Team 3 Starting Position

[Sullla]

Map creation is finished! Here is the picture of your starting position for discussion:

A few quick notes for the game host and teams involved:

- The game is saved in Worldbuilder format. This was (by far) the easiest way for me to do the editing, and I have been told that PitBoss has no problems accepting Worldbuilder saves.

- The game is currently set to Noble difficulty. This was due to the fact that the AIs get various bonuses on higher difficulty levels, which we don't want. Game host, please make sure to set all five teams to Monarch difficulty when we start, as agreed upon here in the forums.

- Rather than fooling with team names, I've left the default ones. To rename all the important details, simply type Alt-D and fill in your team's preferences.

- Remember to come up with your team's password and send it to the game host! We'll need that before we can start too.

That should be everything, at least in theory. I'm really hoping I did this correctly, as I put a lot of time into crafting the map. You're going to enjoy this one, trust me.

 

[Krill]

The settler is on a plains hill?

PS Jungle sucks big time. I thought jungle was supposed to be removed from teh capitals' faat cross?

 

[Sullla]

Three minutes after posting, and already griping from team members! I think that may be a new record.

 

[Krill]

Also, you said this was a standard size map. Is it OK if you state if it is a standard dtandard size map? Because some map scripts have larger or smaller sizes than standard (ie teambattleground and highlands)? Obviously I'd expect all teams to be given the infomation.

 

[Krill]

It's not realy gripping, I'm just wondering the reasons for you to handicap us in such a manner. I could ramble about "You might have done this to all teams" or "But you gave us fish and irrigated wheat, AND started us on a plains hill with lots of forests (EDIT so we have to expect some downsides to our start".

 

[Krill]

Sad thing is there isn't anything to sim; settle in place, build a work boat first and then a worker, researching to BW first nets us a worker by turn 15 and an improved fish tile, and BW around turn 19-20.

 

[Krill]

Utilising the tiles we can see, I can get us in slavery by turn 30 with a worker, settler just built (slaved from size 4->2), 3 warriors and a second worker in 4 to help with roading/chopping

 

[Karhu]

Sad thing is there isn't anything to sim; settle in place, build a work boat first and then a worker, researching to BW first nets us a worker by turn 15 and an improved fish tile, and BW around turn 19-20.

I get the worker and BW both on turn 15.

Work plains hill for 3 = Work boat and Mining on turn 6.
Park boat on fish, switch to working fish = Worker and BW in 9.
Complete at turn 15.

Did you work on growing the city during the work boat phase?

Edit: Game speed is normal, isn't it?

 

[Krill]

Yeah, it's normal speed, but when you started the game, did you only make it with 5 civs, or did you start with 7, and did you start it on a standard size map? And what difficulty are you playing teh game on? I thought this was monarch, so my sim might be out if we are only playing on prince or noble.

 

[Viva_Chingon]

I would agree with the Workboat first then Worker. Growing while the workboat is coming out seems like it would help the settlers come a little quicker.

From my observation, we should have a fish and wheat, a worker, a settler, mining, bronze working, the wheel and be working on pottery and a second worker by turn 30.

Furthermore, this can be done without whipping any of our population (read: creating any unhappiness) or even having adopted Slavery yet. Alternatively, we could make the switch on T29 after our settler pops. Either way, at T30 workers take 6 turns and settlers take 10 with a city population of 2.

 

[Krill]

I don't know about tech paths after BW, we might decide to get AH if our second city is going to have a pasture for a food source.

 

[Viva_Chingon]

In these sims we're running we can't actually explore...I think the next tech direction should certainly be decided based on what we find out there. Either way, would you build farms or cottages on those grassland river tiles? I lean toward cottages to get them growing ASAP finding my cities hitting their caps and making the farms pointless...

 

[Krill]

Oh, I would want to chop those tiles and cottage them, but in the early game we'll probably want to chop and mine the 3 river hills for 14 hammers per turn, and +3 food per turn for easy 6 turn settlers and 4 turn workers until we have 4-5 tcities and enough workers, then start working the cottages (IMO).

So chop the grasslands early (I'd probably want 4 workers before the third settler, not sure though), to chop the 3 grassland forests into settlers and then have the workers road out and improve the new cities.

