Because that post only has 7 techs in it not the 26 new positions that you posted in the post I linked to.
Why would I only want 7 new techs? And I really don't care for the dead end religion giving techs to have a path after them either. 1 or 2 maybe for futuristic religions that evolve /spring from an original one.
Geewhiz just stick a knife in me and twist it a few turns why don't you.
Because that post only has 7 techs in it not the 26 new positions that you posted in the post I linked to.
Why would I only want 7 new techs? And I really don't care for the dead end religion giving techs to have a path after them either. 1 or 2 maybe for futuristic religions that evolve /spring from an original one.
Geewhiz just stick a knife in me and twist it a few turns why don't you.
He has it like 3 spoilers in. Top Spoiler -> Spoiler -> Spoiler -> Then my quote and then my Spoiler. The 7 listed at the bottom cannot be changed without the first list I posted.
It has been a very long and hot day today. 12 and 1/2 hours out in the 100*F+ heat. I'm a bit toasted and cranky, sorry. And I'm On Call to boot. <sigh>
the tech virtual reallity obsoletes a lot of sports buildings. you loses a lot of health bonus in every city. players would avoid this technology as long as possible, because the e-bank will never compensate the loses of health.
give the tech maybe +5 health in all cities. this seems alot but in comparison to the bonuses of the obsolete buildings its nothing.
i mean the only reason why a building goes obsolete is, that more modern versions of it exist, which isnt the case in virtual reality.
the tech aquaculture obsoletes the fishing buildings. Yes you get in exchange bonuses for the improvement fishing boats, beacons an lighthouses and you can build the fish farms. But you lose the resources rare fish and shelfish. (the producing buildings go obsolete)
the coastal fish farm could produces this recources maybe.
it doesent make sence to lose an recource if you get an technology that should make its production simpler
the tech cloning obsoletes the animal farm buildings. you loose food and gold. the idea behind it makes sense why breed an animal if you could simple clone the meat. but you loose the resource carcas which enables the slaughterhouse, which enables the butchery and so on. the cloning factory could produce a little bit of food and carcas. why should a cloning factory should just produce human clones if the technology implies that you could clone everything?
the tech vertical farming obsoltes the farm buildings, which makes sence bacause you can build the farm sraper. But you loose access to fruit vegetable and grain. maybe the farm scraper can produce the three resources.
Three errors need to be addressed in the tech tree
1. Luner . . . is on top of another tech???
2. Broken lines means something wrong in that area of tech tree
3. Same as 2.
Here is something I first noticed when I created my tech tree spreadsheets, but actually showed up in a game I am playing and I think needs to be changed. This is probably going to be a little long, so bear with me.
I think the prerequisites for Civil Service and Feudalism need some modification. I have a game going right now (Giant size, PerfectWorld2 script, current difficulty Emperor [Flexible Difficulty, began at Noble], Snail speed) where I was able to use a Great Prophet to lightbulb Civil Service and enter the Medieval Era around 3400 BC. I still had a dozen Classical Era techs showing on the list to research, including moderately basic ones like City Planning, Combat Sports, and Mounted Archery. The problem is that the prerequisites for Civil Service and Feudalism come too early in the preceding era.
Here is a breakdown of the Classical Era by "level". This is something I came up with to look at prerequisites. The techs that have "Leads to the X Era" are level-1; the techs that require any level-1 tech are level-2, and so on. (Spoiler box so as to make this post not look too long.) From this, I can see how roughly how easy it is to beeline to a particular tech. If you want to see the entire tech tree broken down this way, look for my posting in the Modder's Documentation sticky thread.
