Tasers! Again!

[Cheetah]

Video in the link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/dec/15/philadephia-police-taser-girl-video

Pennsylvania police officer filmed firing taser at teenage girl - video

CCTV footage shows a police officer pushing a 14-year-old girl against a parked car and firing a taser at her groin. Shortly before the taser was fired the teenager is seen raising her hands in surrender. She received hospital treatment after the incident in Allentown, Pennsylvania

Though I wonder if it's even any point in making this thread...

That incident would have led to an absolute outrage if it happened in Norway. While in the US this is the officially preferred method according to what I'm hearing from many Americans on this forum.

If I understand this correctly - the official way:

A grown police officer, with other police officers nearby, is not able to - and isn't expected to - handle a 14-year old girl, and tasing her is therefore the preferred method as it causes the least risk of injuries to all parties.

I'm almost ready to accept the real truth. A few more weeks and I can probably watch North Korean news without flinching.

 

[Tarquelne]

A grown police officer, with other police officers nearby, is not able to - and isn't expected to - handle a 14-year old girl, and tasing her is therefore the preferred method as it causes the least risk of injuries to all parties.

Well, no. The differences between the situation here and the one in the previous thread should be obvious.

First, the alleged crime not life-threatening (or only veeery tenously so). and the immediate situation didn't look risky: Pinned against something is supposed to be endgame - cuff 'em. If the taser were going to be used it should have been well before that point.

Taser = fall, and that's definetly more likely to cause injury than wrestling an adolescent girl.

Switching to a taser gave the girl the opportunity to run or - god forbid - strike the officer. Increasing the danger.

OTOH - given the nature of her alleged crime, the obstructing car, her youth and the nearby officers that be a perfect time to de-escalate the situation and give the girl the opportunity to surrender.

It seems the girl used that moment to signal surrender. So another reason to not use the taser. The officer almost certainly decided to use the taser, jumped back, and followed through on his decision. But given the lack of threat she should have been given the option to surrender. That she did implies the officer fundamentally mis-read the situation.

Edit: And looking at the video again, I think he did have time to react to her new stance.

Where in the previous case the taser use seemed (IMO) borderline-allowable and within policy, this one doesn't seem look close. In each case "lazy or incompetent pig" seems like a reasonable explanation. But while the previous case had some mitigating factors I don't see any here.

 

[GinandTonic]

She surrenders, he shoots her anyway. God knows what US law says but if a soldier did that on the battlefield it would be technically illegal under international law, less lethal or not.

 

[Cheetah]

Well, that's the selling point for tasers, isn't it? Tasers are non-lethal, so police are free to shoot with it as much as they like.

 

[Quackers]

You can see at like 18-19 seconds she has her hands up around his face and resisting arrest(?).
Probably better to just use the threat of the taser in that situation then to actually taser her because as soon as he goes for the taser she has her hands in the air and backs off, thats when you tell her to put her hands around her back and handcuff her. Then again she is only 14 but with a grown up adult body already! Ahh difficult, difficult call

Btw that link is dangeorusly close to the Guardian "comment" section, do not enter if you value logic and reason!

 

[Labtec600]

I miss the good ole days when police physically restrained people by tackling them to the ground. Let em go to the hospital for a few broken bones or the occasional death by suffocation. None of this going to the hospital for the cuts the barbs leaves.

Who is with me?

 

[woody60707]

Well if he touched her, he would of been a pedophile. Seems like the safest option.

 

[woody60707]

And what happen to the other tread. This would of been a lot better story then one about the cops tasering the 80yr old lady... I mean the bat crazy knife wielding lady who is yelling how she will kill everyone and other racist comments. It nice to read about a taser story that is at least mostly true.

 

[Aroddo]

do cops get a quota for arrests?

i know that some cities have minimum quotas for prison population, meaning they are bound by contract with private prison companies to guarantee at least a 90% degree of utilization.

pretty despicable and it creates all the wrong incentives for law makers and enforcers.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

You can see at like 18-19 seconds she has her hands up around his face and resisting arrest(?).

I'm going to use a word I don't normally resort to, and say that the crime of "resisting arrest" and how much it entails is incredibly Orwellian. I mean, yes, I think that running while the cops chase you should result in increased severity of the crime when prosecuted, but it can also include any sort of struggling whatsoever, no matter how unrealistic any expectation of their success is. For example, this girl's struggling. Guess what, when most people are struck or tackled or thrown against something, their reaction is to parry that thrust. It's almost subconscious, and the only way to minimize it happening is for someone to be so complacent and completely unquestioning of authority for it to never cross their mind that resistance in any form is even an option. Do what the authority figure says, without question or thought, and reflexively. Even soldiers don't behave that way, it's barbaric that the civilian population is expected to do so.

But then there are bosses who are entirely within their legal rights to treat their workers in such a way, so I guess that seed was already sown long ago.

 

[Dreadnought]

Well if he touched her, he would of been a pedophile. Seems like the safest option.

Completely agree.

If he tried to wrestle her in an effort to not use the taser, this thread would be about sexual assault instead.

Oh, and honestly, there's perhaps a half-second between her "surrendering" and him firing the taser. Don't resist arrest if you wish to avoid getting tasered.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Come on America, your relation to sex can not be that twisted that the pedophile-argument is actually valid, right?

 

[Cheetah]

I can't tell who's ironic anymore!

 

[LucyDuke]

I'm not clicking. It's disgusting that "it doesn't kill you! (usually!)" means tasers are considered perfectly safe. There should be as much paperwork for a taser firing as a gunshot.

 

[Theov]

Well, that's the selling point for tasers, isn't it? Tasers are non-lethal, so police are free to shoot with it as much as they like.

because they can doesn't mean they should

 

[Crezth]

I'm not clicking. It's disgusting that "it doesn't kill you! (usually!)" means tasers are considered perfectly safe. There should be as much paperwork for a taser firing as a gunshot.

What I've been saying for weeks.

 

[LucyDuke]

What I've been saying for weeks.

Probably more patiently.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I'm not clicking. It's disgusting that "it doesn't kill you! (usually!)" means tasers are considered perfectly safe. There should be as much paperwork for a taser firing as a gunshot.

This. Soooo, this. And in this tone too.

 

[Tarquelne]

Completely agree.

If he tried to wrestle her in an effort to not use the taser, this thread would be about sexual assault instead.

He was wrestling with her before the taser... no one's accused him of having his fun and then finishing it off with a tasering, so I'd say that's an unfounded accusation.

Oh, and honestly, there's perhaps a half-second between her "surrendering" and him firing the taser.

Enough time if he wasn't already set on tasering.

Don't resist arrest if you wish to avoid getting tasered.

Resist = weapons free - even for tasers - is contrary to good police policy (tending toward "all police policy"), the law, ethics, and common sense.

Replace "tasered" with "torture and execution of your whole family for three generations in each direction". It should highlight the basic principle.

 

[Takhisis]

Since Tasers have been proven to be quite harmful devices, can anyone tell me what the rules and laws for owning one as a private citizen are, if any?