Tea Party leader desirous of Property requirement for voting

[Tee Kay]

I haven't even gotten most of my education from society. I believe pre-school and that's it. (Are charter schools funded by tax money? If so then 3rd and 4th as well.)

If you go to a private school, only society's support could make it possible.

Low crime rates I agree with though.

Well, that's one.

 

[GhostWriter16]

I never claimed society never did anything for me though so that's a strawman. Just because society did something for me does not mean they own me.

 

[Tee Kay]

we make it without any help from the government.

There's the low crime rate...

 

[GenMarshall]

As for living off government money, listen to what I am saying. Three years is more than the amount of time you should even be ALLOWED to be on welfare.

Three years is not enough, a lifetime is plenty!

If you aren't contributing anything to society, why do you deserve a voice in how that society is run? Answer: Because stealing is supposedly OK if it "Helps the poor."

Have you have no heart?

 

[galdre]

I haven't even gotten most of my education from society. I believe pre-school and that's it. (Are charter schools funded by tax money? If so then 3rd and 4th as well.)

Low crime rates I agree with though.

As for living off government money, listen to what I am saying. Three years is more than the amount of time you should even be ALLOWED to be on welfare.

If you aren't contributing anything to society, why do you deserve a voice in how that society is run? Answer: Because stealing is supposedly OK if it "Helps the poor."

you seriously don't know what it's like to be unemployed - the longer you are without a job, the harder it is to get one. It becomes a spiral that is very difficult to get out of.

I knew a guy who went 2 years looking for work - he was willing to take anything but simply couldn't get a job. He finally found one cleaning hospitals at night for very low pay - and it took 2 years to get even that.

an unemployment rate means just that, there are x% of the population who can not find a job

 

[GhostWriter16]

There's the low crime rate...

You are aware I meant without using welfare correct?

Three years is not enough, a lifetime is plenty!

Because you definitely deserve to have all your needs paid for by the government. THAT makes me sick.

Have you have no heart?

I would have more of one if you weren't pretending the government owes you something. They don't. And neither does the world or a company. I genuinely hope you get a job, but you have no right to make anyone hire you or to steal from people. And it is not right that a certain segment of the population can contribute no money to the community and yet have a voice, however small, in how it is spent.

EDIT:

you seriously don't know what it's like to be unemployed - the longer you are without a job, the harder it is to get one. It becomes a spiral that is very difficult to get out of.

I knew a guy who went 2 years looking for work - he was willing to take anything but simply couldn't get a job. He finally found one cleaning hospitals at night for very low pay - and it took 2 years to get even that.

an unemployment rate means just that, there are x% of the population who can not find a job

That doesn't mean other people owe them portions of their paychecks. That's why charity is better than welfare, it does not belong to them. And our money does not belong to the government.

 

[GenMarshall]

I would have more of one if you weren't pretending the government owes you something. They don't. And neither does the world or a company.

They do, They defensively DO!!

but you have no right to make anyone hire you

Yes I do. Even if it's done by force with a worker's revolution.

or to steal from people.

If your beloved Government cuts off benifts and welfare. Where do we turn to? Crime. So yes, we'll gladly steal to survive and not be placed in the notion of social darwinism.

And it is not right that a certain segment of the population can contribute no money to the community and yet have a voice, however small, in how it is spent.

It's not right to strip votes away from that particular population. Everyone, from the rich to the poor should have a voice. Not just the rich and the have doos. How would you like if your voting rights were stripped away just because you are rich.

 

[galdre]

That doesn't mean other people owe them portions of their paychecks. That's why charity is better than welfare, it does not belong to them. And our money does not belong to the government.

I thought you were supposed to "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's"?

charity misses people. I knew a Christian family with 2 kids who lost there home. You know what kept them off the street? A shelter funded by the state.

Yes, there are people who abuse the system. But frankly I'd rather accept the waste created by the minority who abuse the system and have the help there for those who really do need it

 

[GhostWriter16]

They do, They defensively DO!!

Why is that? Why do you have the right to take from other people?

Yes I do. Even if it's done by force with a worker's revolution.

Any such revolution would be put down, and its leaders probably given the firing squad for treason. I advise you don't try it.

If your beloved Government cuts off benifts and welfare. Where do we turn to? Crime. So yes, we'll gladly steal to survive and not be placed in the notion of social darwinism.

Then you go to jail most likely. Fined heavily if you shoplifted. I would recommend against it.

It's not right to strip votes away from that particular population. Everyone, from the rich to the poor should have a voice. Not just the rich and the have doos. How would you like if your voting rights were stripped away just because you are rich.

Then everyone should contribute to the government. Not necessarily the same amount of money, but the same percentage of what they earn. If we had an even sales tax, I'd be OK with what you are suggesting. But since a certain group of people are not only paying no income tax, but are actually receiving money from the government from other people's work, why should they have a say in where the money goes? Its not theirs!