Spoiler:
Classical-1 (require only Prehistoric or Ancient techs as prerequisites)
Alphabet
Athletics
Cloud Patterns
Currency
Glass Blowing
Horse Breeding
Mathematics
Meditation
Monarchy
Ship Building
Classical-2 (requires at least one Classical-1 tech to research)
Aristocracy
Calendar
Code of Laws
Combat Sports
Construction
Geometry
Iron Working
Literature
Mounted Archery
Road Building
Classical-3 (requires at least one Classical-2 tech to research)
Ancient Ballistics
Ancient Medicine
Astrology
Calligraphy
City Planning
Concrete
Democracy
Meritocracy
Spice Trade
Stirrup
Vassalage
Classical-4 (requires at least one Classical-3 tech to research)
Aesthetics
Canal Systems
Drug Trade
Insurance
Philosophy
Siege Warfare
Classical-5 (requires at least one Classical-4 tech to research)
Drama
Floristry
Machinery
Mosaic Working
Sanitation
Smithing
Weather Lore
Classical-6 (requires at least one Classical-5 tech to research)
Music
Paved Roads
Poetry
The problem with the prerequisites for Civil Service and Feudalism is that instead of being at the end of the Classical Era, they are in the middle. You can reach Civil Service with the following combination:
Mathematics (Classical-1)
Meritocracy (Classical-3)
Likewise, Feudalism is reachable with:
Military Training (Ancient Era)
Code of Laws (Classical-2)
City Planning (Classical-3)
Vassalage (Classical-3)
While adjusting research times may help (right now, I have a few Classical techs with <10 turns research time and Usury at 22 turns), in combination with any Free Technology (Great Person, Valley of the Kings -- there is no pressure to build it, so I usually put it off until just before the Sphinx goes obsolete at Architecture), it is possible to jump into the Medieval Era extremely early, which I don't think is intended and doesn't match most of the other eras.
Also, I'm not really sure I understand the necessity of the Military Training and City Planning prerequisites on Feudalism. The problem I have with Military Training -> Feudalism is that this line jumps over an entire era. I think two-era jumps are not a good idea, because you can skip a particular technology for a long time if you don't need it for another prerequisite. (Naval Aviation is a big example, because it isn't required for anything except the Galactic-Era Megastructure Engineering.) The other technologies that Military Training leads into are Athletics (- Combat Sports - Drama/Martial Arts/Tournaments) and Horse Breeding (-Mounted Archery/Cavalry Tactics and -Stirrup/Armored Cavalry). These are both pretty specialized lines, and I would argue to add Military Training to Siege Warfare to better emphasize its importance.
City Planning doesn't seem to have much to do with Feudalism, and I think it may be a holdover from AND. We recently added the City Planning - Canal Systems - Engineering line, and Engineering is a very important Medieval tech, so I am not sure it is so important that City Planning is a prerequisite for Feudalism.
This package of changes would fix the jump problem and clear up the other issues I mentioned. Changes are in bold.
Altered Techs Civil Service
Required Techs: Meritocracy AND (Feudalism OR Paved Roads OR Sanitation)
Siege Warfare
Required Techs: Ancient Ballistics AND Chariotry AND Iron Working AND Military Training
Vassalage
Required Techs: Aristocracy AND Siege Warfare
Feudalism
Required Techs: Code of Laws AND Vassalage
Explanation
Civil Service: I picked Paved Roads or Sanitation to reflect growing urbanization and public works. Paved Roads is Classical-6; Sanitation is Classical-5. Either of these would push Civil Service into a tie with the end of the Classical Era. Mathematics becomes redundant with this change (Mathematics - Geometry - Aesthetics - Mosaic Working - Paved Roads; Mathematics - Construction - Canal Systems - Sanitation; Mathematics - Construction - Ancient Ballistics - Siege Warfare - Vassalage - Feudalism).
Siege Warfare: I moved Military Training here. I think you would need some level of military organization to maintain the forces necessary for a siege.
Vassalage: Adding Siege Warfare pushes this technology from Classical-3 to Classical-5. I think Siege Warfare represents a step in the complexity of warfare that leads to the necessity of vassals for military service. I also think Vassalage needs some second tech prerequisite other than Aristocracy.
Feudalism: I removed City Planning because it doesn't seem necessary. Military Training would be required for Siege Warfare and so would be redundant to keep on Feudalism as well. Feudalism would be equivalent to a Classical-6 with the change to Vassalage. Another possibility would be to move Smithing from Armor Crafting to Feudalism. I considered that change but I think pushing up Vassalage (and Feudalism along with it) is enough.
