Team GONG Embassy

[cubsfan6506]

Yeah I like the gold actually. One pocket to the other. Remind them that this will also drive a spike between Babe and Gong. I like bringing Gong closer to us until the mid industrial age.

 

[sirdanilot]

That is in fact a lot of shields we have to build. We should simply tell free that we have to build Bach's by hand, and that the science boost we get from it (well, indirectly) will benefit them aswell, as we are still in the Maap.

 

[cubsfan6506]

I say we don't remind them about science. I say we try to play it off as a simple waste. Or how about we get a prebuild, announce it later and say we can't find anything fair so lets race to it.

 

[General_W]

- well, that'd be the aggressive position
I think even FREE would see through that ploy, unfortunately.

I'm thinking our best bet may be to put on our most smiley salesman face, and see if we can't convince FREE to take some modest gold. I suppose we can always raise our offer from there – as long as it's not so low as to be insulting to them.

Something like this:

Dear FREE allies,

We just received this back from GONG:

Not really! This is an Example! "We'd like option C"

We're really surprised that they would choose this option, but we think it's very good news for our alliance!

First of all – this thwarts a trade between BABE and GONG. Not only does our alliance profit from a deal that BABE/GONG almost certainly would have done anyway, but there's a decent chance that BABE will be really annoyed and we can drive a wedge between them.

Secondly, we divert GONG off to researching a tech that doesn't do them any good, and doesn't get them any closer to the Industrial Ages… allowing us to expand our lead.


Now – since we can't share Bach's Cathedral – we'd like to propose that The Council gift 150 gold to FREE for the right to build Bach's if we can find a place to spare the 600 shields!
This will help us run a higher science rate (slightly less luxury slider needed) which certainly helps both of us in the alliance. Also, we woouldn't then need to send the Music tech to you- further hiding the extent of our cooperation.

What do you think?

Your Brothers in Bluish,
General_W, speaking with the voice of The Council

… course, GONG may just come back and decline any deal totally… but we can dream! And it's probably best to be ready for option C just in case (especially so, since jb indicated he liked it)
Thoughts?

 

[cubsfan6506]

Take out the Purple smile face it makes it seem that we are obviously planning on building it.

 

[donsig]

I think we should hold of on telling FREE anything. GONG hasn't officially chosen an option yet and may want to back out of C.

I'm also not too keen on building ToE for FREE for free. Let's not give away so much just yet!

 

[Paul#42]

I'd like to offer them to build ToE, it offers us two more chances to draw an SGL!

 

[sirdanilot]

Also, we woouldn't then need to send the Music tech to you- further hiding the extent of our cooperation.

Bolded are spelling mistakes or typos. Actually, I'm not sure about the second one, but I just bolded it aswell so you can decide wether that's correct or not.

Otherwise, seems like a very good letter to me!

Why would we even consider to build the TOE for FREE for, uhm, free? I consider that an entirely different subject which has nothing to do with us being able to build Bach. The 150 gold, or maybe a little bit more, is more than enough for them.

edit: Oh, a very important thing, please don't send that untill GONG has confirmed they take option C. And then just edit in the exact quote what GONG said us in the quote part, and send it

Of course, if gong chooses another option, we'll have to throw this excellent letter into the garbage can and start over again...

 

[Niklas]

Yeah, I too think we should build ToE, but not as compensation for this. I also agree with cubsfan, the guy makes us look very guilty, even if we aren't.

 

[zyxy]

I would prefer not to give out gold: we need it and FREE is going fast enough as it is. A promise to build ToE is perhaps better, and might even be overpayment...

Do we really like deal C btw? If this gets in place, we obviously need some quick deals with BABE and SABER on selling Invention, before GONG does. Otherwise they end up making money from our research...

 

[donsig]

C is good if we want to build Bach's. I don't think we'd be paying gold, would we? I thought we'd structure it so GONG gives us money as part of C and then we turn around and hand that gold to FREE so we can have the undisputed right to build Bach's.

As for ToE, I'm not against us building it - I just think we should be compensated properly (in MAAP III) for doing it instead of paying FREE to let us build it.

 

[General_W]

Note: it was never my intention to send that proposed letter.
My intention was exclusively to kick start discussion on option C, which I knew would be the most controversial option, should GONG choose it.

So no one panic about me sending it… I realize that GONG hasn't agreed to anything yet

@Donsig – we will NOT be getting any gold, should GONG choose option C. It's a pretty fair swap of beakers, straight across… and when you combine that with their promise to NOT build Bach… it's actually a very good deal for us. I can't believe they're even seriously thinking about option C… let alone if we try to get gold from them on it also.

@zyxy – I agree. We should move quickly to try to sell Invention to BABE and Saber if GONG chooses option C… and I think we should try to sell Invention at crazy low prices to be sure we undercut any deals that GONG offers them. I'd propose 400 gold (1/3 the monopoly beaker cost) or "100 gold and your world map" to both teams. Thoughts on that?

@ Niklas and Cubsfan – ok, ok! The "" face is out!

@sirdanilot – right on both counts. Thanks!

Regarding the Theory of Evolution… Obviously, since I proposed the idea, I think there's merit to us offering to build it for the Alliance. I don't think offering the 2 bonus techs without compensation is unreasonable… but maybe we could just offer to only count 1 of the techs? The problem with this idea is that it's just messy. Messy to explain, messy to balance. I'd love to hear any more concrete proposals that people have on how to balance & explain this one.

