tao_1 vanilla emperor training/succession game

[CommandoBob]

3. 2900 BC
The Rome warrior fortifies again.
Southern warrior goes south again and meets another Iriquios warrior. I contact him, just to see what they got. They have 0g in treasury, they have BW and CB to offer us, but don't want any of our technologies. Trading is my weak spot here... I don't know what to do in this situation, someone point me in the right direction.

I think you did the right thing in NOT trading. I know the temptation was present (well, it would have been for me), but common sense prevailed.

We want to win by conquest but we are not playing an Always War game. Bronze Working is nice, because it leads to Iron Working and if we can find iron we can make our UU, the Mighty Red Rome Legion.

So why do I say that you did the right thing by not trading for a tech that leads to our UU?

Because.....we are learning. Not doing but learning.

I have listed some good reasons to get BW from Hiawatha. However, there are good reasons not to get BW from Hiawatha. We would probably have to promise gold per turn, which limits money we get to keep. We may meet someone else that will take a tech of ours for one we can trade to the Iroquois to get BW. We may not want to get BW yet, because if we do build legions, we would trigger our Golden Age when a legion wins its first battle and we may not have enough cities to really make it worthwhile. We may want to head to Republic first, change governments, and then come back and get BW and IW when we have more cities and better production.

And what of Ceremonial Burial? True, we as Romans care little for adorning the dead unless they die in battle. But if we were able to get CB, could we do more with it than BW?

The biggest reason I think you did the right thing in not trading is somewhat more obscure, but just as valid. As a team, we only have the goal of a Conquest Victory. We do not have a plan on how to get that victory. And while it is still early in the game and we do not yet know all our victims, er, I mean neighbours, we need to begin thinking and talking about how we plan to get the techs and units we need to conquer the world.

I do not pretend to be the teacher. But as a fellow student, I will tell you did the right thing by informing the instructor and class of the trade options.

 

[Formula51]

I myself believe that the bottom of the AA tech tree is excellent trading fodder for the AI.

But, I don't think rep is a good idea if we are warmongers, perhaps monarchy.

 

[Inkoate]

Ok, if there are no further comments regarding my first 5 turns, I'll go ahead and play the next 5 tonight.

-Ink

 

[choleric]

So are we still doing this or whats going on?

 

[Inkoate]

Yes, I'm sorry, I'm trying, but it's just been a busy week. If someone else wants to do the last 5 of my turn, I'm ok with that. But I'll be able to play them this weekend, I'm sure.

 

[CommandoBob]

Yes, I'm sorry, I'm trying, but it's just been a busy week. If someone else wants to do the last 5 of my turn, I'm ok with that. But I'll be able to play them this weekend, I'm sure.

You take your last five turns. You know what you wanted to do; anyone else could only guess.

Fatherly Advice Time
I have learned it is better to post a 'I'm delayed' message than to post nothing at all. When someone posted a message that asked 'Hey, CommandoBob, where are you?' it hurt. It was a legitimate question. It needed to be asked. But I could have avoided the question if I had been thinking what other people might be thinking.

At times I like to play a little game called 'Mind Reader'. Since I know my thoughts and my logic, everyone else does too. It does not work that way, especially with a spouse. Do not try this game at home!

General rule: Communication is the key. Post a late or delayed message to let the other players know what is going on. If you/I have to be skipped because of real life, let people know.

Corollary: Communication is also asking for help and admitting that you/I do not have the answer. If you get a suprise in your turnset that you are unsure how to handle, save the game and ask for advice. At work, sometimes when I ask my boss a minor question it leads to a big explanation of how things work together. At times it is information overload, but it is information that I can use later. The same is true here.

(And yes, I am an Inquisitive Idiot!)

 

[Inkoate]

And we're back!
Sorry for the delay all, we have another 5 turns to give ya now!

IBT - Science back to 10%, after I was made to understand why it was there in the first place!

6) 2750 BC - We finish chopping the woods, and gain the 10 shields. I MM Rome a little bit, and we're at granery in 1, growth in 2, which I'm happy about. I set the worker to irrigating the deer square and our warrior in the south continues south down the land bridge.

IBT - nuthin

7) 2710 BC - Rome granery -> settler (10 turns on that). The next person can change this if they feel we really need something else, but I really think we need a second city here. Our warrior goes south yet again.