Do any of you agree? Do you think this is a problem?
I feel siege warfare comes fairly late, since to get it you both iron working, construction, and the entire naval techline (naval warface, piracy, seafaring, ship building), which you usually don't need to get that early. So I wouldn't put it as a prereg for vassalage.
Is there any real benefit to advancing eras in C2C anyway? Other than minor buff to Nazca Lines?
I feel siege warfare comes fairly late, since to get it you both iron working, construction, and the entire naval techline (naval warface, piracy, seafaring, ship building), which you usually don't need to get that early. So I wouldn't put it as a prereg for vassalage.
What I am trying to do is push Vassalage later into the Classical Era, so that you can't get to Feudalism too early. Pushing a technology deeper also pushes its AND requirements along with it. The Ship Building prerequisite on Ancient Ballistics has also been a bit of a question mark for me, but it's not that strange.
There are other ways to force Feudalism to come a little later, but forcing Vassalage later seemed like it would not cause too much disruption.
Not really, although we have discussed a Cultural Heritage system where you would be able to build your own culture. I think that would be era-specific.
I also think it breaks verisimilitude if you can short-circuit most of an era. The general rule is that the starting technologies of one era require the last technologies of the previous, not technologies from the middle of the era.
I actually took some time to look over what you suggested there and I personally think it was very well thought out. I had not consciously noted the problem, but something about the classical era had been nagging at me and I think you nailed most of it on the head.
I also think it breaks verisimilitude if you can short-circuit most of an era. The general rule is that the starting technologies of one era require the last technologies of the previous, not technologies from the middle of the era.
I totally agree with this statement. It is mostly confined to the Ancient and Classical Eras, but I think that it makes the early-mid game progession a bit messed up. I had an idea which had a 'starter tech' for each era, which required, through prerequsites, most of the techs from the previous era (religion founding and a few others excluded). I don't think now that this is the best idea, and I look forward to seeing your suggestions on the matter.
Just so you know strategyonly assigned MrAzure to me. While I have given him mostly free range over the later eras I still must approve any suggestions for new tech changes that you post. This is important since there are some things MrAzure might not know about that I do. Reason why something is the way it is. This is why I have given him mostly free range when it comes to the later techs since there is not much set up there and not much he can break either. He has some awesome ideas and can very much relate to his creative nature when you are free to do what you want.
I totally agree with this statement. It is mostly confined to the Ancient and Classical Eras, but I think that it makes the early-mid game progession a bit messed up. I had an idea which had a 'starter tech' for each era, which required, through prerequsites, most of the techs from the previous era (religion founding and a few others excluded). I don't think now that this is the best idea, and I look forward to seeing your suggestions on the matter.
There are four technologies that I notice serve as bottleneck techs:
Sedentary Lifestyle
Education
Steam Power
Industrialism
There are a couple other transitions between eras that have the capability to come earlier than expected, but most are pretty good.
Prehistoric-Ancient is fine because Sedentary Lifestyle requires technologies from almost the very end of the Prehistoric Era.
Ancient-Classical has some issues with the technologies that come directly off of Writing.
Classical-Medieval is what I already wrote up.
Medieval-Renaissance is fine because EVERYTHING goes through Education, which is pretty close to the end of the Medieval.
Renaissance-Industrial needs to have Steam Power moved up just a little. (I can write this up if you are interested).
Industrial-Modern has some slight issues with with the Modern Era techs that come off Electronics.
Modern-Transhuman is fine due to a reliance on Cloud Computing/Knowledge Management for most of the prerequsities for the Transhuman Era.
Transhuman-Galactic has a small short-circuit with the technologies that come directly off Nanoelectronics, but there has not yet been much done with the Galactic Era and that can wait for the revamp.
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And I really don't care for the dead end religion giving techs to have a path after them either. 
1 or 2 maybe for futuristic religions that evolve /spring from an original one.