Also, not to open a can of worms, but let's not forget that we've got the Hoover Dam wonder hanging out there in Industrial Age. How do you compensate the other team for losing that one? I don't know that Hoover really belongs in this discussion – I just wanted to mention it in case it sparks a brilliant idea in someone's head.

So.. IF IF IF – and only if – GONG agrees to option C, here are two optional responses to FREE:

FREEsponse Option Gold:

Spoiler :

Dear FREE allies,

We just received this back from GONG:

Not really! This is an Example! "We'd like option C"

We're really surprised that they would choose this option, but we think it's very good news for our alliance!

First of all – this thwarts a trade between BABE and GONG. Not only does our alliance profit from a deal that BABE/GONG almost certainly would have done anyway, but there's a decent chance that BABE will be really annoyed and we can drive a wedge between them.

Secondly, we divert GONG off to researching a tech that doesn't do them any good, and doesn't get them any closer to the Industrial Ages… allowing us to expand our lead.


Now – since we can't share Bach's Cathedral – we'd like to propose that The Council gift 150 gold to FREE for the right to build Bach's if we can find a place to spare the 600 shields!
This will help us run a higher science rate (slightly less luxury slider needed) which certainly helps both of us in the alliance. Also, we wouldn't then need to send you the Music tech - further hiding the extent of our cooperation.

What do you think?

Your Brothers in Bluish,
General_W, speaking with the voice of The Council

FREEsponse Option ToE:

Spoiler :

Dear FREE allies,

We just received this back from GONG:

Not really! This is an Example! "We'd like option C"

We're really surprised that they would choose this option, but we think it's very good news for our alliance!

First of all – this thwarts a trade between BABE and GONG. Not only does our alliance profit from a deal that BABE/GONG almost certainly would have done anyway, but there's a decent chance that BABE will be really annoyed and we can drive a wedge between them.

Secondly, we divert GONG off to researching a tech that doesn't do them any good, and doesn't get them any closer to the Industrial Ages… allowing us to expand our lead.


Now – since we can't share Bach's Cathedral – we'd like to propose a semi-crazy idea to balance it out.
What if we agreed, as a part of a MAPP III deal, that The Council will take on the duty of building the 600 shield Theory of Evolution, then sharing the 2 bonus techs with FREE independent of whatever MAAP III tech arrangement we work out. FREE would save 600 shields and still enjoy the benefit of two free techs without having to match them with any beakers in trade.

What do you think?

Your Brothers in Bluish,
General_W, speaking with the voice of The Council

About the time we finally reach a consensus on this, you know GONG is just going to come back and agree to Option A… or nothing at all!

Further thoughts, ideas?

 

[cubsfan6506]

Get rid of the exclamation point after the 600 gold bit. It has the same effect.

 

[tomasjj]

Ok, I admit it. You have lost me on this topic.

 

[zyxy]

To me, ToE is really just worth 600(?) shields, not two techs. In the early IA, there is little use for shields, as our infra should be finished by then, and the defense situation should have become easier if anything until the arrival of bombers/marines.
So IMO building ToE is not a high price for Bach's. Of course, there's no need to mention this to FREE: it would be much better if they think that ToE is really worth two expensive techs. Kuningas will of course know better if he's still around, but the others may be fooled. If they believe us, we might get something more than just the right to Bach's, though I'm not sure what to ask for...

There is a great advantage to building ToE: the team that builds it will be first to Electronics and therefore be in position to build the Dam. I cannot think of any proper compensation for the Dam, its power is so huge. The only thing would be the Internet, but we may need that as well, to kick off our GA...
Perhaps we can "forget" the Dam, but FREE will probably bring it up for MAAP 3.

All in all, I would very much prefer to build ToE as "compensation" for Bach's, rather than give gold.

If we get Bach's we should probably reconsider Sistine's, as we may not need it anymore.

 

[General_W]

Excellent Analysis.
That settles it in my mind. I'd also vote for the ToE option - if we get to choose.
Now where's GONG?!?

Re: Hoover... maybe the best plan is to just leave that up to a race - making our building of ToE very important no matter what, so that we can time things perfectly?

 

[General_W]

Proposal for immediate release to GONG:

Dear GONG,

I'm afraid we can't wait much longer to hear your response. The wheels of state must grind on without you I'm afraid!

Please respond ASAP on if you have any interest in a trade for Invention, or prepare to find yourselves with knowledge of Education squirreled away in the false bottoms of those beer cans your spies smuggle things around in.

Hopefully there's still time to work something out.
If not, we'll take your continued silence as an answer.

All the Best,
Your friends across the pond…
General_W, speaking with the voice of The Council

EDIT: SENT to GONG gmail
And BCCd to FREE

Thoughts?

 

[Paul#42]

I like it. Nice sloppy words.

 

[zyxy]

Good letter!
We're probably not really interested in this anymore anyway, so maybe we should not wait long. Astro could be of some use to us when FREE gets it.

 

[General_W]

Not much activity here, but as zyxy noted, we're probably rapidly running out of interest in this.
I'm sending it off now!



EDIT: and sent a copy to FREE as well.