IBT - Lux to 30% to keep Rome from rioting when they grow.

8) 2670 BC - Warrior heads SE in his further explorations.

IBT - boredom.

9) 2630 BC - Warrior SE

IBT - more boredom.

10) 2540 BC - Warrior heads south and finally finds the Iroquis culture barrier. Worker finishes his irrigation and begins building a road.

The next player needs to decide what we're building next, where we're building the next city and how to defend both Rome and city-2 given the resources we have. Good luck!


choleric (up now)
Formula51
tao
BeefBayford
CommandoBob
Inkoate (just played)

 

[CommandoBob]

No pretty pictures? CommandoBob like pretty pictures. Much easier to look at than nastys old text.

Big Strategy questions:

What techs do we need to conquer the world?

What wonders (great and small) will help us to do that?

While it may seem a bit early to get into these discussions, we do need to have a plan. Our goal is to conquer the world, but we need to plan how to do that. What techs do we really need, what government we want, when do we plan to start our conquest, etc.

And we also need to get down to the nitty-gritty of city placement and using our workers wisely.

If I get time over the next few days I will examine the tech and wonder issue and we can discuss my thoughts. Or someone else could do the same thing and we can discuss their thoughts.

Inkoate, I am curious. If you were to play another ten turns, what would you do?

 

[tao]

And we're back!
Sorry for the delay all, we have another 5 turns to give ya now!

There is no problem in a delay, if the other people are told about it in advance.

I MM Rome a little bit, and we're at granery in 1, growth in 2, which I'm happy about.

This is the way it should be. Good.

Rome granery -> settler (10 turns on that). The next person can change this if they feel we really need something else, but I really think we need a second city here.

Yes. And no. Let's have a look at Rome: it grows in 2 turns to pop 5 and finishes the settler in 3 turns. (Note: the additional tile worked from the just grown citizen will not produce enough shields to finish the settler. This additional production on growth is nearly always part of a successful settler factory.) In our case, Rome drops back to pop 3. Not so good.

We can apply micromanagement working 2 lake tiles instead of the 2 forests to grow next turn (plus rake in 4 commerce). Then we shuffle tiles again to work 1 or 2 bg tiles and will get growth plus a settler in 3 turns. We are 1 turn later, but end with pop 4 instead of 3 and that will help a lot in the future. We need defense against the barbarians!

IMHO much better would have been to build a warrior before starting the settler. This would have avaided slowing the settler build and we would now have a warrior.

 

[tao]

No pretty pictures? CommandoBob like pretty pictures. Much easier to look at than nastys old text.

True. But to really learn and understand what goes on, you have to look at the save file.

What techs do we need to conquer the world?

There are those exceptional players capable of doing AAC Ancient Age Conquest using swords and horsemen. I never managed to do this. Depending on the map conditions, knights or cavalry are my units of choice.

What wonders (great and small) will help us to do that?

Again a lot depends on the map. On archipelago The Great Lighthouse is often crucial. Otherwise I usually don't waste shields on Great Wonders but prefer to use Gretat Leaders to build them. If you have enough enemies to fight, building an early army to enable Heroic Epic is a good idea. On pangea, obviously Sun Tzu's is great. If you need to upgrade lots of horsemen to knights, knights to cavalry, Leonardo's helps a lot. If you are short of luxuries, Hanging Gardens is good for happiness. In other words, there is no simple rule that always applies.

What techs do we really need, what government we want, when do we plan to start our conquest, etc.

Wheel and iron are important to learn about resource locations. But we hope the AIs research them for us (this is emperor and AI research is fast) and we can trade for them. If fighting superior opponents, mathematics and catapults are indispensable. To learn about the world and reach other continents map making is necessary. What to research after writing IMHO is too early to tell. It depends a lot on the contacts we make (or not).

Unless doing always war, I usually prefer republic over monarchy because of the superior production and commerce; especially if I have to research up to cavalry.

 

[choleric]

Alright, im going to start this first thing on monday.

We can apply micromanagement working 2 lake tiles instead of the 2 forests to grow next turn (plus rake in 4 commerce). Then we shuffle tiles again to work 1 or 2 bg tiles and will get growth plus a settler in 3 turns. We are 1 turn later, but end with pop 4 instead of 3 and that will help a lot in the future. We need defense against the barbarians!

