[CommandoBob]

@CommandoBob: What is going on? Is something going on?

If you have questions, please feel free to ask them.

If you can't play and need to be skipped, please say so.

Well, actually I was waiting on you.

You had pointed out a mistake in my first five turns.
I had replied with a possible solution.
And I was waiting to hear if it was an acceptable solution.

I did not want to play and continue in that mistake.

In my 'solution' post, I should have explained that I would wait for you to respond before I continued my turns. I guess I expected you to read my mind. Sorry.

 

[tao]

There are very few real "mistakes". And there still has to be a game of mine without "mistakes" (lots of them). Often it is just a question of different situation analysis. Thus feel free to continue as you think is good.

 

[Formula51]

Yes, in a training game, there are no mistakes, just different opinions.

I believe RCP4 is the way to go, as it will be nice for IA and MA warfare (big cities = big production)

Going with this, I heartily recommend 1N of the coast cow, as it is on ring one, plus has the ability to pull in 3 bonus food resources (worker factory, anyone?)

 

[choleric]

Could we also think a bit long term and found our next cities 1NE of the coastal wheat and the other 1SW of the coastal cow or is that not ideal?

 

[CommandoBob]

End of Previous Turnset Stats:

Science: Pottery, 2 turns
Treasury: 010 gold, +0 gpt, 0.10.0
Trades:
Cities:

• Rome (2) settler in 7, grows in 4, culture expansion 87

Military:

• 02 warriors, 00 in production
• 01 workers, 00 in production
• 00 settlers, 01 in production

Allowed units 04; current units 03

[IBT] Wake worker, move NE to forest + game

06 3250 BC

Worker begins chopping, done in 10
WarriorFromRome N to see more forest; sees tundra. Ugh.
SouthWarrior SW to see more river


Trading
​

[IBT] We learn Pottery. We begin to learn Bronze Working, which leads to Iron Working and Legions.
<Had to best guess this one. Other choices: Masonry - 24, Writing - 40, The Wheel - 24 and Ceremonial Burial - 12.>
Flip-flop to Writing due in 40. Two reasons; just not sure of which way to go and can build up cash.
9.1.0, +4 gpt

07 3200 BC

SouthWarrior W
WarriorFromRome SE back to Rome to escort settler

Trading
​

08 3150 BC

WarriorFromRome SE
SouthWarrior W, Goody Hut to the west.

Trading
​

09 3100 BC

SouthWarrior, get map of region
WarriorFromRome SE
Rome grows to 3. Lux slider from 0 to 10%.
Now 8.1.1, +3 gpt

Trading
​

10 3050 BC

SouthWarrior W to mountain, meet Iroquois Warrior but will not talk
WarriorFromRome S
Rome change from Settler to Granary, due in 7

Trading
​

Current Turnset Stats:

Science: Writing, 37 turns
Treasury: 021 gold, +3 gpt, 8.1.1
Trades:
Cities:

• Rome (3) granary in 7, grows in 9, culture expansion 82

Military:

• 02 warriors, 00 in production
• 01 workers, 00 in production
• 00 settlers, 00 in production

Allowed units 04; current units 03

Impressions and Comments

We met the Iroquois, but they will not talk to us yet.

Was not sure what to research next, since this had not been discussed. Wanted to go with Bronze Working, which would lead to Iron Working and Legions, our favorite guys with swords. Initially, even selected BW, but then switched to Writing.

Reasons to research Writing: One, would take 40 turns at max science or 40 turns at min science. Could build up our bank account while learning to Write. Two, if this was not the best selection, only three beakers and three turns wasted.

Reasons not research the other techs: (BW) If we get Legions too soon, could have an early Golden Era with a Despotic government and a few small cities. (All techs) In general, no discussion on what to learn next. Since all of these could be learned in less than 40 turns, we would probably keep science as high as possible. Thus, if I selected a less than desired tech, those beakers and those turns would be wasted.

Selecting Writing was a defensive move on my part. It seemed to offer the least amount of risk.


Next turns
Rome will build a granary in the next turn set. Pay attention to the worker chopping the forest and do not let the granary build too fast and not make use of that chop.

The warrior headed to Rome is not needed, since there is not a settler to escort. I changed the worker on turn 6, but forgot to change Rome's build from settler to granary. I realized my mistake at the end of the last turn when the warrior was just north of Rome. The warrior could be used to keep people in order in Rome, however.

Glorious Roman Empire at 3050 BC





And the save is here.

 

[CommandoBob]

RCPs of 3 and 4 with the new territory revealed to us.

We want a conquest victory. Does that decision affect which RCP to use?

RCP 3


RCP 4

 

[tao]

Good turns.

Writing at minimum is exactely the same I would have selected.

As already said, I would have build another warrior before the granary. Now our lone warrior has to defend both the worker and Rome. Where to place him? Definitely not in the middle. If he is in Rome, he cannot in time reach the worker and fortify. If he is fortified on the worker, he needs 2 turns to fortify in Rome. Since Rome's culture has expanded, this is fast enough. OTOH if he is in Rome, we can reduce the lux tax. Let's look at the combat calculator: unfortified regular warrior against barb: 82.1% in our favor, 86.1% if warrior is fortified.
Next player's decision.