 

[GenMarshall]

Why is that? Why do you have the right to take from other people?

Survivalism.

But since a certain group of people are not only paying no income tax, but are actually receiving money from the government from other people's work, why should they have a say in where the money goes? Its not theirs!

Umm, you forgot something. With unemployment benifits YOU DO PAY INCOME TAX!!!! It's still regarded as taxable income. Nice try though.

Even people who DONT get anything from the government have the right to vote.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Survivalism

.

The ends justify the means? If that's the case, whoever's house you are stupid enough to break into has the right to use lethal force.

We should just respect property rights. Because then a whole lot of problems are solved.

Umm, you forgot something. With unemployment benifits YOU DO PAY INCOME TAX!!!! It's still regarded as taxable income. Nice try though.

Yeah, you take money from the People, and then pay them a portion of it back. Number one, its the stupidest idea ever, why not just give you less and not tax it? Number 2, taxes paid on welfare wouldn't count.

Even people who DONT get anything from the government have the right to vote.

Naturally.

 

[GenMarshall]

The ends justify the means? If that's the case, whoever's house you are stupid enough to break into has the right to use lethal force.

Sorry, but no. Nice try to keep a solid hold of your ivory towers while the poor and unemployed are starving and struggling on the streets!

Yeah, you take money from the People, and then pay them a portion of it back. Number one, its the stupidest idea ever, why not just give you less and not tax it? Number 2, taxes paid on welfare wouldn't count.

Wrong, Employers foots the bill for unemployment benefits, not the populus. Nice try.

1. It's not a stupid idea. It's a fact that it's still taxable income in uncle Sam's
2. Umm, yes, taxes paid on welfare IS counted because it is a form of INCOME

 

[GhostWriter16]

Sorry, but no. Nice try to keep a solid hold of your ivory towers while the poor and unemployed are starving and struggling on the streets!

If the end justifies the means, then the end justifies the means, you can't have it both ways, if you (Meaning anyone, not you specifically) breaks into my house armed, I will attempt killing them, if unarmed, I threaten force to make them leave.

Wrong, Employers foots the bill for unemployment benefits, not the populus. Nice try.

Employers are part of the populace.

1. It's not a stupid idea. It's a fact that it's still taxable income in uncle Sam's

Its a stupid idea because its inefficient.

2. Umm, yes, taxes paid on welfare IS counted because it is a form of INCOME

Is stealing a form of income? Well, under the IRS probably. Under the IRS, they actually have laws that make you report illegal income. Morons. Hence why they should be abolished.

And by the way, if you'd like to debate, kill the appeals to emotion. I have no emotions, at least not on the internet, but it's getting irritating. Next time I will not bother to respond unless your argument actually debates.

 

[Thedrin]

How on earth is Unemployment benefits stealing?! Please enlighten all of us how unemployment is stealing. Because it's certainly not.

Well, I do agree with the necessity for unemployment benefit in society, so I'm not arguing against it. The following arguement uses language that does not reflect my own views on the unemployed and requires a far dimmer view of society than I have, but I have found it to be a useful arguement when dealing with those who are opposed to the idea of unemployment benefit;

To paraphrase a justification for the existence of the Thieves' Guild in Terry Pratchett's Discworld books, "You can reduce crime a small amount by paying the police to work a lot more, or you can reduce crime a lot by paying criminals to work less".

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

Alexander Hamilton would love that.

 

[Brian Shanahan]

. Even Jesus said to have compassion to the poor and the unemployed. I guess that message got lost someplace.


Its pooled into a large fund, it's not just one employer but many employers. Why should they? Because it is a right thing to do to give a safety net to the employees who have gotten the axe. How are you going to buy for your own food? your own transportation (gas, mass transit, etc)? and bills? Not everyone has a fat bank account to fall on.


And why not? It's still income that is given to the individual. Thus it should be taxed and counted for voting purposes. I'm sorry but it should be counted.

I myself and other honest to good unemployed individuals would certainly not like have our voting rights infringed upon and taken away. It's just plain wrong to deny the right to vote on the basis of taxable income.


Are you seriously assuming that EVERYONE who gets welfare is abusing the system? I've got news for you, there ARE people who don't abuse the system. Some are even reluctant to even accept welfare because it is there safety net


Sorry, I'm not. End of story and drop the subject.

Honestly you should ignore Dommy, his levels of idocy will only give you troubles otherwise.
Moderator Action: Flaming.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[illram]

Another discussion derailed.

 

[.Shane.]

Another discussion derailed.

I am going to ask a mod to split off all this pollution.

 

[Whomp]

Moderator Action: Lots of spam and unrelated discussion has been deleted.

Civgeneral and Domination3000- enough with the quote fest. Take it somewhere else.

 

[Cutlass]

I am going to ask a mod to split off all this pollution.

You have a place for the discussion that certain people can't go....