I will be sure to to do this, also a few questions:

Where are we looking to place this next city?
What tiles are to be improved?
What shoud I do if the Iroqouis come a knockin?

 

[tao]

Where are we looking to place this next city?
What tiles are to be improved?
What shoud I do if the Iroqouis come a knockin?

With so much space to settle, IMHO we should do rcp4. And the best site is the forest north of the cow.

First priority is to bring the settler factory in Rome up. Thus the worker has to mine the 2 bgs.

Iroquois hopefully are busy expanding and chasing barbs. AIs like to do this on higher levels.

PS: I would build at least 2 warriors after the settler - one each for our (soon) 2 cities.

 

[choleric]

Alrighty here we are...


2590 MM

IBT Nada

1-2550 Warior to Iroqouis border, MM Rome, Lux to 50%

IBT nada

2-2510 warrior sits on bottleneck(dont know what to do for exploration)

IBT barb approaches Rome from S

3-2470 worker to bg, move warrior to defend rome

IBT 2 more barbs approach from E

4-2430 settler finished, building warrior in 2 turns, worker builds road

IBT Barbs close in

5-2390 warrior finnished in 1, lux back to 30% (forgot to change it earlier)



Let me know what course I should take.
Do I build another settler after the last warrior?
What do I do as far as exploration?

P.S. Dont know if it matters but we got a palace improvement

 

[CommandoBob]

What military do we have in Rome?

 

[tao]

Let me know what course I should take.
Do I build another settler after the last warrior?
What do I do as far as exploration?

Let't hope to defeat the barbarians. Then I would send a settler/warrior combo south to the 2nd city site. And yes, I would build another warrior as escort for the following settler.

And I suggest to continue exploring south towards and beyond the Iroquois. Don't bloch the bottleneck, because that prevents the Iroquois from hunting down the barbarians. And since we have enough space to expand: if they found a few towns north of the bottleneck, we will conquer them.

 

[choleric]

What line of production should I follow in Veii and Rome too I guess?
I will finish my turns either tonight or tomarrow.

 

[CommandoBob]

What line of production should I follow in Veii and Rome too I guess?

One key to victory in a SG is a settler factory. I cannot recall if Rome was to be our settler factory or not. From tao's last post, Rome is not ready yet to be the factory.

What might be acceptable is to have the better producing city, (Rome) build settlers and the other city build warriors. Send the warriors to Rome to escort the settlers to their new home. Keep a warrior in Rome and Veii to help prevent rioting (crowd control) and self-defense (barb whacking).

As of now, Rome has built a settler and is building a warrior. Escort the settler with the warrior to their new home. While the warrior/settler pair are walking, Rome is building the next settler. Chances are this settler will be finished before Veii can build a warrior on its own. So for settler #3, we may (cringe) have to send the settler unescorted to its new home. After that, though, I would expect Veii to be able to supply a warrior to pair up with Rome's settlers.

I am sure tao and others could find a way to improve on this plan. This is a situation they have faced many times, while we have not. I would also read back through tao's post in this log; he may already have a plan laid out.

 

[tao]

One key to victory in a SG is a settler factory. I cannot recall if Rome was to be our settler factory or not.
...
As of now, Rome has built a settler and is building a warrior. Escort the settler with the warrior to their new home.

Yes, true. And Rome will be our settler factory as I explained somewhere earlier in this thread. But it needs to alternate between sizes 5 and 7 to do so. Thus it must grow. Therefore I would build another warrior before starting the next settler.

 

[CommandoBob]

Yes, true. And Rome will be our settler factory as I explained somewhere earlier in this thread. But it needs to alternate between sizes 5 and 7 to do so. Thus it must grow. Therefore I would build another warrior before starting the next settler.

Hmm.

If Rome needs to be between 5 and 7 for the factory to work, why did we build a settler and delay that growth?

I know you have discussed what Rome needs to build. But I think I missed something in that discussion; I just do not know what I missed.

 

[tao]

Hmm.

If Rome needs to be between 5 and 7 for the factory to work, why did we build a settler and delay that growth?

Because not only the size matters, but also the available improved tiles. Currently, Rome can grow faster than it can collect the 30 shields necessary for a settler.

Additionally there is a strong argument that - if a good second city site is available(!) - you should build an early settler to get your second city up. And the cow site is very good.