Now to our worker: he needs 6 turns to chop the forest (10 shields). We have 32 shields to go for the granary. Currently, we get 5 shields per turn. Thus in 6 turns we get 10+6*5 = 40 shields, i.e. 8 shields too much. Thus we could work the lake instead of the forest for 4 turns giving us 8 additional commerce/gold.
But be careful: we want our granary to complete the turn BEFORE the city grows. Because then we start with the granary half full, otherwise we start with an empty granary. Thus we should only work the lake for 2 or 3 (too lazy to compute - check frequently) turns.

Not trading alphabet to Iroquois will increase our chance of beating them to the more valuable writing. And if we meet another civ knowing bronze, we might be able to make the trade. But check in-between whether Iroquois research alphabet and in that case see that we get at least cb.

Since we are not in densely populated area and we have the no shields lake tiles, I would go for rcp4, but other people might go for rcp3.

PS: What I miss in your post:
Own (up next)
Inkoate
choleric
Formula51
tao
BeefBayford
CommandoBob (just played)

 

[CommandoBob]

Since we are not in densely populated area and we have the no shields lake tiles, I would go for rcp4, but other people might go for rcp3.

Just to state the obvious, with either RCP 3 or 4, we can only build two good cities on the Tiber River that runs from Lake Rome. In each RCP, one will be on ring 1 and the other on ring 2. With the RCP of 3 we can build two cities on the Tiber on ring 1, but the placement is CxC and one of the cities has four mountains in its initial nine tiles. I think we would be better off with one good city.

With RCP of 3, we can build a city on the river to the southwest on ring 3.

I do not know which is best; more exploring would help determine which is better.

 

[Formula51]

Yes, one good city is better, for OCN reasons (no need to put in more cities that will make others useless in the future)

 

[CommandoBob]

Yes, one good city is better, for OCN reasons (no need to put in more cities that will make others useless in the future)

Q. How does the OCN interact with the RCP?

I know that RCP reduces one factor of corruption, based on distance from the capital/Forbidden Palace. I know that OCN stands for Optiomal (?) City Number, which is based on map size.

But I am unclear on how one affects the other.

 

[tao]

Q. How does the OCN interact with the RCP?

I never thought about it. In fact, I hardly ever cared about city placement beyond the second ring.

 

[Own]

I don't think I can play, I've lost interest in civ3 for the most part, and haven't been participating in discussions very much.

 

[tao]

In that case:

Inkoate (up next)
choleric
Formula51
tao
BeefBayford
CommandoBob (just played)

 

[Inkoate]

I got it. I'll play it as soon as I can.

 

[Inkoate]

When I took over:
Writing in 37
Rome was to grow in 9, get a granery in 7 (but not really, because of the 10 shields from the chopping).

IBT - I MM Rome, moving the worker off the forest land and onto the lake, to slow down our granery a little bit (we want to build it just before growing).
The Iriquois warrior moves NE without talking to us.

1. 3000 BC:
Southern warrior moves south to check out this land bridge type thing that seems to be a good bottleneck on the continent.
The Rome Warrior moves back onto the warrior to protect him, which I feel is more important than sitting in Rome right now.

IBT - And sure enough, who pops out of our fog to the north but a barb.
- The Iriquois warrior apparently thinks we smell and moves even further north, into the fog.

2. 2950 BC
Rome warrior fortifies on top of the worker, and prepares for battle.
South warrior goes south.

IBT - I MM Rome again, moving the worker that was on the lake onto a BG. For the moment, Rome grows in 4, warrior chops in 4, and those 10 shields will be the very last 10 shields we need for the granery. This is a magical happening, the only problem is that I don't know if it'll work. In what order do these events happen in game? It's entirely possible that Rome will grow first, and THEN build the granery, and I'm not happy with the possibility of looking stupid in that case. I'll come back to this in a turn to tweak it again to get the granery the turn before the growth.
I also up science research to 30%, putting us at 6.3.1, with 31g and +2gpt
The barb attacks our worker/warrior stack, our valiant warrior defends his honor and his charge, defeating the horrendous barbarians and expanding the light of the great Roman empire...
anyway.

3. 2900 BC
The Rome warrior fortifies again.
Southern warrior goes south again and meets another Iriquios warrior. I contact him, just to see what they got. They have 0g in treasury, they have BW and CB to offer us, but don't want any of our technologies. Trading is my weak spot here... I don't know what to do in this situation, someone point me in the right direction.

IBT - The Iriquios warrior starts moving north.

4. 2850 BC
South warrior moves south yet again, still exploring this land bridge.

IBT - I MM Rome again, moving the worker on the BG over to a forest tile, as part of a plan that will give us our granery guaranteed one turn before Rome grows, which I feel best with.
- The Iriquios warrior moves north again.

5. 2800 BC
Southern warrior moves south yet again.
MM Rome one last time to take the forest worker off duty for a turn, make him a scientist, and we'll be getting our granery next turn.

Comments are welcome of course!
I would upload the save file... but I can't quite figure out how to do that! I know there was a thread somewhere that discussed it, can someone point me to it again?

-Ink

 

[Inkoate]

Some shots from the last turn:

 

[tao]

That all sounds good, except for the following 2 points: You have a scientist in Rome plus

I also up science research to 30%, putting us at 6.3.1, with 31g and +2gpt

The whole point of min research is to get the tech in 40 turns with minimal investment (either 10% science or a lone scientist). Going 30% will just waste money. To make a detailed analysis whether this is one of the rare occasions justifying an early scientist, I have to look at the save.

I would upload the save file... but I can't quite figure out how to do that! I know there was a thread somewhere that discussed it, can someone point me to it again?

When writing a post, use Additional Options - Manage Attachments. That button allows you to upload a file.