 

[Karhu]

Yeah, it's normal speed, but when you started the game, did you only make it with 5 civs, or did you start with 7, and did you start it on a standard size map? And what difficulty are you playing teh game on? I thought this was monarch, so my sim might be out if we are only playing on prince or noble.

I ran Monarch, but with only on a duel map so that it would load fast. Map size effects tech rate?

I would agree with the Workboat first then Worker. Growing while the workboat is coming out seems like it would help the settlers come a little quicker.

I my simulation, which might be flawed, it was faster not to grow during the work boats construction.

 

[Viva_Chingon]

At this point I think anything else would be getting ahead of ourselves. I've run a few simulations myself and the earliest I've been able to get the settler out and ready to move (after having a worker and work boat built) is turn 26. This is w/out adopting Slavery yet and only chopping the forest S of the wheat.

Further than that though is tough to judge because we don't even know where our second city will be or whether we'll have access to copper yet...will there be horses out there?

And Darius is out there...you know Sullla gave him horses somewhere nearby. So we can count on him wanting to get crazy with his Immortals early. And, on top of that, Pacal's UU is a spearman replacement so Team 2 will likely target Team 1, 3 or 4.

And one more consideration is that Sullla put that jungle tile there as a design consideration to force us into researching Iron Working sooner than later...from that standpoint everyone likely has one in their starting square (with Pacal possibly having 2/3?).

 

[Viva_Chingon]

I my simulation, which might be flawed, it was faster not to grow during the work boats construction.

After playing around a little more, I agree with this result!

But I still don't get mining in less than 8 turns.
And I'm seeing a Worker in (7) and Bronze Working in (11) after that (using hills till workboat then switching to improved fish).

 

[Krill]

I ran Monarch, but with only on a duel map so that it would load fast. Map size effects tech rate?

Yeah, which is why the techs on a huge map take alot longer than the techs on a duel size map...you have to make the simulation on a standard size map, with 5 other civs to simulate the other teams; as we get contact with those teams and we gain bonus beakers towards techs we are researching and they know, we can simulate it in game.

I my simulation, which might be flawed, it was faster not to grow during the work boats construction.

Yeah, it's quickest to settle in place and work the forests/plains/hill for 5 hammers/turn to get the wb on turn 6 (I get mining turn 8...) and the worker turn 15 (BW turn 19) and a farm on the wheat by turn 20

 

[Krill]

At this point I think anything else would be getting ahead of ourselves. I've run a few simulations myself and the earliest I've been able to get the settler out and ready to move (after having a worker and work boat built) is turn 26. This is w/out adopting Slavery yet and only chopping the forest S of the wheat.

I take it you are staying at size 1 to get the settler so fast? It would be wiser to grow to size 2 and work the wheat, it is irrigated the turn we grow to size 2. We can also have a warrior finished the turn after that (t21) and get a settler out by turn 29 if we stagnate growth at size 2 (or grow to size three and chop a grassland forest and then a hill forest, with enough overflow for a worker in 4)

Further than that though is tough to judge because we don't even know where our second city will be or whether we'll have access to copper yet...will there be horses out there?

And Darius is out there...you know Sullla gave him horses somewhere nearby. So we can count on him wanting to get crazy with his Immortals early. And, on top of that, Joao's UU is a spearman replacement so Team 2 will likely target Team 1, 3 or 5.

And one more consideration is that Sullla put that jungle tile there as a design consideration to force us into researching Iron Working sooner than later...from that standpoint everyone likely has one in their starting square (with Pacal possibly having 2/3?).

Yeah, but the point is we don;t have many spare tiles for copper to pop up in, so we want to get a settler out there to settle it and be able to build a spear or to, so we do want the settler quickly, and the workers to hook it up.

EDIT: Pacal has teh spear replacement, not joao...

 

[Viva_Chingon]

Pacal...right, typo...thanks for catching it.

I'm not suggesting we rush to Iron Working...just pointing out an interesting feature of Sullla's map.

Workers are good...and we seem to have 3-4 ways that will guarantee us 2 workers and a settler with a couple choice resources and few more techs by turn 30. Makes me happy.

 

[Krill]

Yeah, we don't really have to alter any plans until turn 15 really, so long as we aren't right on top of someone, but we need to scout out potential city sites pretty quickly because we aren't going to have a second warrior until turn 21 at the earliest (so long as we only work improved tiles).